Sunday, October 10, 2010

Re: Greyhawk Human Skill Sets

Re: [greytalk] Greyhawk Human Skill Sets
Friday, April 20, 2007 5:53 PM
From: "Tom Roberts" Add sender to Contacts

Might this be of help, from Basiliv back in mid Nov of 05...

Not sure if anybody else is interested in this, but I've finally completed my adjustments to Erik Mona's "Regional Feats of Greyhawk" for the 576 timeline.

Most of the changes made were inspired by Aaron Divinsky's work on this same issue, so a huge thanks to Aaron. I changed several of his ideas, but I used more of them than not. One thing Aaron did that I really liked was to differentiate nations we might naturally lump together, such as the Ulek and Urnst states. I added differences between the wood and wild elves, and between the various Thillonrian Barbarians.

Aaron added (and I kept) several feats from the FR setting books, namely:
- Bullheaded: FR Campaign Setting
- Artist: FR Campaign Setting
- Cosmopolitan: FR Campaign Setting
- Discipline: FR Campaign Setting
- Forester: FR Campaign Setting
- Militia: FR Campaign Setting
- Stormheart: Player's Guide to Faerun
- Swift & Silent: Player's Guide to Faerun
- Thug: FR Campaign Setting

So here's my list. For more info on the original articles, see Dragon
issues 315 & 319.


Almor, Prelacy of
Border Watch, Noble Soul, Well Read, World Weary
Elemental Focus, Horselore, Jinnbond, Tongue of Mouqol
Bandit Kingdoms
Badge of Bondage, Blooded, Jungle Fighter, Orc Blooded, Raider's Spirit, Rapscallion
Blooded, Border Watch, Mercantile Background, Mercenary Background, Tongue of Mouqol
Blackmoorian Rhymes, Expert Dungeoneer, Lays of the Northern Adepts, Wastri's Blessing
Bone March
Blooded, Landless Nobility, Orc Blooded, Raiders Spirit, World Weary
Bright lands
Blooded, Desert Fighter, Lore of the Ur-Flan, Vathrin Stigmata
Companion Guard Style, Ehlonnas Way, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Well Read
Dwarf, hill
Bullheaded, Dwarflore, Expert Dungeoneer, Mercantile Background, Mercenary Background, Mountain Fighter
Dwarf, mountain
Bullheaded, Deepseer, Dwarflore, Expert Dungeoneer, Mercantile Background, Mountain Fighter
Cosmopolitan, Mercantile Background, Rapscallion, Rhennlore, Well Read
Great Fervor, Mercantile Background, Spirit of the Sea, Well Read
Elf, gray
Companion Guard Style, Elflore, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Tested, Well Read
Elf, high
Ehlonnas Way, Elflore, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Tested, Well Read
Elf, valley
Defensive Expert, Elflore, Gnomelore, Mountain Fighter
Elf, wild
Ehlonnas Way, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Forester, Tested
Elf, wood
Driftwalker, Ehlonnas Way, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Tested
Badge of Bondage, Horselore, Lays of the Northern Adepts, Lore of the Ur-Flan
Frost Barbarians
Driftwalker, Mountain Fighter, Raiders Spirit, Troll Blooded, Vatuns Touch
Blooded, Border Watch, Exercises of Arnd, Noble Soul, Rustic Charm, Well Read
Blooded, Border Watch, Giantkiller, Mountain Fighter
Gnome, deep
Deepseer, Expert Dungeoneer, Mercantile Background, Noble Soul
Gnome, rock
Gnomelore, Mercantile Background, Rapscallion, Rustic Charm
Gran March
Blooded, Border Watch, Born Follower, Mercantile Background
Great Kingdom
Badge of Bondage, Celestial Scion, Fiendsign, World Weary
Expert Dungeoneer, Fiendsign, Greyhawk Method, Mercantile Background, Rhennlore, Well Read, Zagygs Favor
Elflore, Noble Soul, Rapscallion, Well Traveled
Badge of Bondage, Mercenary Background, Raiders Spirit, Rapscallion
Halfling Lore, Mercantile Background, Noble Soul, Well Traveled
Halfling, stout
Deepseer, Halfling Lore, Mercantile Background, Well Traveled
Halfling, tallfellow
Elflore, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Halfling Lore, Well Traveled
Border Watch, Ehlonnas Way, Elflore, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Forester, Mercantile Background
Horned Society
Fiendsign, Great Fervor, Swift & Silent, Thug
Ice Barbarians
Driftwalker, Mountain Fighter, Raiders Spirit, Stormheart, Vatuns Touch
Blooded, Border Watch, Defensive Expert, Militia
Border Watch, Defensive Expert, Dwarflore, Mercantile Background, Mountain Fighter, Well Read
Badge of Bondage, Blooded, Fiendsign, Orc Blooded, Raiders Spirit
Giantkiller, Rustic Charm, Silent Method, Wastri's Blessing, Well Read
Badge of Bondage, Blooded, Border Watch, Mercantile Background, Tongue of Mouqol
Lordship of the Isles
Badge of Bondage, Jungle fighter, Mercantile Background, Spirit of the Sea, Well Read
Medegia, See of
Celestial Scion, Fiendsign, Great Fervor, Well Read
North Province
Badge of Bondage, Celestial Scion, Fiendsign, Orc Blooded
Blooded, Border Watch, Exercises of Arnd, Rustic Charm, Sagacious Method, Well Read
Blooded, Born follower, Exercises of Arnd, Noble Soul
Atlan's Mark, Badge of Bondage, Jungle fighter, Raider's Spirit
Blooded, Mercantile Background, Stormheart, World Weary
Pale, Theocracy of
Born follower, Great Fervor, Noble Soul, Troll Blooded
Bareback Soul, Blooded, Horselore, Mercenary Background, Raider's Spirit
Driftwalker, Fiendsign, Mercenary Background, Mountain fighter
Badge of Bondage, Blooded, Mountain fighter, Orc Blooded, Raider's Spirit, World Weary
Border Watch, Exercises of Arnd, Mountain fighter, Vatun's Touch
Rel Astra
Celestial Scion, Fiendsign, Mercantile Background, Nexus Method, Well Read
Rapscallion, Rhennlore, Second Sight, Well Traveled
Rovers of the Barrens
Bareback Soul, Blooded, Horselore, Raider's Spirit, World Weary
Scarlet Brotherhood
Badge of Bondage, Great Fervor, Jungle fighter, Spirit of the Sea
Sea Barons
Badge of Bondage, Mercantile Background, Rapscallion, Spirit of the Sea
Sea Princes, Hold of the
Badge of Bondage, Blooded, Jungle Fighter, Spirit of the Sea, Wastri's Blessing
Shield lands
Blooded, Border Watch, Defensive Expert, Noble Soul
Snow Barbarians
Driftwalker, Mountain fighter, Raider's Spirit, Stormheart, Vatun's Touch
South Province (Ahlissa)
Badge of Bondage, Celestial Scion, Mercantile Background, Rustic Charm, Well Read, World Weary
Spindrift Isles
Elflore, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Spirit of the Sea, Well Read
Blooded, Border Watch, Giantkiller, Mountain fighter
Stonefist, Hold of
Driftwalker, Mercenary Background, Mountain fighter, Orc Blooded, Raider's Spirit, Vatun's Touch
Blood of Kord, Heir of Lendore, Pureblooded Suel, Well Read
Border Watch, Defensive Expert, Elflore, Rustic Charm, Wastri's Blessing
Tenh, Duchy of
Blooded, Border Watch, Mercenary Background, World Weary
Tiger Nomads
Badge of Bondage, Bareback Soul, Horselore, Raider's Spirit
Great Fervor, Mercantile Background, Mercenary Background, Mountain Fighter
Ulek, County of
Gnomelore, Halfling Lore, Mercantile Background, Noble Soul
Ulek, Duchy of
Elflore, Mercantile Background, Mountain Fighter, Noble Soul
Ulek, Principality of
Dwarflore, Landless Nobility, Mercantile Background, Mountain Fighter
Bareback Soul, Fiendsign, Mercenary Background, Mountain fighter, Orc Blooded, Raider's Spirit
Urnst, County of
Mercantile Background, Rapscallion, Rustic Charm, Well Read
Urnst, Duchy of
Mercantile Background, Mountain fighter, Rapscallion, Rustic Charm
Valley of the Mage
Defensive Expert, Mountain fighter, Shadowbound, Well Read
Great Fervor, Noble Soul, Rustic Charm, Well Read
Gnomelore, Great Fervor, Elflore, Mercantile Background, Well Read
Wild Coast
Badge of Bondage, Blooded, Rapscallion, Spirit of the Sea
Wolf Nomads
Bareback Soul, Blooded, Horselore, Raider's Spirit
Blooded, Defensive Expert, Militia, Mountain fighter, Noble Soul
Badge of Bondage, Orc Blooded, Spirit of the Sea, Well Read

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Weber"
To: ; "Vest III, Robert W"
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: [greytalk] Greyhawk Human Skill Sets

> From: "Vest III, Robert W"
> >A few years back in Dragon, Erik Mona had two articles (IIRC, one was in
> >the Dark Sun issue, & another was in the first Campaign Classics issue,
> >which had Strahd on the cover) featuring Greyhawk-specific feats, many
> >of which had a racial or national focus.
> I have those in PDF (OCR) format on my hard drive for whenever I get a
> chance to run a GH campaign again.

HackMoor XVIII - Conclusion of the Palace of the Vampire Queen

HackMoor XVIII - Conclusion of the Palace of Vampire Queen
Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:11 AM
From: "Tracy Johnson" Add sender to Contacts

Cast of Characters:

Absalon: A Human Enchanter
St. George: A Human Defender of Heironious
Jon: A Human Doobie Friar of Heironeous
Thor: Human Captain
Arioch: A Half-Elven Male Knight of the Shifting Sands
Sreighin Thorn: Pixie Sprite Sigil of Primus (Sidekick of Arioch)
Lace: Drow Fingersmith (Female Albino with Male Pattern Baldness)
Grumpy: Human Altar-Boy of Loviatar
Lucius: High-Elf Bravo
Bill: Veteran (recently deceased, but corrected.)
Crystal Kross - Human Mortician and several Zombies

This report covers several sessions.

Because the Blackmoor area isn't canon Greyhawk I'm more free to make up stuff. The timeline is per the DA1 modules, but I use Arneson's map.

The party that stayed behind from the previous session waited a sufficiently long
time to ensure that whatever was going to happen had completed. Emerging from
their hiding place in Room 16 they found the hallway empty. They take the long
way around to get to the next staircase.

(To fit the time line, this is the time the new Vampire recruited Party members are coming up the stairs. Going the short way opposite the party, they check out
where the party was hiding and find them not. Meanwhile the main party is going
down the stairs and close the soundproof doors behind them.)

Seeing the Hallway unguarded and armed with the Player maps, they set their two
strongest characters at the lead, taking no chances to make a beeline for the
lowest level. They whack the few Orc guards at the bottom of the stairs from
Level 2 to 3. To their credit, the guards were careless for their own safety and
bang the gong alarm, dying at the only stroke.

The Ghouls that populate the immediate vicinity will pop out two rounds later from
a nearby room. They are told of scrambling footsteps coming from beyond
double-doors. Not wanting to deal with threats on this level, they take a left
turn and close the door behind them. Finding themselves in another short hallway,
they duck behind another door, and get spat several times by a Giant Slug.*

* This is OD&D, so it is not unusual the type of random monsters they threw in for
no apparent reason.

Frying the slug with some fire-based solution (I forget if it was a spell or just
oil,) they head through two double doors to a 'V' intersection with a chest there.
Not resisting temptation, they open it only to be a attacked by a Wight. The
lead character fends off a close call attack while another Wight pops out the next
round. The smartest one of the Players gathering the hint, makes a dive for the
chest and closes the lid, thus making the Wights disappear. Whew! They thought
they would have to at least fight the remaining Wights.

Backing out of that corridor, the party skirts the edge of this level and their
Elf thief detects the secret passage to the next level en passant.

This time they were mindful of the Gnoll Guards and use a ruse to trick them so
they can't sound another alarm. Past that, they pause in the room with the
Lammasu statue but decline to investigate and continue on, skipping all doors to
the next staircase. There they encounter 6 main Vampire Guards and finally take
some hits. It took some serious spell casting (and aim) by Absalon with his Magic
Missiles of Skewering.

(Forgetting Vampire combat parameters, I only docked the players one experience
level when hit. When my error was noted to the other players next session, I
decided to let it go rather than backtrack the experience loss.)

It was after this skirmish that Players realized Vampires can only be hit with
Magical Weapons. They reallocated hoarded weapons accordingly.

Taking the obvious route on the map on the last level, they head for the BIG ROOM,
pausing to take in scenery afforded by passing doors. Behind door #6 they run
into a Flesh Golem, so taking a cue from an old movie they set him alight with
some of their oil and leave the area, where cries of "Fire, ... Bad!" fade in the

(In the time line the Vampire Recruited party members on Level 1 get the alarm and
head back to this room. I roll a 20 sider and it tops at 16, I start decrementing
that number of 1 minute rounds it will take to get here.)

Lastly, they make it to the BIG ROOM, crash the door down and defeat the next six
Vampires using hand to hand combat and the last of Absalon's Magic Missiles and
their Wand of Fire from Castle Amber. Their superior armor class let the higher
members of the party avoid hits, but Lucius takes a hit and goes to -1 and dies.

The 20 sider is down to 9.

Worrying about Lucius later, the party goes in to the next room with 4 Vampires
and uses the last of their Scatterblast Fireballs to eliminate them.

The 20 sider is down to 5.

In the next room the party sees a Female Vampire reclining across a gold plated
coffin with a slight smile on her face. The party exhausted, decides to take a
breather and backs out. Wondering what else to do, they discover another secret
door behind them and retreats in there and close the door behind them. SUCCESS!
This is the Dungeon's treasure room. Absalon, using much needed time to
rememorizes lower level spells, has the party block the door and takes a rest
while he studies.

The 20 sider is down to 0 and the Vampire Recruit reinforcements arrive.

Taking stock of the treasure room, they find a pile of money of course, a Ring of
Undead Utilities (the closest thing in Hackmaster to the original Ring of Undead
Control,) a Scarab of Death, Eyes of Charming, and one of their goals, the Pinball
Machine of Wishes (Saonuihun's Speeding Sphere Game from the Book of Wondrous

Meanwhile on the other side of the door, entrapment bars had slid down to keep the
intruders in the Treasure Room (killing one reinforcement Gnoll leaning against
the wall.) This worked out to the advantage of the Main Party. Thor on the other
side of it took several minutes to Break the Bars so he could attack his own party
on the other side.

The Pinball Machine has been recently refurbished as it had been taken by Baylor
Island's Mechanical Dwarfwerks for Maintenance so it ran in tip-top condition
without any of the usual adverse reactions. Waiting for the bars to be broken,
they had plenty of coins in the room so they decided to play. They got as far
Absalon memorizing 3 spells and gaining Two Wishes when they decide to sortie.
The first wish de-webs the Player from the Machine.

As soon as the bars were almost broken through, Grumpy 'warns' the enemy to leave
the room or die. The Thralled party members take the hint and back out. The
party fireballs the next room and crisps most anything left. Next, Grumpy uses
the Ring of Undead Control, takes control of the Ghoul reinforcements and has them
turn about and fight the 'living' reinforcements. Both sides cancel each other
out with low level monsters leaving the Thralls and the remaining true Vampires.

Using the Ring of Undead Utilities again Grumpy takes control of the Vampires and
uses the 2nd Wish to de-Thrall the party members. Thus armed, he storms into the
room with the Lady Vampire. This vampire, seeing which way the wind is blowing
simply says, "Hey, I'm just the decoy! The Real Vampire Queen is in the next room
behind another secret door."

Though the next secret door they find the Vampire Queen. She turns out to be a
wuss and attempts to flee in bat form. A lucky swat knocks her silly to the floor
and she is dispatched without further ado, wooden stakes, decapitation, and
whatever else is required.

Obviously, there will be much Experience Awarded for this event. There is still
stuff in the Palace that needs to be cleaned up. The party has to decide to do
this or let the Dwarves finish the job when they re-occupy the Palace.

-- BT

Tracy Johnson
Justin Thyme Productions
Ye olde free telnet games at:

RE: Sorta Off-Topic: Political Intrigue?

RE: [greytalk] Sorta Off-topic: Political Intrigue?
Wednesday, August 8, 2007 1:25 PM
From: "Karl White" Add sender to Contacts

You may want to look at Atlas Games’ Dynasties and Demagogues sourcebook. It contains a lot of material about creating and running political adventures and campaigns.

In the last campaign I ran, ToEE and beyond that started from 1st level, I mapped out the main protagonists and power groups in advance. This included:

· The deities
· The leaders of the temple
· The power groups in Hommlet and Nulb
· The wider Verbobonc power groups and the regional groups.

Having read through the module several times I started to ask how and why the leaders had the powerful magic items they had, how they interacted with each other, what their operational responsibilities and reporting lines were, any relationships and so on and so forth. I found that once I started asking questions and providing answers, that the richness of the setting increased dramatically.

In the end I had about 15 different power groups that the party were interacting with either directly or indirectly in a way that shaped events in the game. In many cases an event occurred that the party had no knowledge of and would not come directly into play but would affect the campaign.

For example The bandit group at the start were concentrating on attacking Elven caravans rather than human ones. This was due to their leader’s wish to have Celene’s relations with Verbobonc sour and to close the border. The humans, not losing many caravans did not put a great deal of effort into stopping them. Meanwhile the spy leader who reports to the Temple is aware that the caravans he is identifying as good targets are not always being taken, whilst more well defended, lower value targets are being targeted. He knows another intelligence agency must be at work to pick the targets and would normally think that there is a subversive element in the Temple and root it out, but he is also aware that somebody else has been promoted and has responsiblity for recruiting for the temple, which is a role he used to be tasked with. He is now unsure of his position and is wondering if he has disappointed his masters. By the party driving off/capturing/killing the Bandit leader, the trade caravans resume their normal targeting and the relations between Celene and Verbobonc resume as Verbobonc takes a greater interest in the loss of its caravans.

The party found that they had more trouble from the good factions than the evil. They broke a Gnomish Law (in my campaign I had Verbobonc originally owned by the Gnomes and thus the laws are derived from Gnomish Law) and the St Cuthbertines were insisting the law was enforced whilst the Druids, rangers and state (through the wizard) were pleased the party had driven off the bandits and did not think that exiling them for something that was in their eyes merely a (serious) protocol mishap was the wisest course of action. Things were very tense for a while until the bandit leader killed the druid leader and the family of the rangers leader, then it got worse. The rangers went after the bandit leader thereby abandoning their post (it took many weeks to catch him and left the rangers weakened and in the Wild Coast) and the St Cuthbertines took control of the village so that the rule of law could be re-established. The party was exiled and the village was poorly defended and severe political in-fighting between the church, state and the Gnomes throughout Verbobonc occurred. Eventually leading to full Gnomish autonomy when the state found the only way to appease the church was to change some ‘out-dated Gnomish Laws’.

Why did the party have such an impact when they were only mid level? Look at the demographics of the state. With the Greyhawk demographics including population by level and class it turns out there are very few mid-level character classes and the party would be a significant resource for the state in its fight against the Temple. With the rangers gone, exiling the party would have left the Hommlet region very exposed to the now apparent Temple.

I guess my final point is, look at the background population, there may be fewer personalities than you would consider and the players can soon have a major impact if they are in the nation’s top 50 most powerful people

From: []
Sent: 07 August 2007 19:40
Subject: Re: [greytalk] Sorta Off-topic: Political Intrigue?

The level is flexible; for one group, they'll be somewhere between 7-10th (depending on where I put it in the campaign), for the other the level will be wide open because we'll roll up new characters just for this. The 7-10th level group is very familiar with my DMing style, the other group is not yet...although I could run them through some more standard fair if it's an advantage for the players to be familiar first.

My long-time players tend to like an overarching mystery, interspersed with fairly "standard" dungeon crawls, city adventures, or overland action. For an example of our usual style of play, here's a list of the adventures I strung together to get my PCs to 6th level, with an overarching mystery I described earlier, set in the original '83 boxed set:

- Intro to my amnesia/alternate Greyhawks campaign, starting in a cave south of Hommlet.
- Mad God's Key (Dungeon Adventure), changed to a cult of Orcus
- An altered version of Dungeon's "Shut-In", with a xvart culprit to lead to:
- An altered version of Mona's River of Blood, set in Verbobonc
- T1: Village of Hommlet
- Some overland travel to an oracle in Perrenland, then south through the Vesve for a small incursion into Delvenbrass, where a gate lead to:
- The City Beyond the Gate
- Returning from this adventure, the party is transported unknowingly to an alternate, FtA-era Oerth, where the overrun city of Chendl surprises them.
- Overland travel to Safeton, where eventually the party locates their secret contact. This shadow-dancer takes them to the Plane of Shadow, and eventually back to 576-era Oerth.
- They follow a priest of Iuz south across Woolly Bay, and I ran them through Stormwrack's "Shatterhull Isle"
- C1: Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan
- West to the base of the Hellfurnaces, where they discovered the lost Suloise city of Lov Ulos, which served as one end of the tunnels in:
- UK6: All That Glitters

The over-arching mystery was covered in more detail months ago, but a quick recap is that the PCs were brought here from the FtA-era 'Hawk, their memories wiped out, and now they're seeking the ochtycs (?sp)...they don't know if yet, but they used to be demigods, and the ochtycs will allow them to regain a portion of their power and eventually go after the Soul Husks to take Iuz down a notch.

Once the party reached the Sea of Dust (at the end of All That Glitters), we switched DMs, so that's where things currently stand. My next plan is some interaction with the Silent Ones of Keoland, some information-brokering with an agent of Evard, a trip through White Plume Mountain, and eventually the ToEE. At this point I haven't decided whether to make the Great Kingdom material before or after the ToEE.

On Mon Aug 6 17:03 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonzᬥz" sent:

What level will the characters start? Are the players experienced in general and with your DMing? Please describe your usual style of play / DMing.

MTG wrote:

Hi MTG (and kiddies),

Didn't really have any plans yet. I thought I'd try my hand at some general political intrigue adventures, then re-read Ivid for ideas. My group has swapped DMs for a while, so I've got a lot more down-time to work on this than I'd usually have. In the meantime, my plan was to read through Scott's South Province reports (sadly, I never had time to read them before -- sorry Scott!). I also thought about looking into the reviews of some Birthright adventures, but that's a guess on my part.

But in general, I was hoping for more guidance on the pacing of this type of adventure, interesting ways for PCs to use skills that might be unique to a political environment, etc. (that's why I thought it was off-topic). Plotting our the political entanglements isn't where I'm worried, it's running a new type of adventure and keeping it interesting for the players. But once I get this figured out, I'll be more than happy to share. :-)

Thanks again for your help!

~Jim (Basiliv)

On Fri Aug 3 20:23 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonz�lez" sent:

Jim and fellow GTers,

I apologize for not sending this email earlier as I'd hoped.

Jim, I suggest you provide a few more details. Where you base your initial campaign is important for helping us provide further suggestions.

For example, I've imagined a campaign based in North Province that deals with the ramifications of Grenell's machinations regarding the fall of Bone March, starting in one of the coastal towns, Bellport, for example, and developing the PCs' knowledge about Grenell's miscalculation / betrayal, along with the Iron Schism, as it plays out with the church armies of Hextor, that center of training for Hextor sohei (Arrowstrand?), and featuring the distaff death knight that Gary Holian detailed.

Alternatively, Scottenkainen has reported repeatedly on his campaigns in the South Province.

Do you get my drift? Share more of your ideas, so we can riff off yours.


Thursday, September 9, 2010

Re: Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk

Re: [greytalk] Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk
Sunday, October 7, 2007 2:55 AM
From: ""

Now that I've finished it, I'm recommending it even more. Great stuff.

Also, I just found a bunch of the maps available at higher resolutions on the Wizards site:

On Tue Oct 2 16:44 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonz�lez" sent:

Since I haven't read it stated here, I think all GH fans should purchase this product immediately.

Not only is it one of the only recent GH publications, it was, as Jim said, obviously produced with love and respect for the setting.

Because of that, I think GH fans will find it entertaining, interesting and inspirational regarding their own GH campaigns, regardless of what game system they use.

MTG wrote:

It's more reminiscent of Return to White Plume Mountain than, say, Return to the Keep on the Borderlands. What I mean is, it's set years after the original module, rather than just being a revamp/expansion on the original.

Expedition is more of a campaign, with story threads leading the PCs back & forth between the Free City (and the Green Dragon Inn) and the castle. It provides more of an overall plot and less of a catalogue of brief room summaries like the original. I really liked the original, and there's quite a bit of goodness in there that isn't covered in Expedition, but the areas it covers are more fleshed out and are tied to the otherside world better than Ruins was.

But as far as actually comparing the two, so far I think they've stayed fairly true to it. There are definitely several areas that are straight out of the original, but with some changes you might expect by advancing the clock by twenty years. I'm not quite done reading it yet (starting chapter 5 ou of 6 now), but I think the surprises it holds will be more value than the rehashing. Very obviously a product of love for the campaign setting. :-)

On Mon Sep 24 19:00 , "Michael Weber" sent:

Has anyone had the chance to compare this to WGR1, Greyhawk Ruins?

Savage Tide campaign -- session 1

[greytalk] Savage Tide campaign -- session 1
Monday, October 15, 2007 10:25 AM
From: "Scott"

While waiting for one friend to start his Expedition to Castle Greyhawk campaign, I have begun playing in another friend’s Savage Tide campaign. I will share my spoiler-ridden observations here.


The first session did not, from my perspective go well at all. Our DM had stressed how our live sessions were going to be strictly for adventuring and we were to do our role-playing on his messageboard. I understood from this that the campaign would then start with the standard dungeon crawl, so I brought my seven-year old son along to play, who always enjoys killing monsters, but few of the subtleties of gaming.

Instead, we were presented with a mystery to solve. All the guys loved seeing the handout, a hot portrait of our sponsor, Lady Vanderborne. The harbormaster, or rather, his right-hand man Vark, would not let her onto her own ship, the Blue Nixie, and she wanted to find out why. If it had been the ghost of Captain Redbeard keeping her off the ship, this could have been a Scooby-Doo mystery. We all split up to look for clues, with the plan of meeting back up two mornings later to compare notes. My character planned to pass himself off as one of Vanderborne’s creditors and interview the harbormaster about repossessing the ship, or at least touring it for an evaluation. To do this, my bard found employment with one of Sasserine’s moneylenders and gained a tabard and seal that identified himself as an employee, bought fancier clothes to complete a disguise, and filled out the required paperwork to see the harbormaster, but was dismissed with a “don’t call us, we’ll call you” comment. Meanwhile, my son was entertained with a barroom brawl where he got to kill someone. Almost more disturbing was how much he enjoyed having his character drink beer.

The real trouble for me started on the next player’s turn. Our DM was using home rules for social class, and one of the PCs was of unusually high birth. Where I had a long-term plan for getting on board the Blue Nixie, he just walked in with the other party members, bullied his way past the harbormaster, and got right onboard the ship. I had refused to come, believing their plan would fail and my plan would be needed as back-up. After all, our DM had given us an investigation. The direct approach seemed the wrong way to go about it. Turns out I was wrong – you really are meant to rush onto the ship and kill everyone aboard it as if the ship was a mini-dungeon. I missed out on everything. My son’s character hopped onboard a rowboat and made it out to the battle just in time to participate in the very end of it. The battles on the ship were laughably easy, with the one on deck against the crew taking five rounds and the one with the monster below deck taking only one round. My son and I had missed that the battle was over and were waiting for round two!

This is “Savage” Tide? More like Anemic Tide, I thought. We did not even stay for the last half-hour.

Quest for the Octychs, Prologue

[greytalk] Quest for the Octychs, Prologue
Sunday, March 9, 2008 7:23 PM
From: ""

After a long hiatus into Mystara, my group has decided to switch back to my Greyhawk campaign. Since it's been close to a year since the last adventure on Oerth, I've started writing up campaign recaps for my players, and I thought I'd share with the list.

It's not that they're amazing, it's that the list is quiet. ;-)

We play 3.5 Edition, but set in a pre-Wars 576 CY Flanaess. This whole campaign idea was inspired by Erik Mona's adventures "River of Blood" and "As He Lay Dying", so if you're reading this Iquander, thank you. :-)

P R O L O G U E -- "WHERE AM I?"

Four adventurers awoke within a cave. The first was a halfing sorceress name Bitola, a wanderer who liked to disguise herself as a human girl for any benefit she could ring from it. The second was Ulgret of the Fruztii, a Suel-blooded man commonly known as a Frost Barbarian. He possessed an incredible ability to recover from wounds, coupled with a strange dislike of sunlight. Third was Ithilor, a rogue from the olven nation of Celene. This sylvan elf did not consider himself a fighter, but his mobility was a boon to his companions. Last was the company's holy man, a cleric of Olidammara. A renowned tavern brawler in his own mind, one too many mugs to the head caused him to forget his own name -- his friends called him "Preach".

As each member of the party looked around, they found that they had no idea where they were. Worse, each realized that their memories were gone, with only childhood dreams remaining. As this frightening thought took hold they saw each other, and there was recognition. Although none remembered why or how, they each knew the other, and knew they were among friends.

A noble-looking human entered the room and asked after their welfare. Each of the companions immediately knew him as Tellek, another old friend. After making them comfortable, Tellek asked them to reach under their pillows, to retrieve the envelopes found there. Each contained a letter, and each companion recognized their own handwriting. Even more convincing, each recalled a childhood memory they had never shared with anyone. The letters then explained that they voluntarily had their memories erased, for their own protection, and that they would be restored when he time was right. The letters concluded by advising what the party already knew instinctively; they should trust Tellek, and each other.

Tellek told the group that they would receive prophetic help in finding their course of action. He apologized for not being able to provide any more detail, but gave assurances that he would do everything in his power to help them. He then asked that they follow him into a neighboring chamber of the cave.

A fire lit the far side of the room, but it was otherwise dark and difficult to see. A strange voice spoke from the darkness, alternately sounding like two voices and then one. Introducing themselves as The Sisters, the voice(s) told the adventurers that they should proceed to the City of Dyvers, to seek a locksmith named Theldrat, and to obtain that which he held most dear.

Puzzled by this entire affair, the party was given some guidance by Tellek. On their way out of the cave, Tellek informed them that he was a holy warrior in the service of Pelor. He would do what he could to aid them, using his church's reputation and his family's influence to make contacts where needed, to perform research, and to provide magical communication between the party and The Sisters. He told the adventurers that this cave lay a few miles south of the village of Hommlet, and told them the safest route from there to Dyvers. Showing them the road, he returned to the cave.

Sunday, September 5, 2010

Re: Castle Greyhawk - 100th page!

Re: Re: [greytalk] Castle Greyhawk - 100th page!
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:47 PM
From: "Gary Gygax"
To: "Joseph Elric Smith" , "The GREYtalk Discussion List"

Greetings Seekers!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Elric Smith"
To: "The GREYtalk Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: SPAM: Re: [greytalk] Castle Greyhawk - 100th page!

> we always did and still do, wonder what the sage was smoking to say you
> didn't apply the damage twice
> ken
> Gygax is to Gaming what Kirby was to comics
> Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil than you
> Slice N Dice: Game and Pizza Parlour
> WWBYD What would Brigham Young do ?
> Blog

Count on the silly fellow not asking me about it, for additional damage from
a bouncing lightning bolt was certainly contemplated when I write the spell,
and O always applied that in play.


"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and
give glory to your Father who is in heaven." Matthew 5:16

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Weber"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 6:09 AM
> Subject: RE: [greytalk] Castle Greyhawk - 100th page!
>> From: Thatotherguy
>>>--- Michael Weber wrote:
>>>> From: "M B"
>>>>>congrats on 100, scott! i love the bouncing lightning bolt, that
>>>>>is a throwback that i guess 3rd edition magic dropped. very cool.
>>>> I thought they dropped that in 2nd edition?
>>>In 1st Edition AD&D bouncing lightning bolts still only do damage once
>>>if the same bolt hits the same target twice. All because of the speed
>>>of the bolt. Chain lightning, however, gets around this. The question
>>>was answered in a Sage Advice or similar column.
>> Oops! We always applied damage twice in our first edition game.
>> I rather liked the random target factor of the original chain lightning
>> spell and the fact ot could hit the same target multiple times.

Re: Alternate Economies

Re: [greytalk] Alternate Economies
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:29 PM
From: "Chris Anderson"
To: "Paul L. Ming" Cc:

Another dissenter here. Paul's reasoning below matches my own.

Realistically, prices tend to rise around PC's in direct proportion to the amount of nice equipment they have. Almost every merchant I have tends to size up PC's and view them as walking coinage, so there's a gold rush mentality when the PC's come to town. It makes for a nice time, wonderful accommodations, the best food, and a burning need to replenish those purses fairly often by adventuring.

Merchants tend to have one price for PC's and another for locals, too.

-- Chris

On 8/15/07, Paul L. Ming <> wrote:

I'm one of those 'dissenters' who don't find the AD&D pricing too out of whack. I mainly rationalize it by saying that the economies of countries is quite heavily influenced by "adventurers". In modern day analogies, what if every 25th person could go out and make, legaly, $1,000,000.00 over the course of a weekend. He could do this every weekend. After a couple of months/years of this, his 'hauls' wouldn't be just $1 million a weekend, but $10 million or more. Suddenly, the value of 'money' would drop. People who were not 'adventurers' wouldn't see much actual money because the actual 'dollar value' would be way above their means...they would resort primarily to barter. A farmer might give a carpenter a half-dozen chickens in exchange for the carpenter building him a new wheel barrow. The inn keep would give a free meal to the gardener who cuts the lawn, trims the hedges and trees, and thins the rose bushes. Actual coin wouldn't be used nearly as much as labour/barter.

As long as I keep this in mind, I don't have a problem with the economic situation in my games. In my games, a 'typical' NPC might make 3 to 5 gp's per month (lantern lighter, porter, stable hand, etc.). A more 'professional' NPC would double or triple that (scribe, page, carpenter, blacksmith). And a 'specialized' NPC even more (armorer, alchemist, engineer, etc.). In this way, when the PC's come back to town
with 700gp's each, they will be *very* rich. They can live like lords for a couple of months. And, IMHO, this is what PC's generally do. The role of "adventurer" in my game campaigns are pretty rare. My games are also "low-powered" type things, where a master wizard is of unthinkably high level (at least 6th!). ;)

Paul L. Ming

Thatotherguy wrote:
> As I said, from what I've seen. If you feel differently, feel free to
> present a defense. I would be interested in hearing it.

Re: Question to the List

Re: [greytalk] Re: Question to the List
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:59 AM
From: ""

Sorry, I also forgo about:

- Below the Tomb of Horrors (Dragon #249)

On Wed Nov 14 1:57 , sent:

Here are some other thoughts that you might have already considered:

- Any of the "Return To" series from '98
- House on Summoner's Court (either the Shadis or Oerth Journal versions)

...and here are few older Dungeon issues with adventures set in GH (just the ones I happen to have):
- The Wrath of Keraptis (Dungeon #77)
- Kingdom of the Ghouls (Dungeon #70)
- The Ruins of Nol-Daer (Dungeon #13)
- The Shrine of Ilsidahur (Dungeon #10)

On Tue Nov 13 21:19 , "Chris Anderson" sent:

I like the idea of the Maure Castle stuff. I especially like it, since my players ran through WG5 back in the day... I assume the Dungeon adventures build off of that, but do not duplicate it?

Hm, L3 is another possibility. I don't have it, but where there's a will, there's a way.

I don't have anything against FR, but I only bought sourcebooks rather than modules. Is there anything you're thinking of in particular?

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the advice.

-- Chris

On Nov 13, 2007 3:28 PM, Tim Mooney wrote:

In regard to: {Disarmed} Re: [greytalk] Re: Question to the List,...:

>Other folks on the list have mentioned that they were in the process of
>converting the Maure Castle adventures from Dungeon magazineback to 1E.
>Since I run 3.5 games, I didn't really follow that, but I got the
>impression it was an ongoing effort.
>Maybe you can use what they've already converted?

That's a great suggestion for the last parts of the campaign. There will need to be several modules before that, though, to get the characters high enough level to play them. The Maure modules are on the level of Tomb of Horrors as far as how deadly they are, but there are generally more monsters than there were in the original ToH.

One possibility for at least one low-level adventure is Len Lakofka's "Deep Dwarven Delve", if you can get your hands on it. It's original 1E, and very few people have played it because of its publishing history.

I'm not sure if the group of old-timers has much experience with any of the early Forgotten Realms modules, but it might be easier to convert the backstory of some of those to Greyhawk than it would be to retroconvert 3E/3.5E modules back to 1E.


Tuesday, July 20, 2010

Re: LG: The DoU capitulates

Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] LG: The DoU capitulates
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:56:37 -0400
From: Samuel D. Weiss
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List

>That's just it. From what I gather, the "Triads" don't really "produce"
anything and probably never will.<

By produce you must mean publish. You can't mean never write anything as we
sure as heck are writing quite a bit. And a good portion will be available
on the web sites the Triads will maintain.

>As for "growing" and becoming "better", I think the "Too many cooks,
spoil the broth." proverb will apply here. The end result will be
so bland as to be adventureless.<

How about "a pinch of this, a pinch of that" instead?
Greyhawk is huge. The original glossography had what, 500 words max on each
country with most coming in under half that? Maybe if someone had started
back when it first came out they might be able to show half of what the
Triads will develop for LG by this time next year. Not to mention the
intense difficulty of one person really making so many places unique and
individual. No, by having a different "cook" for each course of the LG meal
you will get a wonderful melange of tastes and flavors to suit even the most
discriminating palate.

Sam Weiss
Keoland Triad

Monday, July 19, 2010

Re: Greyhawk Timeline

From Wed Oct 25 07:46:39 1995
To: Gregory Bernath
Cc: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1065
X-Lines: 24
Status: RO

On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gregory Bernath wrote:

> Okay, here's the problem.
> Iuz was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk from 505 - 570.
> The Battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple was in 569.
> Yet _The Temple of Elemental Evil_ states that Iuz was free and
> active during the fall of the temple. So, we have a contradiction.
> In _Iuz the Evil_, we find that Iuz only learns of the fall of the
> Temple after his release. This would imply that TOEE is incorrect,
> and that Iuz was still imprisoned when the Temple fell.
> So, for the sake of continuity, you either have to remove Iuz's
> involvement in TOEE, or change the the dates around so that Emridy
> Meadows happens after the release of Iuz.
> Anyways, I was curious whether anyone has come up with any other
> solutions.

I pondered this one also, and I think I have come up with the solution:

The battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple in CY 569 must have been THE FIRST fall of the temple. Since, in ToEE, the temple already has been sacked and Tzuggtmoy imprisoned.

Thursday, July 15, 2010

Chronomancy, Locations of Power, Hags, and Oerth

[greytalk] Chronomancy, Locations of Power, Hags, and Oerth
Friday, March 13, 2009 9:48 AM
From: "Aeolius"
To: "greytalk list"

In my campaign there is a night hag, Xaetra. Currently she is a spirit hag, inhabiting the dreams and nightmares of those she knew in life. It was foretold in an omen that she would one day return to life, before traveling far into the past. I have been mulling over ideas for such an event... I think perhaps in the future she traveled into the past to leave clues she might need. The first such clue is hidden in Turucambi, where my current campaign began. More on Xaetra here -

And now... the musings...

"Locations of power can be used for various purposes within a Dungeons & Dragons campaign. Some, such as the earth nodes described in the FORGOTTEN REALMS product Underdark, might serve as sites for the working of especially powerful magic. Others, such as the planar touchstones described in Planar Handbook, might unlock potential advancement opportunities or special abilities in characters. Still others, such as the rune circles described in Races of Stone, could allow PCs to create permanent magical effects bound to tightly confined areas. But as compelling as those ideas are, at least one interesting concept for magical locations remains unexplored - that of a location imbued with magicalpower that is available for the taking." - DMG II, pg. 235

"Evidence suggests that a group of Guardians-like chronomancers exists on Oerth, but little is known of them. The Codex of Infinite Planes has a cryptic reference to the Monitors of Infinity, "drawn from all places in Time," but this is the sum of the evidence. Chronomancers risk pursuit by the Monitors or by an avatar of a time-related deity if a major disruption of history occurs.
Two quasi-deities, Heward and Murlynd, are thought to be chronomancers or have time-travel powers from devices, psionics, or artifacts. Both have collected items from various periods in Earth history, and both have domiciles with multiple gate links across time and space to many worlds (see DRAGON(R) issue #71, pages 19-21, and module EX2 The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror.) The mad demigod Zagyg likely travels Temporal Prime, which is here usually called the Plane or Demiplane of Time; the demigod Vecna certainly knows of chronomancy.
The ancient Suloise-Baklunish conflict may have involved time battles between rival chronomancers. Istus (goddess of fate and destiny) is Baklunish; Lendor (god of time) is Suel. The outcome of such battles (if there were any), and any involvement of the Monitors or godly avatars, are unknown. Rumors circulate from time to time that small groups of hostile, destructive Suel wizards, often loners, appear in the Sea of Dust, either arising from magical suspended animation or arriving from chronomantic travel.
Chronomancy might also be known to elven wizards worshiping Labelas Enoreth, the elven deity of longevity, history, and time; to wizards of Boccob, the Oerik god of magic; and to wizards of Cyndor, the Oerik god of time, continuity, and infinity.
Chronomancers may wish to explore Tovag Baragu, the Stone Circles, whose arches sometimes open into Oerth's past. Some portions of Oerth's distant past appear to resemble our Earth's early Cenozoic period (the Age of Mammals) up to Pleistocene times. (See GREYHAWK Adventures, pages 98-99, and the adventure Vecna Lives!. Chronomancers should be warned that exploring Tovag Baragu might possibly lead to an alternate timeline of Oerth in which the demigod Vecna triumphs (as per the "Vecna Wins" scenario outlined on page 68 of Vecna Lives!. See also the potentially dangerous time-altering properties of the wildspace objects called The Sisters, in Oerth's crystal sphere of Greyspace (see Greyspace, pages 71-72).
There is speculation that the humans and centaurs who live near Tovag Baragu might have knowledge of some basic elements of chronomancy from their years of cautiously observing this artifact, though it is unlikely they openly practice this magic." - Chronomancy and the Multiverse,

"Tovag Baragu should be treated as an artifact, as described in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Its powers, and the times at which it is activated, depend on astronomical phenomena of Oerth. Each circle is linked to a particular moon or planet and operates only when it is visible in the sky. The actions of those in the circle at such times can affect the outcome, but player characters should not be permitted to learn all that is required for proper control. The most frequent full connection is to a Pleistocene setting. Whether the city seen represents the past or an alternate world or the future is up to the DM. Player characters might be allowed to gather the impression that Tovag Baragu maintains the Sea of Dust's present condition, but they ought not to be able to do anything about it until they
reach extremely high levels, if then. If the campaign includes the Cup and Talisman of Al'Akbar which are described under Artifacts in the Dungeon Masters Guide, a number of interactions might be set up between it and Tovag Baragu. " - Greyhawk Adventures

"The wreck on the east side of Turucambi is of a clipper ship, such as was known on Earth in the 1800s. (Naturally, the characters will never have heard of such a thing.) Its cargo consisted of china plates and tea, now mostly ruined. Its origin is possibly extraplanar; it might hail from across the Oljatt or simply be unexplained, according to the needs of the campaign." - Greyhawk Adventures

"There is a ship made of metal, with no mast or oars, and charts of unknown seas." - Greyhawk Glossography, pertaining to the Jungle of Lost Ships

Friday, July 9, 2010

Re: Cats in Greyhawk

Re: [greytalk] Re: Cats in Greyhawk
Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:31 AM
From: "Stefan Beate"
To: "Greytalk List"

To each his own, I guess. I like that book. Of course, some more stories could be told from that starting point: Is it really Turrosh Mak = Theg Narlot? Perhaps this is another case of wheels within wheels - this identification is a secret that can be found by diligent research and adventuring with quite some risk, but in truth it is just another ruse played expertly. So, most folks think that Turrosh Mak is a more or less random halforc from the free city, bent on gaining his own kingdom. For those "in the know" he is one of the old slavers. The "true" truth may be something else entirely - perhaps some force resurrected the mortal shell of Theg after the defeat of the slavelords, took over this shell and used it to defeat Turrosh Mak, who was really close to getting his own kingdom. Then this force assumed Turroshs identity to further confuse any keeping track of Theg Narlot and the slavelords, or it took over Turroshs mortal body. This force could be anything, from something out of the outer planes to an old suloise wizard whose consciousness was alive somewhere in the Drachensgrab mountains.


Chris Anderson schrieb:
> Well, I've never even skimmed the product. Turrosh Mak in my campaign is our lovable half-orc from Greyhawk city. He has no truck with Earth Dragons or the SB, although he is playing around with an alliance with the sahuagin to expand his control into the Sea of Gearnat and up into Wooly Bay.
> -- Chris
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Scott > wrote:
> Hi all,
> Stefan Beate wrote:
> > According to TSR 11621 (2000), Slavers, p 123, Turrosh Mak
> > IS indeed Theg Narlot. He survived and with the help of
> > Brother Kerrins contacts to the Scarlet Brotherhood and a
> > pact with the Earth Dragon managed to rise to power in the
> > Pomarj. Of course, this is only true uf you use the Greyhawk
> > 98 line of books in your game.
> You know, someday I'm going to do more than just skim that
> product. Theg Narlot just didn't look like a cat person to me in
> his module A4 illustration. What if the Earth Dragon used cats as
> intermediaries to communicate with, or spy on, Theg/Turrosh...?
> ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
> Yak-Men like keeping threads going so Greytalk doesn't go quiet
> again...

Monday, July 5, 2010

Re: FW: Ryan Dancey: WotC in Death Spiral

Re: [greytalk] FW: [ADND-L] Ryan Dancey: WotC in Death Spiral
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:58 PM
From: "Paul L. Ming"


I may be going out on a limb here, but I honestly saw this coming about a year ago. As soon as I heard that they had a new guy coming in to "drive the ship"

Wizards of the Coast announces new President
Posted 2008-03-14 06:26:02 by JoyceGreenholdt

Joyce Greenholdt Reports: Wizards of the Coast Inc., subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. and leader in trading-card games, role-playing games, and shared-world fantasy fiction, today announced Greg Leeds as the new President of Wizards of the Coast.

Leeds is moving to Renton, Wash., following seven years at Hasbro where he headed up International Marketing and helped to develop Hasbro’s global brand management methodology. Prior to that he led Hasbro’s Boys group and had extensive experience in marketing, operations, and sales at both Samsonite and Procter & Gamble.

“Wizards is a fantastic game company with great opportunities to expand and enhance player communities around the world,” said Leeds. “I feel privileged to join the team and carry-on our culture of captivating gamers everywhere they want to play.”

After a distinguished 12-year career at Wizards of the Coast, Loren Greenwood is stepping down as President and CEO and leaving the company effective March 21." figured "This guy doesn't sound like he 'gets' the RPG fans. He'll treat it like all the other products he's been marketing, not really understanding that an old module like, say X1: The Isle of Dread that was produced back in 1980, can be opened up and used in 4e without any serious problems.". In effect, RPG'ers main ability is their generally 'higher than average' IQ and imagination, as well as the nature of RPG's (that is, "Create your own stuff") pretty much does NOT support the huge business model that big companies like Hasbro use and expect.

In short, I see RPG's like art: you don't go into it expecting to get do it because you love it and it's who you are...if you can make a living on it, you should be damn proud. Hasbro was expecting D&D to "make oodles of cash", when all they really should have been thinking of is "As long as we can pay for our expenses, and give our employees a small raise, or catered staff party every year, we're golden." I think WotC/Hasbro are starting to see the light; that they can't really make 'oodles' of cash off RPG's like they can off Magic:The Gathering, or expansions to Cranium or theme-based Monopoly board games.

Heres an interesting link with Greg Leeds attempting to explain, to some degree, the decision to nix PDF's: Sounds like he's trying to play the part of the gallant knight, protecting 'the poor, defenseless masses' from the Evil Pirate Horde. selfless and thoughtful of him. ;)


Paul L. Ming

Stefan Beate wrote:
I don´t think this is Hasbros doing - my guess would be that Hasbro sets the goals, and WotC strives to reach them. Reaching these goals will be hard, especially at the moment, and so the nervousness in WotCs management rises. A cornered animal lashes out blindly.

Friday, July 2, 2010

Re: Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors

Re: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:51 AM
From: ""
Cc: "Otto Zequeira"

Thanks for the replies. Guess the Isles of Woe from LG is out. Took out my copy of "Hand of the Revenant" and reread. Picked up a good tip from a Canonfire post to tie the other locations with the Tomb thematically or narratively.

May I share the posts here with Canonfire for more cross-fertilization?

Also, found the following locations in "Iuz the Evil" for the Howling Hills:

The Grouaning Mines
The Soul Husks Caverns
Spear Tor
The Swirlers
Wegwiur Thralls
Xanxeven Point

Otto Z.

Iuz, highest hill: ?
Island in the Nyr Dyv: Tzunk (adventure available?)
Bright Desert: Rary the Traitor (especially Sulm), Ghost Tower (Soul Gem with soul-stealing power like Acererak)
Duchy of Geoff: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
Vast Swamp: Tomb
Island beyond Sea Barons: Turucambi or the Sinking Isle (Greyhawk Adventures)

--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Stefan Beate wrote:

> From: Stefan Beate
> Subject: Re: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
> To:
> Cc: " >> Greytalk List"
> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 12:33 PM
> Otto Zequeira schrieb:
> > You mentioned LG materials. I remember
> that there was a Tzunk-related adventure for LG. How
> may one obtain that?
> >
> >
> AFAIK, you can´t get them legally today. They were only
> available while they were current in the campaign. I guess
> that the rights stay with WotC/Hasbro, at least the parts of
> the stories with the GH brand recognition. IIRC, somebody
> said that it would be theoretically possible to republish
> them for the author if he removed any and all GH references
> from them. But this is from what I dimly remember reading
> somewhere. The gist of it was that it is too much trouble to
> be worth it. IIRC, some of the LG modules got very mixed
> critiques also.
> > Otto Z.
> >
> > Iuz, highest hill: ?
> I seem to recall a Dungeon adventure sometime during the
> last two years of the mags run which had a hill adventure
> with some connection to some demons, orcs and maybe snakes,
> but the details are hazy. From what I recall, it should
> roughly fit the theme. I´ll go looking for it.
> Stefan

Thursday, July 1, 2010

Re: Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors

RE: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:29 AM
From: "Creighton Broadhurst" Add sender to Contacts

Hey Otto,

Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick. The Sinking Isle would be a cool link in to the Tomb of Horrors, but I don't think any published module has ever dealt with the area. I think a lot of adventure tie-in ideas depend on how old you decide the tomb is. I don't have my files here, but I don't recall any definitive date for the tomb's construction. Acererak could definitely have gained lost/forbidden knowledge from the Soul Gem and the Ghost Tower and by exploring many of the locations in the Bright Desert (I'm thinking of Darkbridge Temple and the Necropolis of Unnagh [sp] in

In regard to obtaining LG materials, there is no "legal" way left to do so. WoTC owns all the rights to all core adventures (and all other adventures and materials they paid for) and at this time I doubt they have any interest in releasing them.

Creighton Broadhurst
Check out my blog at Raging Swan
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

-----Original Message-----
From: Otto Zequeira []
Sent: 27 July 2009 14:48
To:; Creighton Broadhurst
Subject: RE: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors

Hi Gents. Thanks for the replies.

Good idea, Greg, as to the Soul Gem being an inspiration for Acererak.

Creighton, to clarify, as I showed with the list below, I want to keep the Tomb in its original location, but simulate a search for the Tomb with some standalone adventures. You mentioned LG materials. I remember that there was a Tzunk-related adventure for LG. How may one obtain that?

Any other thoughts for stand-alone adventures in the areas below? Thanks again for the ideas.

Otto Z.

Iuz, highest hill: ?
> Island in the Nyr Dyv: Tzunk (adventure
> available?)
> Bright Desert: Rary the Traitor (especially
> Sulm), Ghost Tower (Soul
> Gem with
> soul-stealing power like Acererak)
> Duchy of Geoff: Expedition to the Barrier
> Peaks
> Vast Swamp:
> Tomb
> Island beyond Sea Barons: Turucambi or the
> Sinking Isle (Greyhawk Adventures)
--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Creighton Broadhurst wrote:

> From: Creighton Broadhurst
> Subject: RE: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
> To:
> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 6:51 AM
> RE: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of
> Horrors
> Hey all,
> It depends how old you want the tomb to
> be. I'm not sure how you would tie it into
> Expedition to the Barrier Peaks but placing it in the Bright
> Desert or an island beyond the Sea Barons would be
> funky. In the Bright Desert, it could tie into
> ancient Sulm dark practises or on the island
> beyond the Sea Barons it would probably be an old Flan
> site. In either event the tomb would probably be
> around 1500 - 2000 years old. If you go with the Tzunk idea
> the tomb would be really old IMO (although I don't have
> access to all my file to give an exact
> approximate date ;-( )
> With the Tzunk and Sea Barons idea there is
> a dearth of publishing material. If you
> shoot for the Bright Desert, DUNGEON published
> a couple of articles on the area and the D&D web site
> did have some additional articles. LG also produced a core
> module set around the Tomb (but this assumes it is
> in its "correct"
> location.
> Creighton Broadhurst
> Check out my blog at Raging Swan
> "You miss 100% of the shots you > don't take."
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From: Otto Zequeira []
> Sent: 26 July 2009 17:31
> To:; Otto Zequeira
> Subject: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
> Dear all:
> How are you? Hope you are doing
> well. My players have decided to go after what will
> turn out to be the Tomb of Horrors, though they don't
> know it yet.
> The original adventure listed alternative
> locations for the tomb. I thought it might be a good
> opportunity to tie in some adventures that they have not
> enjoyed yet.
> Any suggestions for the locations below,
> especially with good, published material, would be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.
> Otto Z.
> Iuz, highest hill: ?
> Island in the Nyr Dyv: Tzunk (adventure
> available?)
> Bright Desert: Rary the Traitor (especially
> Sulm), Ghost Tower (Soul
> Gem with
> soul-stealing power like Acererak)
> Duchy of Geoff: Expedition to the Barrier
> Peaks
> Vast Swamp:
> Tomb
> Island beyond Sea Barons: Turucambi or the
> Sinking Isle (Greyhawk Adventures)

Monday, June 28, 2010

Re: Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors

Re: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 7:23 AM
From: "Otto Zequeira"
To:, "Otto Zequeira"

Thanks for all the suggestions. Lots of food for thought. Reread my copy of "Vecna: Hand of the Revenant", Thor. Connections between Acererak and Vecna should be explored. Need to follow up on your suggestions for Darkbridge Temple and the Necropolis of Unnagh [sp], Creighton. Nice write-up, Scott.

I am considering a combination of legend lore and commune spells to lay down the clues for the search for the Tomb. Commune spells are interesting in that the contacted entity can color responses.

Here is the link again at Canonfire for some of the suggestions that were mentioned there:

Mind if I post some of the recent suggestions there for cross-fertilization?

Dirt from Skull City and dust of demi-lich make great cross-fertilization.

--- On Tue, 7/28/09, Scott wrote:

> From: Scott
> Subject: [greytalk] RE: Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 4:55 PM
> Hi all,
> In case this helps, here's what I wrote about Acererak for
> my South Province campaign:
> It is common knowledge that "Acererak the Devourer" is a
> name passed down in legend. A name to be feared and
> spoken in the strongest curses.
> It is uncommon knowledge that Acererak was once a terrible
> archmage who ruled a kingdom where the County of Sunndi
> stands today. It is rumored that his tomb still
> exists.
> It is rare knowledge that Acererak ruled an empire nearly
> 1,000 years ago. He warred with Queen Ehlissa, seeking
> to expand his domain. He was vassal to Orcus, the
> demon lord, and was rewarded for his efforts with
> undeath. He lies in a tomb of his own devising
> somewhere in the Great Swamp, waiting to serve his master
> once more.
> It is very rare knowledge that Acererak's empire was
> peopled by Ur-Flan, undead, and monsters of his own
> creation, and that it stretched through modern-day Medegia
> as well. Now he is the lord of all liches, though he
> has not called a coven of liches for 500 years. As his
> body crumbles, his spirit is free to roam the Oerth once
> more. In this form he has manipulated events in the
> Great Kingdom over the last 25 years.
> ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
> Yak-Men use a coven of liches when they need new bone
> scroll cases...

Friday, June 25, 2010

Re: Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors

Re: [greytalk] Alternative locations for the Tomb of Horrors
Monday, August 17, 2009 8:12 PM
From: "Chris Anderson"
To: "Thor Thunderer"

I may very well have missed something published... how do we know that Acererak was one of Vecna's generals? And have we definitively pinpointed when he turned lich?

Also, where did the information about Acererak's early life come from?

With regards to Acererak putting down Kas's coup attempt... I actually played through the rebellion in my campaign. There, it was a complete surprise to Vecna, since his focus was entirely on putting down the Oeridian incursions into his territory.

Kas had no significant plan or organization ready to revolt: such would not be able to exist for long in the informer-ridden court that Vecna created. He also couldn't rely on his army commanders to attack Vecna, either, since Vecna had this habit of mind-controlling his minions... not Kas, since he was trusted and controlled through his Sword. But everyone else.

Instead, it was literally an impulsive act ... Kas found himself entirely alone with Vecna, who was exhausted from a massive sorcery that had just destroyed a largish portion of one of the Oeridian armies. Vecna was unprepared and weakened, Kas was at his strongest, and had recently dominated the Sword.

I was really pleased at how closely the game actually followed "reality".

-- Chris

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Thor Thunderer wrote:

> Also, I can't imagine Vecna or Acererak sharing power
> in the Empire. Seems to me that any truce between them
> would last only long enough until one had an opening at the
> other.

My feeling is that Acererak didn't care at all about worldly power. He's referred to as a recluse quite often. Since we know he was one of Vecna's generals, I could see him easily ruling a region in Vecna's name, as long as he could be left to his studies and relay the actual business of ruling to minions, while reaping the benefits.

> Of course, it's quite possible that other sorcerors
> stepped up to try to grab power after Vecna died ...

It's almost certain that would be the case. Vecna's minions universally seem dedicated to the proposition that power is good. :)

> Also, in my campaign, Vecna routinely terrorized and hunted
> down anyone with any shred of magical ability. He was very
> aware of the need to stamp out any rivals. If Acererak had
> shown any hint of his existence during this period, he would
> have been instantly attacked and most likely slain.

Thing is, we know that Acererak's mother was slaughtered because of his power when he was young anyway, so, that kind of fits... even if you disregard the accounts that Acererak was one of Vecna's generals, and loyal enough to his benefactor to rescue him from certain doom.

> So, personally, I would not tie Acererak to the Spidered
> Throne. I haven't really thought about Acererak during
> this period, but my first thoughts are that he's
> entirely turned inwards, dealing with his conversion to
> lichdom and not really aware of what's going on
> "outside".

By the end of Vecna's reign, I suspect that's certainly the case... or else, from the other accounts, he'd have probably helped put down Kaz's mutiny early on.


Wednesday, February 10, 2010

The Road to Ulakand

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:47:34 EST
From: Gary Welsh
Subject: The Road to Ulakand

This is a brief treatise on a merchant road that goes west out of Ket across the plains to Ulakand and thence across the steppes to the far east, to lands that are legendary in the Flanaess.

Ket is on a plateau of sorts, between the Yatil Mountains to the north and the Barrier Peaks to the south. It is a hilly land, heavily forested in the south and central parts (the Bramblewood), and bordered in the west by the Tusman Hills (separates it from Tusmit to the northwest) in the south by the Pen-Wilds, or Pennors (separates it from the Plains of the Paynims [Bayomens]). In the southeast, the hills around the Fals River, and Thornward, have often been the sites of skirmishes and clashes between Bakluni west and the rest of the Flanaess in the east. The swords and spears of Bissel and Veluna have always been pointed against Ket. But there has also been much profitable trade in Ket as -- this place is the crossroads between two vastly different cultures. Caravans go from Lopolla [Hlupallu] in all directions.

To the northeast, a road goes to Molvar, and thence over the mountain road all the way to Krestible in Perrenland. To the east, a road goes around the Bramblewood and down to the river valley to Thornward, in Bissel, and thence east to Veluna, or south to Gran March. To the west, traffic flows down the Tuflik River to Ceshra and Sufmur, and eventually out to the Drawmij Ocean and the coastal cities of Ekbir and Zeif. Also to the west is the wide and dusty Ulakand Road, which fords the Tuflik River and strikes off aay from the Pen-Wilds, with brown and purple mountains in the distance to the south (left hand side) and eventually flatness everywhere. After hundreds of miles of flat, dry plains, the road heads into the trade center of Ulakand [Yolakand], once the capital of a great Paynim Khan.

From Ulakand, one can go south across the lands of Ull, to the settlements in the Ulsprue Mountains in the west (known to be inhabited by cyclopes and cloud giants), or the the hill-town of Kester [Ghastoor] in the southern hills. Across those brown hills, one would pass into an even drier set of plains, the Dry Steppes, which is almost desertlike -- hundreds of miles more to the south, one would eventually come to the mud and brick city of Karnoosh, on Lake Karnoosh -- an ancient site holy to the Baklunish, rebuilt after the Invoked Devastation. This oasis is one of the few sites for hundreds of miles about that support a large population. Karnoosh has routens.s south to Tashbul and the Sulhaut Mountains, and also west, possibly to the mountain kingdom of Zufon (SoD, p. 154)... The Pass of the Clenched Fist is the only pass across the Sulhauts, into the Sea of Dust (SoD, p. 171). In Karnoosh, Paynims, Ullites, dark Jahindis, and even folk of Sa'han and Behow can be seen -- many drawn by the annual slave fair held here (SoD, p. 143).

"Turrets and domes dominated the brick city of Karnoosh. The walled portion of the place -- the actual city -- was relatively small; no more than seven or eight thousand souls were enclosed by the high barriers. All around the city, except on the side that abutted the sorte of the big lake, were ancillary villages and towns that quadrupled or quintupled the total population of the area. Most of these smaller places were liberally dotted with caravansaries and wine shops where traders and laboreres could find housing and amusement during their brief stay.

"Continual streams of merchants came to the city, for Karnoosh was a hub where purveyors from north, south, east and west could exchange commodities.
An open bazaar was always busy. Slaves, spices, animals, ivory, and a mulitude of other goods were sold and traded there. The brick casbah housed sufficient troops to encourage everyone to do business peacefully, but just in case auxiliary forthresses also stood on either flank of the city. The Shah of Karnoosh was very rich and very powerful. There were no strong states around his little realm, so for a century there had been no warfare troubling the place. Such peace and prosperity brought even more merchants to Karnoosh, and it was a thriving cosmopoilis by all measures of the whole of Oerik" (SoD, p. 150).

If one had turned west instead of south, way back at Ulakand, one would have continued along the great plains, skirting the north-reaching arm of the Ulsprues, and heading due west, where one road would branch off north to Antalotol, while another continued west across plains which no map in the Flanaess ever detailed... If you keep going west, you come to another coast, a wedge-like sea that comes in from the Dramidj Ocean, nearly as far south as the latitude Karnoosh is at (29 degrees lattitude, Karnoosh is at about 26 degrees). The road turns south and goes around the coast, where it goes past little port towns, and also inland to the mountains to the south (which are distantly connected to the Sulhauts further east). Here, one is truly in western or central Oerik.

This wedge-shaped sea that cuts southward from the Dramidj divides the Bakluni subcontinent from the rest of western Oerik. To the west and north are the so-called "khanates" and beyond that coast is the rocky, volcanic isle of Fireland.

Tuesday, February 9, 2010

Re: Ehlonna and Sheldomar (still long)

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:53:26 +1200
From: Craig & Julie
Subject: Re: Ehlonna and Sheldomar (still long)

>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:12:55 GMT
>From: Paul Looby
>Subject: Re: Ehlonna and Sheldomar (still long)
>>So, you're postulating a seasonal "let's all go to the hills" for the
>>entire Sheldomar valley? :-)
>Yeah why not - load up granny and the kids on a cart and hit the road! :=
>No seriously - if you want to put seasonal floods in - then meltwater f=
>the Lortmils in spring is the way to do it. I don't have the map in fron=
t of
>me - but IIRC the Sheldomar has a lot of tributaries sourced in the
>mountains which will catch meltwater runoff in spring.
>The magnitude of the effect downstream is another question. The topology=
>the river valley and the soil types there would be big factors I think (=
>being a geographer). It might not be an all out head for the hills - but
>there probably would be some seasonal flooding.
>That's my take on it - anyone want to add to, subtract from or just plai=
>napalm this?
>> What's the average height of the Lortmils? They are geologically old a=
>> weathered so I'd say not so high (maybe 1000 metres with the odd high=
>> peak) so with the exception of a few months (at most over winter) pro=
>> don't get snow very often, so probably not too much run off in spring.
>Pat E wrote:=20
>The Appalacians are old as well, but the presidentials, and green mounta=
>(NH, and VT) get a TON of snow, and contribute to spring flooding along =
>rivers (such as the Saco river, east of Mt. Washington).
While Paul Wrote:=20
>Still if you look at places like the mountains of central Spain and sout=
>Italy - they get snow in winter. Not a whole lot, but enough to cause fl=

Both these examples are in the 40-45 latitudes (approximately the same as the lands of Iuz, while the Lortmils are closer to 30 degrees lat (Shanghai, Israel, Libya). I'm not saying that these lats. don't get snow, they do but in my interpretation of the Lortmils they don't get a lot of snow, not enough anyway to cause spring melt problems in the Sheldomar basin. I have them as similar to my local hills, they get the odd dump of snow over the winter but it seldom lasts more than a day or so, sometimes a week and it doesn't cause too many problems, there is some flooding but
that's mainly due to the rain at lower altitudes than snow. I don't see winter melt as being too much of a problem in the Lortmils. The rivers would flood occasionally but this is probably more due to rainfall than snow melt.

I have the snow line ending further north, maybe somewhere in Furyondy with falls infrequent further South.

>>The Sheldomar starts in Rushmoor and again I don't see this as a major
>>cause of spring run off, it lacks a big Mt catchment to really get a lo=
t of
>>spring melt. The Javan on the other hand probably floods a lot with tho=
>>Mt tributaries flowing down from the Crystalmists!
>Agreed on the Javan. Doesn't the Sheldomar have three or four tributarie=
>sourced in the Lortmils though?=20

Yep, but the Lortmils are a lot lower than the Crystalmists. I'd equate the Javan more in line with the Ganges as its headwaters are in the Flanaesses equivelant of the Himalayas, so I'd see seasonal flooding as being quite a problem in that valley, not so much in the Sheldomar one- well at least not caused by snows. I'd have spring rains causing floods more than snow melt in the Sheldomar Basin, but that's just me.

>That's how I see them as well. Wide dry grasslands - rain perhaps in spr=
>and winter (?).
>>The Uleks, which I've never really developed, I'd say would again be
>>something similar - perhaps like parts of Victoria or South Australia, =
>>for wheat & vineyards. Intensive farming along the river valleys, pator=
>>sheep farming in the drier uplands.
>I'd go with that - but I also see occasional floods in springtime. The
>rivers might not overflow every year - but every so often they will,
>especially with a particularly wet spring after a hard winter.

Agreed. actually I've just checked my notes on Keoland & found that I've put a reasonable amount of emphasis on spring floods, so may have to reverse my argument :)Oops.


Probably better you didn't:)
My geography degree has only been good for writing up countries for my AD&D campaigns!

BTW here in my take on the climate of the region, based on my incomplete write up of Keoland.

Keoland enjoys a temperate, Mediterranean style climate. Summers tend to be long, hot, dry and dusty with the temperatures often reaching into the mid to high thirties (Celsius). Winters tend to be mild with the temperature seldom dipping below freezing, except in the northern provinces.

The climate is driest in the central and western regions; areas close to the two main river valleys, the Sheldomar and the Javan, use irrigation and canals to bring water to the crops during the driest months. Gradsul and the southern coast has the highest annual rainfall. In most areas precipitation occurs mainly during the spring months when the moisture heavy south-easterly winds sweep in from the Azure Sea bringing the rains which replenishes and nourishes the soil. Summer is dry often bringing droughts especially to the inland regions. In both spring and autumn the plains are swept by fierce thunderstorms. Cumuli-nimbus clouds tower up into the stratosphere, bringing heavy rains and sometimes even tornados.

Keoland's climate is due both to its geographic location and the prevailing long term synoptic weather patterns in Greyhawk. In the winter months the prevailing winds in the Flanaess come from the north-east, sweeping down across the central kingdoms into Keoland, bringing snow to many of the more northerly kingdoms but having spent most of their force by the time they reach the Lortmils they bring little more than cold dry winds, with little or no rain to Keoland. However they do deposit some snow on the higher peaks of the Lortmil Mountains and bring frosts and cold temperatures to the northern provinces of the kingdom.

In spring the south east trade winds arrive, blowing in from the Solnor Ocean and Azure Sea and pushing the winter winds back northward. The south easterlies are warm and moisture laiden and as they meet the cold dry northerly winds they bring rain to the lands. These spring fronts bring heavy rains to Keoland and the other nations of the Sheldomar Valley for about a month during Planting but as quickly as they arrive the rains depart and the long hot summer begins.

As well as having heavier rainfall the coastal regions are also more humid than the central and northern provinces, due to the influence of the Azure Sea. Another feature of the climate of Keoland is the hot, dry Fohn wind, called the Dragon's Breathe by locals, that blows in from the Sea of Dust beyond the Crystalmist Mountains. This super-dry wind dries the land, sucking the last of the moisture out of the air as it blows down from the high mountain valleys. The Dragon's Breathe (Note: I have to come up with a better name than that one day:) brings high winds, dust clouds and scorching temperatures to Keoland during summer.

Keoland's climate has a definite north-south and east to west gradient. The central and northern regions tend to be both hottest and driest during the summer months and the coolest during winter as they are furthest from the moderating influences of the Azure Sea and so have the greatest extremes in temperature. Summers tend to be coolest in the Good Hills where the higher elevation brings cooler temperatures. During winter these hills sometimes get a sprinkling of snow but it seldom remains for more than a day or two

Keoland is a large kingdom in the South West portion of the Flanaess. The
Rushmoors form the nominal western boundary of the kingdom while in Azure Sea, some 600 miles south of these marshes form the southern boundary. To the east the mighty Sheldomar River is the kingdoms eastern border while the Javan River bounds it to the west. In the far north western corner of the kingdom the most recent acquisition to the lands, the County of Javan lies on the western shore of the Javan and this province stretches as far west as the Stark Mounds.

Most of the kingdom lies within the Sheldomar River Basin and consists of a huge plain that stretches from Gradsul in the South to the Thornwood, the capital of Bissel far to the north, a distance of some 1,000 miles.

The country generally slopes from west to east slowly rising in elevation the further west one travels. The vast plains of Keoland barely rise more than 300' in height from the Sheldomar River to the foot hills of the Good Hills, some 250 miles further west. These highlands are the only hills of any note in Keoland, and reach a peak of some 1500 feet above sea level. They are named the Good Hills for they are both fertile and have a favourable climate for growing crops and for orchards as well. Apples, pears, apricots, peaches, olives and even some citrus fruits are all grown in the valleys and slopes of the Good Hills. Beyond the hills the land falls away sharply as the hills drop down the Javan River Valley.

The most fertile soils are found closest to the Javan and Sheldomar River's where the annual floods deposits alluvial material that supplies the sustenance for the regions cops. The further north and west one travels from the Sheldomar the drier and stonier the soils get and the less suitable they become for arable farming. Instead the northern and central areas tend to rely more upon the raising of livestock, especially sheep and goats, for their livelihood.

Because the richest soils tend to be located nearest the Sheldomar Valley it isn't surprising to find that the majority of the kingdom's population live near this vital waterway, in fact more than 60% of the population live within 100 miles of the Sheldomar river, in the three main provinces of Gradsul, Sheldomar and Middlemarch. Population density is lessens in the central and western areas of the these provinces. The least populated provinces are in the far northern borderland provinces of (Javan, Rushmoor and Northmarch as well as the Southern Marches which lie between Dreadwood and the Azure Sea. The cooler, more temperate climate of the Good Hills, with its fertile soils, is also a favourable place to live so this region tends to be quite densely settled as well.


Craig Courtis

More on guns, a little on the Kalevala

Priority: normal
Date sent: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:05:24 CST
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL
Subject: [GREYTALK] More on guns, a little on the Kalevala
Originally to: greytalk@MIT.EDU

>IMO The gun would be used by the short lived races, Orcs are a good
>example of a race that would use GunPowder....Note I still don't use
>Gunpowder in my Greyhawk Campaign...

How about that Terry Harrison, eh? First he gives us a great use for gunpowder, and then he tells us he doesn't use it.

Jeff Mckillop added:
>>But Orcs are unlikely to invent GunPowder, so they will need as way to access it.
>True, and who would be stupid enough to give the secret to them?

I don't know about stupid, but Iuz, the Hierarchs, the Slave Lords, and Turrosh Mak (if you use him) would all benefit from outfitting their humanoid troops with firearms. Yeah, I'm using this idea.

Jonathan Wilson, and I believe some other people too, have suggested that gunpowder should be a secret guarded by dwarves and/or gnomes. Keep in mind that scrying magic keeps secrets like that very hard to protect. Mr. Wilson also pointed out that there would be no reason to develop firearms because there is magic. Fair enough, but then you have to say that swords and armor don't exist either, because you don't need them if you have magic either. Obviously, not everyone is a magic-user (at least not in most people's campaigns) and that other options should exist for the other classes.

Terry Nixon wrote:
>I have read the Kalevala and I use one of the Finnish deities in my
>Greyhawk campaign, and will possibly bring in some more.
>Didn't someone on the list mention that Mordenkainen originates from
>some Finnish source?

Did you really get through the whole thing? I tried it when I just started college, but I only got about halfway. As to Mordenkainen, I suspect that Mr. Gygax was inspired by the names in the Kalevala, but I don't think it was borrowed from any source.

Lastly, I wrote:
>I can just imagine the surprise when a mid-level druid decides to
>defend a castle by using Stone Shape to make the castle walls dodge
>the cannoballs!
And Alan Clark responded:
>Ha! Just imagine the argument you would have on your hands if I was
>running the game and you were trying to sell me on that one...

Would you believe we were playing Toon? Okay, so even I can't defend myself on that one. In campaign play, I wouldn't allow it either. Still, in just a one-shot adventure, it would be pretty funny...

Scott “Volstagg” Casper
old orc: “Looks like them humans are back with another party. Time to break out the gunpowder again...” --great NPCs, Shannon!

Monday, January 18, 2010

RUMUR! Meet the New Hawk - WoG to Restart/Reimagine in 4e

[greytalk] RUMUR! Meet the New Hawk - WoG to Restart/Reimagine in 4e
Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:42 PM
From: "Wade Nolen"

Well, you know life has little ironies, sometimes.

It’s kind of funny to me how fast and how far a rumor can spread. In this case, how long a rumor can persist, and how it can come full circle. Maybe it’s an indicator of how long I’ve been scouring the Canonfire forums, or how big of a geek that I really am that I immediately recognized the actual text of this little gem. But, I’ve seen it several times in the past year or so, and I immediately recognized it.

A year and a season ago, in late Summer of last year (August ’08), a fella that many of us know and love, Glen Vincent Dammerung, started a thread on “Canonfire!” and was discussing his ideas of what he thought would happen if they rebooted the GH franchise. Mind you, this was far before the announcement or speculation of an old setting was being revived, or that it would be Dark Sun. At any rate, GVD started the thread, although it has since been taken to great extremes, and apparently has reached Germany is being taken not only out of context, but also far too seriously. It was just GVD putting out what he thought was cool, fun, and what they ought to do. A good read, but nothing even resembling authoritative. But, such is the nature of rumors.

The greatest part is that here it is 15 months later, and it’s come back to us!!

Wade K. Nolen
aka "Icarus "

I'm off to gallivant among the clouds!
" ... and he did fly, and he was seen on the wings of the wind."

From: Tom Roberts []
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: [greytalk] Solution to the "Canon" vs. Otherwise Problem - CORRECTION

On that note, I thought this rumor making the rounds might be of interest to the list.;wap2

Anyone care to comment?

Tom Roberts
If women are so much smarter than men, why do they keep dating us?

> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:26:26 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [greytalk] Solution to the "Canon" vs. Otherwise Problem - CORRECTION
> > On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 21:01 -0500, Tracy Johnson wrote:
> >> The solution to "Canon" versus anything else may be rather simple.
> -Details snipped for brevity-
> I think the real answer is even more simple, canon is whatever the DM
> and players agree it is. Given the -not currently supported- nature of
> the setting, it really doesn't matter at all beyond that.
> Now, if/when WOTC decides to do something with GH again, the matter of
> canon might be important again, but as Russ and Sam were noting, the
> precedent of the recent Greyhawk Ruins Expedition book doesn't bode
> well for LG derived material, including the bits released to the
> general public on the site (that's a handy
> shortcut url to the LG official site, which is archived for posterity
> (for now at least).
> In fact, I don't see much beyond LGG and perhaps EGHR itself being
> held as recent canon by WOTC in the future, simply because the legal
> ownership of the early LG era stuff is muddy (Russ, Sam or other LG
> staff alumni can probably shed more light on the details) and the
> derivative nature of later LG stuff (following up on info in early LG
> stuff for example) might make WOTC shy away from using any of it.
> --
> Bree-yark, baby!
> Rich,
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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