Re: Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk

Re: [greytalk] Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk
Sunday, October 7, 2007 2:55 AM
From: "basiliv@cablespeed.com"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com

Now that I've finished it, I'm recommending it even more. Great stuff.

Also, I just found a bunch of the maps available at higher resolutions on the Wizards site: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20070812a

On Tue Oct 2 16:44 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonz�lez" sent:

Since I haven't read it stated here, I think all GH fans should purchase this product immediately.

Not only is it one of the only recent GH publications, it was, as Jim said, obviously produced with love and respect for the setting.

Because of that, I think GH fans will find it entertaining, interesting and inspirational regarding their own GH campaigns, regardless of what game system they use.

MTG

basiliv@cablespeed.com wrote:

It's more reminiscent of Return to White Plume Mountain than, say, Return to the Keep on the Borderlands. What I mean is, it's set years after the original module, rather than just being a revamp/expansion on the original.

Expedition is more of a campaign, with story threads leading the PCs back & forth between the Free City (and the Green Dragon Inn) and the castle. It provides more of an overall plot and less of a catalogue of brief room summaries like the original. I really liked the original, and there's quite a bit of goodness in there that isn't covered in Expedition, but the areas it covers are more fleshed out and are tied to the otherside world better than Ruins was.

But as far as actually comparing the two, so far I think they've stayed fairly true to it. There are definitely several areas that are straight out of the original, but with some changes you might expect by advancing the clock by twenty years. I'm not quite done reading it yet (starting chapter 5 ou of 6 now), but I think the surprises it holds will be more value than the rehashing. Very obviously a product of love for the campaign setting. :-)

On Mon Sep 24 19:00 , "Michael Weber" sent:

Has anyone had the chance to compare this to WGR1, Greyhawk Ruins?

RttKotB review

Subject: [GREYTALK] RttKotB review
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:41:50 EDT
From: "Nathan E. Irving>"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List

OK, I didn't want to comment on Return to the Keep on the Borderlands until I'd read it. Here goes.

Overall - 9 out of 10. I think this is a great adventure.

Canon Greyhawk - 2 out of 10. In my recollection, the World of Greyhawk was mentioned five times. One reference to the Sea of Dust, one to the Yeomanry, one to Wee Jas, one to St. Cuthbert, and one to the Lendore Isles. These were far outnumbered by references to Nergal, Erishkigal, Hispis, Apep, Cathos City, etc., etc..

Adventure Hooks & Opportunities (for adventuring above & beyond the scope of the module) - 8 out of 10. Far better than Star Cairns or Crypt of Lyzandred, equal to or slightly better than Doomgrinder.

OK, explanations. It seems as though this adventure was first written for Mystara -- logical, since B2 was a basic D&D adventure, and the basic D&D world became Mystara. This would explain the bhut (a monster), the D'Amberville, and the inclusion of Cathos City (which is purportedly a location in/on Mystara). Conversion to the World of Greyhawk was unquestionably haphazard and poorly done. I'm not sure if this is originally an editing failure or authorial failure, but it certainly should've been
caught by the editor (Duane Maxwell, if people are curious).

The first section of RttKotB is devoted to the Keep on the Borderlands (actually Kendall Keep). My biggest issue with this section, and the history of the Keep, is that the author seems to have confused the "lordless land" of the Yeomanry with a lawless land. Despite that, this is a great "rest & regroup" area for a party of characters. Every NPC is detailed and named (and unlike other listmembers, I had no problem with the names). Most have some kind of background hook or secret that could lead to further adventures for a party of characters that becomes well acquainted with them.

The second section is a rough overview of the wilderness surrounding the Keep, and a number of encounters a wandering band of PCs could have thereabouts. My main problem with this section is carried over from the original module, and that's the close confines of the "wilderness". Many of the encounters are within a mile and a half of the Keep. Having grown up "in the country", I know from experience that a kid can easily cover a mile and a half just for fun, let alone what a ground a serious hunter or scout could cover. the current scale of the map is 1" = 500 yrds; I think 1" = 1 mile is more realistic.

The encounters are varied in nature and tone. Several are potentially fatal to entire parties, others are exercises in roleplaying (and could result in allies for the PCs). The Shy Tower is particularly...interesting. :-)

Finally, the Caves. They've undergone a number of changes in the 20+ years since the original adventure. I won't go into details, but I do believe the adventure hangs together well. While none (or almost none) of the monsters exist in a vacuum, they aren't particularly inclined to come to each other's aid, either, allowing adventurerers to tackle one cave without involving the rest of them. One of the greatest features of this adventure is Rateliff's detailing of the consequences of a party's actions -- if the creatures of Cave X are wiped out, those of Cave Y move in, splitting their forces and affecting the inhabitants of Cave Z.

This is NOT an adventure the PCs can simply walk into and expect to walk out of. Numerous opportunities exist for the death of one or more party members, but none are unreasonable, and nearly all are avoidable with foresight, planning, and quick reactions. The deadliest encounters are mostly confined to one area, allowing PCs the opportunity to run away.

More later...
:-)
Nell.

Review: Against the Giants:The Liberation of Geoff

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 07:58AM PDT
From: "Wayne S. Rossi" Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Review: Against the Giants:The Liberation of Geoff

Against the Giants:The Liberation of Geoff (TSR 11413)
Authors: Gary Gygax (Against the Giants) and Sean K. Reynolds (Liberation of Geoff)
Format: 96 Page Supermodule/Sourcebook.
Price: $17.95 US
Rating: 9/10

This, for those of you who have been hiding in a cave these past 8 months, is in the third entry in TSR's Silver Anniversary "Return" theme modules.

Unlike Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, though, AtG:tLoG actually reprints those original modules with very little by way of modification.

There are also three new dungeons, G4 Mount Rungnirheim, G5 Castle Thrasmotnir, and G6 Cloud Islands of the Sakhut. In addition, the rest of what remains of Geoff is wonderfully detailed.

The Product

Is the book worth cover price? The answer, I'd say, is yes. The module's plot doesn't focus on the drow conspiracy, but rather on a group of cloud giants who directed the overthrow of Geoff (though the drow angle is mentioned, and it is suggested that they can ALSO be used). The only real weakness of the module is that not every location is on the unfortunately small map of Geoff-a poster map on the level of SB would've been appreciated here. Nonetheless, this supermodule contains six solid dungeon designs (three Gary's, three Sean's), and a number of very cool location descriptions, which combine to make AtG:tLoG one of the most variable adventures out there. There are a lot of neat things placed in there, and a variable number and fate of surviving humans. What happened to Geoff seems like a true tragedy in light of AtG:tLoG. It could easily be used to make a campaign that ends in the freeing of all Geoff from the giant tyrants, and is a very high-heroic campaign module.

The Presentation

The cover is dominated by the Silver Anniversary setup-the same one we've seen on RttKotB and the rerelease of Ravenloft. This is sad, because the cover art is quite nice, and we also miss out big time-there's no Greyhawk logo on the front! Fortunately, there is one on the back-but I don't like having something that is completely and utterly Greyhawk not bearing the logo proudly on the front and sides. Inside, the layout is nice-two columns (it bugs me that they weren't justified-that is, the right sides of the text were uneven), with a new border atop. The maps are usable (the one of Geoff should've been larger, and has no hexes) and not bad-looking. The artwork is quite nice, and provides an excellent portrait of what Geoff has become. The cover price-US $17.95-is steep, but worthwhile.

Overall

What can I say? Now that you're done reading the review, you can rush to your local game store and pick up a copy of Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff, and it can be read, and it can sit on your bookshelf next to The Scarlet Brotherhood while the only thing you have to ponder is which of Sean's excellent works this year to run. If you ever intend on going near Geoff, this is indispensable. Even if you'd never planned to go there, pick this one up. You won't be disappointed, and just maybe you'll decide that there's a group of intrepid adventurers who could use the job as true heroes.

Wayne