Showing posts with label ancient history. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ancient history. Show all posts
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Tuesday, November 3, 2020
Oeridian Origins
From: Noel Graham [vision.at.work@JUNO.COM]
Sent ; Saturday, November 21, 1998 2:14 PM
To: GREYTALK@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Oeridian Origins (was AGGHHHAA!!!!)
Now, imagine if the Oeridians were once an evolved culture from the region now known as the Land of Black Ice. After some cataclysmic event, most of the survivors were forced into a nomadic role. Perhaps some small facet of their culture, much defeated, even alien by current standards, remains in Blackmoor. Or, perhaps Blackmoor developed from a rival or subjugated/subservient (formery dependent?) culture making use of the remains (or dealing proximately with them).
The Oeridians may have had an advanced seafaring aspect, based around the Drawmidj. Upon the destruction/internal collapse of their society, they moved south and west along the coast into what is now the Baklunnish lands. Of course, some traveled even more south or east, but this discussion focuses on the coastal migrations.
Start with the Baklunnish indeed inhabiting the southerly realms of what today is said to be old Suel lands (Sea of Dust) and some amount of the Dry Steppes. Bring the Suel in from the SW and into conflict with the Baklunnish. This cultural clash, both militarily, magically, and philosophically (including religion) continues as the Suloise invaders press the Baklunnish ever northward.
The B. resist conquest, but the struggles are as much interrupted by the need for commerce to support the agricultural/lifestyle alterations occurring as part of the movements. Still, the enmities are deeply founded. After the eventual conflict of the Rain of Colorless Fire/Invoked Devastation, the B. are driven in whole northward to the Drawmidj coast.
During this time, the B. also came into conflict with the Oeridians. These embittered nomads had not the strength to resist the B. with some even becoming mercenary forces in the B./S. conflicts. Other tribes of the O. were absorbed into the B., with only the Uli retaining any significant territory unto itself. Over the course of events the momentum of the O. flow westward becomes reversed, sending what portion that retains its cultural/racial identity back into the Flanaess. There, they are followed, at least in some small part, by the B. (who pretty much stop at the Yatils).
The migratory chart of the races found in the '83 Guide (p. 10) is only partially accurate, then, as it does not reflect the "total" movements of the Oeridians and attempts to retrofit their presence south of the Burneal Forest by saying they expanded their population, while still being turned back by the Flannae (what? near) the modern (pre-Wars) Rovers holdings.
It seems far more likely the Oeridians integrated with the Flan inhabitants of the region to create the Chakyik and Wegweir. Still, the text (for the Wolf Nomads, at least) claims these nomads are of B. extraction, verily overlooking the equal O. presence indicated by the p.10 migrations map. For the purposes of explanation, consider that this quantification has been done relatively recently in Flanaess history.
Assuming the some amount of the O. did become racially absorbed by the B. moving northward (perhaps some were already present when the O. got there) from the south, this racial confusion is to be expected. The '83 box gave me a fit on this point when I first read it (oh, long enough ago). The O. were being characterized by their pure-blood appearance, which the cross-breeds didn't possess. The B. were being given credit for the rest, seemingly for no more reason than their historically recent presence west of the Yatils (they're nearby).
My apologies for not being more detailed (but not less long-winded ::smile::). I posted more elaborate explanations back at the beginning of the year, but they were generally overlooked then. Assuming my way of making things terribly complex is actually of interest to folks, I'll try to compile more of it together in the coming months for posting. (I say months because the holiday seasons are virtually upon us, and y'all know what a bear it is to work during them, and because of other projects *demanding* my time.)
Placing GH legends in chronology
From: Mark Barazzuol [markb@intergate.bc.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 11 :36 AM
To: 'greyhawk@MPGN.COM'
Subject: RE: [GREYHAWK] - Placing GH legends in chronology
I am attempting to place several of the historical and legendary figures of Oerth in a chronological order to help determine the possible influence and interaction between them.
I am looking for info on the powerful Mages, Liches and King-Priests ofhistory such as:
Tuerny, Lum, Acerak, Vecna, Tsojcanth, Cuthbert, and any others that come to mind.
Most of the time, all the books give you is "A long time back," or many centuries ago ..
Tuerny had influence over part of the great kingdom if I remember correctly, he may have controlled all of it at one time with his demonic servants. The artifact later turned on it's creator, and well, let's just say the rest is what you see of Tuerny now .. Given that time frame, it would put him in Early Great Kingdom history. Depending on the way you look at it possibly even before the formation of the great kingdom. (If you believe there was civilized life there before ..
Baron Lum was a noble under the rule of one of the Kings of Aerdy. He had - quite a rivalry going between himself and Leuk-o another who discovered one of those technological artifacts. He is definitly one of those early great kingdom personages too. No firm dates given.
Acerak is easily the most ancient of those you listed there. With the POSSIBLE exeception of Tsojcanth, depending on how you look at his time period. We know Acerak's empire was around the Sunndi area, and it existed before that place turned into a swamp. Given that there is no record of it with even early Great Kingdom history I would place them at least 500 years before the migration. Probally even 1000. Also given that Acerack had to be extremely old at that time. I would say the kingdom itself would have had to have lasted at very least 1000 years. (It does take a while for a lich to turn to dust..)
There is so much conflicting stuff on Vecna I can't really tell you .. Probally 1000+ years ago his empire was around. I wouldn't make it too much more than that.. I also don't even know where his empire was supposed to be. Early TSR docs seem to point to the West, somewhere in either the Suel or Oerdian empires. The most current docs point to around the Nyr Dyv area. Go figure ..
To find out how Tsojcanth was you just have to figure, when was the last time Tharizdun was active on Oerth? Given what horrors this guy is responsible for, I'd say he predates any of the history books for any races here. I'd put him 10,000 years back... He seems to be in a time period all to himself.
Cuthbert? No one has even speculated that before.. How old is Celestian? Or Farlanghn? Who knows? It's probally got to take a while to get up to that status. Realistically, I don't see any of the gods with "Medevil" styles to them originating on Oerth at all. Back when they were actually mortal (if they ever were .. ) the time period wouldn't have reached a Medevil point in Oerth culture.. No, probally like Mayheine they migrated. Maybe it wasn't from too far though .. Remember, there's lots of life on some of the other planets in the Oerth solar system. Some like Kule which have had long dead civilizations.. Who knows?
Suloise Conundrum
From: ACERERAK@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 8:29 PM
To: greyhawk@MPGN.COM
Subject: [GREYHAWK] - Re: The Suloise Conundrum
<< ... But doesn't their calendar predate that of the Elves?»
Yes, there is approximately a 1,000 year difference between the Olven calendar and the Suel calender. In the year 576 CY (Common Year), it was 6091 SD (Suel Dominion), 5038 OC (Olven Calendar), 3235 BH (Baklunish Hegira), 2726 FT (Flan Tracking), 1220 OR (Oeridan Reckoning). [I'm doing this from memory, so please forgive me if I am off slightly on the names]
<< What sort of picture does everyone else have of the old Suel Dominion? »
Similar to the Roman Empire in structure. Fantastic cities filled with bizarre sights (as compared to "today"). A center of commerce with merchants from all over the world. Terraforming on a massive scale, with the help of magic.
The further away from the capital one gets the less "magical" things become. Walk down the capital city street and you might see a fountain that spews water from thin air, but get out to the fringes and all you see are forts.
Griffon riders would not be uncommon. Bizarre monsters used for manual labor, as well as slaves consisting of humanoids, demi-humans, and non-Suel. A widely segregated city structure - pure Suel in one area, everyone else in another. There may be a caste system which takes "citizenship" into account, and is a goal often strived for. Corruption is rampant within the government and bribery is a way of life. Business is booming, and the imperial coinage is very different from anything seen today. Flying ships land in the port and bring wares from off planet.
We know for sure there is a civil war of sorts going on within the Empire, not to mention an external war with a powerful enemy. Of course, the external war only lasted 63 years, having begane in 5061 SD and ended in 5094 SD. Hmmm, the Scarlet Brotherhood was formed in 5091 SD. I wonder if they had anything to do with it?
<< Post-war Pro-Aerdy Oeridian propaganda paints a very unpleasant picture of them.>>
I tend to think the survivors were the creme de la creme of Lawful Evil arrogant aristocrats and various Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Evil warrior types who turned to pillaging after their empire was left in ruins. The Suel Basin was most likely filled with "average" people just as the Flanaess is, consisting of farmers. miners, and merchants.
I imagine a lot of monsters were made extinct in the Suel Basin for the safety of its citizens by the government, "Another family of Umber Hulks attacked a village? Sergeant take a battalion and wipe out the whole herd. I'm tired of these interruptions by local fauna!" The Suel Basin was likely a safe place to live in until, well, the untimely end.
<< That is another consideration. How biased was Pluffet Smedger? »
He didn't exist. For all intents and purposes, he was Gary Gygax. However, should we decide to write in a bias to be clever, this seems unlikely. Smedger did not write 99% of the Greyhawk account, he merely created glossographies and compiled the whole into an encyclopedia, and then in turn created D&D to "aid his study". The "Savant-Sage" wrote the account, and it is his original bias that may need examining.
The Savant-Sage lived in Greyhawk city during Oerth's "Epoch of Magic", whatever that is. He compiled an epic 7-volume work called, "Catalogue of the Land Flanaess ... ", but only the third volume survives: "A Guide to the World of Greyhawk". When the Savant-Sage died the work disappeared, but turned up vears later in an lllithid lair in the Rift Canyon. This copy was brought to Rel Mord where it was examined by Pluffet Smedger the Elder, a historian and scholar. Smedger did add some recent or missing information, but by and large the work is the enigmatic Savant-Sage.
~Randy
World of Greyhawk Fan Club
http://members.aol.com/WoGFanClub/woghome.html
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Saturday, November 14, 2009
Re: Humanoids in Greyhawk
Priority: Normal
Date sent: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:16:22 -0400
Send reply to: Keith Horsfield
From: Keith Horsfield
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: “GailnRoger@aol.com”
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Hi Roger,
I hope you don't mind me sharing this with the GreyTalk list.
>The comments in the 1980 gaz don't rule out humanoids in the Flanaess,
>however.
Well, when parsing 17 year old text meant for gaming purposes and not scholarly research (though some of us go that far) nothing is ever ruled out.
>It is logical that they were there, causing trouble for the Flannae
>and demihumans.
It may be logical in the 'normal' fantasy world, but given several factors I plan on viewing it differently.
1) The Flannae racial make-up just does not strike me as one that has had to deal with much physical strife prior to the migrations. They were easily subjugated (or pushed aside) by the influx of the oerdians and the suel not to mention the warring bands of humanoids.
2) The passages that I mentioned earlier just strike me almost superfluous if there were humanoids already present in the Flanaess east of the mountains (see below). The timeline though sparse makes a point that humanoids were used as mercenaries. Why? This can go without saying unless there was some other import. The passages then emphasize that the humanoids drive the oeridians forward into the Flanaess and then that the hordes fragmented. This implies that the hordes spread out and populated the Flanaess. The only word not used in conjunction with this movement of hordes of humanoids is 'migration'.
FWIW, I'm actually thinking of running a campaign on the following premise:
Timeframe: Prior to the Oeridian, Suel and humanoid migrations. Probably well before, like -5 FT.
Setting: It will be a rather idyllic setting with no humanoids. Faerie/sylvan folk oriented with a heavy accent on celtic myth and the sidhe. The Flannae will either be in their own bronze or iron age.
Conflict: Elf vs. Flannae (man)
Premise: The Flannae were not always such a peaceful nature loving folk and could have repulsed the migrations of the Oeridians, Suloise and humanoids if only they had not been totally subjugated by the elves in a long forgotten war which decimated the Flannae civilization and forced them into a culture of small tribes/clans.
Consequences: Why is there no remaining animosity between the elves and Flannae?
1) This was happened in the far distant past. The very fact it happened prior to the migrations puts it 1,000 years ago. If we were to use this war as the starting date for Flannae calendar we are now talking almost 3,000 years ago. Elves may remember the war and the consequences, but not mere mortal humans.
2) The positives that came out of the subjugation by the elves.
Initially, resistance would be high. But over time the culture of the [missing word?] relation on how to live with the world around the flannae (I.e. nature) take the sting out of losing. Over time as the Flannae adapt the the cultural morals of the elves to their own system of beliefs, history would be rewritten. Here is the beginnings of the 'Old Faith.' With such a [missing word] and the new ethics within the flan culture, harboring animosity towards their own saviors (though this part would probably be forgotten and rewritten so that someone of their own kind came up with the idea) would be counterproductive to their new way of life.
>There just happened to be a lot of them in the Yatils/Barrier
>peaks/Crystalmists chain, and they were suitable for mercenary work if
>you weren't picky. However, they were more trouble than they were
>worth in the long run.
Granted. I was overreaching in my arguments and now have revised them so that humanoid populations were no further east than the barrier mountains (I use this term to include the Yatils, Barrier Peaks, Crystalmists and Hellfurnaces). Why no further east? Those darn pesky demi-humans knew a good thing when they saw it and did their utmost to guard the barrier mountains from incursions.
>I think the Oeridians originally lived around Ull, but abandoned it
>due to pressure from humanoid armies of the Baklunish. The Oeridians
>probably didn't get along with the Baklunish, either.
Hmm, not satisfied here. I understand when looking at the migration pictures in the published material that the oeridians are shown as starting from an area around Ull. But, the closest country with any oeridian blood in it is Ket (see Ref Card #2 FtA) and Ket is along the migration route of the oeridians. I envisioned the Oeridians moving through the Dry Steppes from somewhere to the west. Reasoning. The Dry Stepps prior to the Invoked Devastation were populated by Baklunish and Horse Barbarians. Placing the oeridians in a geographical position surrounded by the baklunish would only make them a subculture of the Baklunish. Something I think we can both agree that they are not.
Also, the relative newness of the oeridian calendar, i.e. 260 OR when the Baklunish-Suloise wars begins, implies that some major event happened relatively recently (when compared to the other human cultures). One theory could be the beginning of the actual oeridian migration from points farther west due to their own catastrophe.
Oeridians of that time period, the Baklunish-Suloise wars and migrations, were also said to have very powerful magics. Yet when we talk about the areas just west of the barrier mountains and look at the published material invariably we are only dealing with either ancient Suloise or Baklunish cultures. This says to me that the oeridians came from farther west.
Lastly, I would like to thank you for your response to this and feedback I've been sending. I know my feedback has been quite blunt at times, but I will strive to offer solutions to any criticisms I may have least well thought out reasoning why my opinion differs.
Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
E-mail: afn09454@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454
Brought to you by OS/2
Date sent: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:16:22 -0400
Send reply to: Keith Horsfield
From: Keith Horsfield
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: “GailnRoger@aol.com”
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Hi Roger,
I hope you don't mind me sharing this with the GreyTalk list.
>The comments in the 1980 gaz don't rule out humanoids in the Flanaess,
>however.
Well, when parsing 17 year old text meant for gaming purposes and not scholarly research (though some of us go that far) nothing is ever ruled out.
>It is logical that they were there, causing trouble for the Flannae
>and demihumans.
It may be logical in the 'normal' fantasy world, but given several factors I plan on viewing it differently.
1) The Flannae racial make-up just does not strike me as one that has had to deal with much physical strife prior to the migrations. They were easily subjugated (or pushed aside) by the influx of the oerdians and the suel not to mention the warring bands of humanoids.
2) The passages that I mentioned earlier just strike me almost superfluous if there were humanoids already present in the Flanaess east of the mountains (see below). The timeline though sparse makes a point that humanoids were used as mercenaries. Why? This can go without saying unless there was some other import. The passages then emphasize that the humanoids drive the oeridians forward into the Flanaess and then that the hordes fragmented. This implies that the hordes spread out and populated the Flanaess. The only word not used in conjunction with this movement of hordes of humanoids is 'migration'.
FWIW, I'm actually thinking of running a campaign on the following premise:
Timeframe: Prior to the Oeridian, Suel and humanoid migrations. Probably well before, like -5 FT.
Setting: It will be a rather idyllic setting with no humanoids. Faerie/sylvan folk oriented with a heavy accent on celtic myth and the sidhe. The Flannae will either be in their own bronze or iron age.
Conflict: Elf vs. Flannae (man)
Premise: The Flannae were not always such a peaceful nature loving folk and could have repulsed the migrations of the Oeridians, Suloise and humanoids if only they had not been totally subjugated by the elves in a long forgotten war which decimated the Flannae civilization and forced them into a culture of small tribes/clans.
Consequences: Why is there no remaining animosity between the elves and Flannae?
1) This was happened in the far distant past. The very fact it happened prior to the migrations puts it 1,000 years ago. If we were to use this war as the starting date for Flannae calendar we are now talking almost 3,000 years ago. Elves may remember the war and the consequences, but not mere mortal humans.
2) The positives that came out of the subjugation by the elves.
Initially, resistance would be high. But over time the culture of the [missing word?] relation on how to live with the world around the flannae (I.e. nature) take the sting out of losing. Over time as the Flannae adapt the the cultural morals of the elves to their own system of beliefs, history would be rewritten. Here is the beginnings of the 'Old Faith.' With such a [missing word] and the new ethics within the flan culture, harboring animosity towards their own saviors (though this part would probably be forgotten and rewritten so that someone of their own kind came up with the idea) would be counterproductive to their new way of life.
>There just happened to be a lot of them in the Yatils/Barrier
>peaks/Crystalmists chain, and they were suitable for mercenary work if
>you weren't picky. However, they were more trouble than they were
>worth in the long run.
Granted. I was overreaching in my arguments and now have revised them so that humanoid populations were no further east than the barrier mountains (I use this term to include the Yatils, Barrier Peaks, Crystalmists and Hellfurnaces). Why no further east? Those darn pesky demi-humans knew a good thing when they saw it and did their utmost to guard the barrier mountains from incursions.
>I think the Oeridians originally lived around Ull, but abandoned it
>due to pressure from humanoid armies of the Baklunish. The Oeridians
>probably didn't get along with the Baklunish, either.
Hmm, not satisfied here. I understand when looking at the migration pictures in the published material that the oeridians are shown as starting from an area around Ull. But, the closest country with any oeridian blood in it is Ket (see Ref Card #2 FtA) and Ket is along the migration route of the oeridians. I envisioned the Oeridians moving through the Dry Steppes from somewhere to the west. Reasoning. The Dry Stepps prior to the Invoked Devastation were populated by Baklunish and Horse Barbarians. Placing the oeridians in a geographical position surrounded by the baklunish would only make them a subculture of the Baklunish. Something I think we can both agree that they are not.
Also, the relative newness of the oeridian calendar, i.e. 260 OR when the Baklunish-Suloise wars begins, implies that some major event happened relatively recently (when compared to the other human cultures). One theory could be the beginning of the actual oeridian migration from points farther west due to their own catastrophe.
Oeridians of that time period, the Baklunish-Suloise wars and migrations, were also said to have very powerful magics. Yet when we talk about the areas just west of the barrier mountains and look at the published material invariably we are only dealing with either ancient Suloise or Baklunish cultures. This says to me that the oeridians came from farther west.
Lastly, I would like to thank you for your response to this and feedback I've been sending. I know my feedback has been quite blunt at times, but I will strive to offer solutions to any criticisms I may have least well thought out reasoning why my opinion differs.
Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
E-mail: afn09454@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454
Brought to you by OS/2
Wednesday, September 9, 2009
Re: Humanoids in Greyhawk
Date sent: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:24:10 +1000
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: “Valerian J. Vortex”
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: Keith Horsfield
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Keith Horsfield wrote:
> I knew this was gonna resurface ;-) FWIW, I'm attempting to do
> two things here 1) Determine whether humanoids existed in the Flanaess
> east of the barrier mountains (Yatils/Barrier
> Peaks/Crystalmists/Hellfurnaces) and 2) Determine where the oerdians
> originally came from in accordance with published material (I.e. the
> migration maps and the relevant passages stating that humanoids drove
> the oeridians northward and eastward).
>
> As to #1 I'm leaning to the side that humanoids migrated along with
> the oerdians and suel.
I agree, but the term “humanoids” covers a lot of ground. The humanoid mercenaries used in the Bak-Suel wars were mostly Euroz IMC, so they migrated eastward. Other humanoids...well, this might take a while...
IMC, there are three basic races of humanoids: Euroz, Kell and Jebline. Kobolds (Celbit) are a small, cunning subspecies of Gnoll (Kell). Goblins (Jebline) are “fairies gone bad”, who usually harass humans by creating inconveniences – laming horses, stealing stuff, ruining crops – rather than risking open combat. Hojebline (hobgoblins) are bigger offshoots of the previous who lack the ability to create annoying cantrips. Hobgoblins are more inclined enter combat. As for Euroz, well an orc is an orc is an orc...
Anyway...
In prehistory, Olves, Dwur, and Kell fought over the Flanaess. The Flannae arrived later, after a particularly nasty period in the war, and were able to create a niche for themselves and defend it against all comers. This golden age of the Flanic culture is best remembered in the legends of Vecna, the Isle of Woe and the Ur Flanae, although most of the Flanae had access to only primitive technology. At the same time, the Suloise Empire was reaching its peak, and a number of Dwur, Kell and Olve kingdoms covered the Flanaess, existing at a late bronze age stage of development (with the Kell slightly behind).
The Kell in particular were hardest pressed by the human newcomers, and olven and dwur assistance (seeing the chance to cripple one of their ancestral foes) allowed the Flanae to virtually erase any traces of the Kell civilization. The ferocity of the Flanae surprised the Elves and Dwarves, and after the sacking of the Great Library of the Kell at Gvang-Oekugh, the allied policy successfully changed its emphasis to limited contact with the humans and to disrupt the cohesiveness and development of the “fast-breeding” Flanae.
It was against this backdro that the Oeridians arrived, with the Suloise and Euroz following shortly after: scattered outposts of (usually) backwards Flan with a wide variety of cultural identities (eg. Geoff -v- Tenh -v- Perrenland -v- the Rovers; see also “The Languages of Greyhawk” and occasional contacts with other demihumans suggesting well-established but hidden, Dwur and Olven governments. By this stage, the Kell had descended into the savagery by which they are known today. (Jebline had always existed in the same way that the dragons or the lizard men existed there, but not in numbers sufficient to form any social structure of notes.)
The newcomers arrived in such numbers and with such racial cohesiveness that the Dwuf and Olves could do little to prevent their overrunning the plains and grasslands of the Flanaess. After a few centuries, the demihumans began to appreciate that humans were generally more open to cooperation than the Euroz were, and negotiations formally recognised established understandings. Such negotiations have resulted in the recognition of the borders of Celene, the Spindrift Isles and the Highfolk (other demihuman kingdoms, such as the Olven realm of Gaolin in the Dreadwood, are generally not recognized by the more powerful human governments who claim their territories), or recognition of demihuman citizenship and participation in government (eg. Verbobonc or the Ulek states).
Well that's about it off the top of my head, if people want more details I'll have to cart my folder in from home.
Ken Barns
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: “Valerian J. Vortex”
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: Keith Horsfield
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Keith Horsfield wrote:
> I knew this was gonna resurface ;-) FWIW, I'm attempting to do
> two things here 1) Determine whether humanoids existed in the Flanaess
> east of the barrier mountains (Yatils/Barrier
> Peaks/Crystalmists/Hellfurnaces) and 2) Determine where the oerdians
> originally came from in accordance with published material (I.e. the
> migration maps and the relevant passages stating that humanoids drove
> the oeridians northward and eastward).
>
> As to #1 I'm leaning to the side that humanoids migrated along with
> the oerdians and suel.
I agree, but the term “humanoids” covers a lot of ground. The humanoid mercenaries used in the Bak-Suel wars were mostly Euroz IMC, so they migrated eastward. Other humanoids...well, this might take a while...
IMC, there are three basic races of humanoids: Euroz, Kell and Jebline. Kobolds (Celbit) are a small, cunning subspecies of Gnoll (Kell). Goblins (Jebline) are “fairies gone bad”, who usually harass humans by creating inconveniences – laming horses, stealing stuff, ruining crops – rather than risking open combat. Hojebline (hobgoblins) are bigger offshoots of the previous who lack the ability to create annoying cantrips. Hobgoblins are more inclined enter combat. As for Euroz, well an orc is an orc is an orc...
Anyway...
In prehistory, Olves, Dwur, and Kell fought over the Flanaess. The Flannae arrived later, after a particularly nasty period in the war, and were able to create a niche for themselves and defend it against all comers. This golden age of the Flanic culture is best remembered in the legends of Vecna, the Isle of Woe and the Ur Flanae, although most of the Flanae had access to only primitive technology. At the same time, the Suloise Empire was reaching its peak, and a number of Dwur, Kell and Olve kingdoms covered the Flanaess, existing at a late bronze age stage of development (with the Kell slightly behind).
The Kell in particular were hardest pressed by the human newcomers, and olven and dwur assistance (seeing the chance to cripple one of their ancestral foes) allowed the Flanae to virtually erase any traces of the Kell civilization. The ferocity of the Flanae surprised the Elves and Dwarves, and after the sacking of the Great Library of the Kell at Gvang-Oekugh, the allied policy successfully changed its emphasis to limited contact with the humans and to disrupt the cohesiveness and development of the “fast-breeding” Flanae.
It was against this backdro that the Oeridians arrived, with the Suloise and Euroz following shortly after: scattered outposts of (usually) backwards Flan with a wide variety of cultural identities (eg. Geoff -v- Tenh -v- Perrenland -v- the Rovers; see also “The Languages of Greyhawk” and occasional contacts with other demihumans suggesting well-established but hidden, Dwur and Olven governments. By this stage, the Kell had descended into the savagery by which they are known today. (Jebline had always existed in the same way that the dragons or the lizard men existed there, but not in numbers sufficient to form any social structure of notes.)
The newcomers arrived in such numbers and with such racial cohesiveness that the Dwuf and Olves could do little to prevent their overrunning the plains and grasslands of the Flanaess. After a few centuries, the demihumans began to appreciate that humans were generally more open to cooperation than the Euroz were, and negotiations formally recognised established understandings. Such negotiations have resulted in the recognition of the borders of Celene, the Spindrift Isles and the Highfolk (other demihuman kingdoms, such as the Olven realm of Gaolin in the Dreadwood, are generally not recognized by the more powerful human governments who claim their territories), or recognition of demihuman citizenship and participation in government (eg. Verbobonc or the Ulek states).
Well that's about it off the top of my head, if people want more details I'll have to cart my folder in from home.
Ken Barns
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.
Monday, July 13, 2009
Hardby: Ilshar Aki
Subject: [GREYTALK] Hardby: Ilshar Aki
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:44:27 EDT
From: ""
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
This post is mostly inspired by Chris Jarvis' concept of Ra'al'tsvar, the keepers of the sacred bloodlines. I absolutely adore his work on ancient societies of Oerth. Basically, what I'm attempting to do here is use this concept in the context of Hardby as described in The Adventure Begins and Artifact of Evil, and the Suel language and culture from The Scarlet Brotherhood accessory. I am using tSB's Suel language, though in Jarvis' terms it should probably read Il'shar'aki, or perhaps Il'shar'tsvar. If I'm horribly misusing his ideas, I apologize.
Begin:
In the wake of the Rain of Colorless Fire, many heresies sprung up in an attempt to deal with the changes forced up on Suloise society. For a while, one of the most prevalent was allowing the belief in the sacred matrilinear bloodlines along which magical potency is passed to fill the vacuum left by the old hierarchies of power. For some, this reverence for bloodlines manifested itself as severe racial intolerance, a fear that purity was the highest and most holy goal remaining, some going so far as to create deliberate human breeding programs. For others, it meant that all of the remaining power went to the carriers of the blood -- the women (among the Cruskii and the Shnaii, it meant that women were actively repressed for fear of their potential influence, and the female thaumaturgii were forced to go underground as witches. The Fruztii remained egalitarian).
The tiny house of Norbe Nehelifon was of the matriarchal persuasion. Mob, the ancient matriarch, saw it as her holy duty to uphold the principle of Shar Aki -- Pure Womanhood -- and nearly destroyed her house warring against the barbarious Oeridians, who treated their guardians of purity like chattel. Her grandaughter Ena was wiser, and lead the survivors of the family (including such historical figures as Molly and Jaka Norbe) to the promisingly-named Wild Coast.
It was not to be. The Coast was too crowded already with crass bandits and desperados scarcely better than Oeridians, ruling each other by strength and force of arms, ignoring their ancient roots and connection to the subtle arts entirely. The Norbes moved on and settled in a deepwater port across the Wooly Bay, trading with and learning to survive from the matriarchal Flan tribes.
It was from the Flan that the new settlement -- called Il Shar Aki by the Norbes, and Harada (later vulgarized as Hard Bay, then Hardby) by the natives -- was to gain much of its culture. While still governed by the principles of its Suel founders, the daughters of Ilshar Aki found that the rather limited pantheon of Wee Jas, Xerbo and Osprem didn't serve them in their new home half so well as the goddesses of the Flan. A temple to Beory was concecrated in the first farms under instructions from the Flan as they taught the new settlements in agriculture, but the goddess that spoke loudest to the settlers was Ehlonna, the Horned Lady. Associated by the locals with moons, magic, the forest, and armed protection from those who would desecrate her, Ehlonna seemed to be the core of everything the Norbes were striving for. While Ena's name is included on the foundation stone of Ehlonna's first great church, and her body was laid to rest in the family tomb there, it isn't clear that the first Despotrix herself ever worshipped anyone but Wee Jas. Certainly, no invocations to the Horned Lady ever appeared in her tomb. Nevertheless, by the time of Ena Norbe's death, Ehlonna's reverence was
firmly entrenched.
Hardby today isn't the dominatrix paradise it is sometimes made out to be by prejudiced sailors and boastful townsfolk. It's a cosmopolitan port, and the casual visitor won't notice any marked differences from any of the other free ports in the domain of Greyhawk and the Wild Coast. Hardby depends on trade for its wealth, and it will do nothing to discourage visitors. Longtime and frequent residents know, however, that the city's balance of power is firmly in the hands of the women. Temples exist that cater to most of the Flanaess' gods and philosophies, but the biggest are the Jasidan, Ospremi, Beoric, and Istusian cathedrals, towering over the port town's skyline.
The philosophy of "Shar Aki" (still in the name inscribed in the city's record books) today refers less to the purity of fleshy blood (Hardby is now firmly multiethnic) than to the "flow" of the world and women's connection to it. The polis of Hardby believes that only women are fit to rule because only women are capable of truly understanding their place in Her greater scheme. This philosophy has also carried over to combat, and female knights are more common than male. Don't mistake this for some drippy New Age mantra; the female powers are old and fierce, and the Oerth's blood runs thick with hate as much as love. The original idea of the sacred bloodline still has currency among magical residents, though no racial stigma is attatched. Magical potential is searched for without regard to racial origin, as the existence of the half-gnomish illusionist Guma Norbe confirms.
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:44:27 EDT
From: "
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
This post is mostly inspired by Chris Jarvis' concept of Ra'al'tsvar, the keepers of the sacred bloodlines. I absolutely adore his work on ancient societies of Oerth. Basically, what I'm attempting to do here is use this concept in the context of Hardby as described in The Adventure Begins and Artifact of Evil, and the Suel language and culture from The Scarlet Brotherhood accessory. I am using tSB's Suel language, though in Jarvis' terms it should probably read Il'shar'aki, or perhaps Il'shar'tsvar. If I'm horribly misusing his ideas, I apologize.
Begin:
In the wake of the Rain of Colorless Fire, many heresies sprung up in an attempt to deal with the changes forced up on Suloise society. For a while, one of the most prevalent was allowing the belief in the sacred matrilinear bloodlines along which magical potency is passed to fill the vacuum left by the old hierarchies of power. For some, this reverence for bloodlines manifested itself as severe racial intolerance, a fear that purity was the highest and most holy goal remaining, some going so far as to create deliberate human breeding programs. For others, it meant that all of the remaining power went to the carriers of the blood -- the women (among the Cruskii and the Shnaii, it meant that women were actively repressed for fear of their potential influence, and the female thaumaturgii were forced to go underground as witches. The Fruztii remained egalitarian).
The tiny house of Norbe Nehelifon was of the matriarchal persuasion. Mob, the ancient matriarch, saw it as her holy duty to uphold the principle of Shar Aki -- Pure Womanhood -- and nearly destroyed her house warring against the barbarious Oeridians, who treated their guardians of purity like chattel. Her grandaughter Ena was wiser, and lead the survivors of the family (including such historical figures as Molly and Jaka Norbe) to the promisingly-named Wild Coast.
It was not to be. The Coast was too crowded already with crass bandits and desperados scarcely better than Oeridians, ruling each other by strength and force of arms, ignoring their ancient roots and connection to the subtle arts entirely. The Norbes moved on and settled in a deepwater port across the Wooly Bay, trading with and learning to survive from the matriarchal Flan tribes.
It was from the Flan that the new settlement -- called Il Shar Aki by the Norbes, and Harada (later vulgarized as Hard Bay, then Hardby) by the natives -- was to gain much of its culture. While still governed by the principles of its Suel founders, the daughters of Ilshar Aki found that the rather limited pantheon of Wee Jas, Xerbo and Osprem didn't serve them in their new home half so well as the goddesses of the Flan. A temple to Beory was concecrated in the first farms under instructions from the Flan as they taught the new settlements in agriculture, but the goddess that spoke loudest to the settlers was Ehlonna, the Horned Lady. Associated by the locals with moons, magic, the forest, and armed protection from those who would desecrate her, Ehlonna seemed to be the core of everything the Norbes were striving for. While Ena's name is included on the foundation stone of Ehlonna's first great church, and her body was laid to rest in the family tomb there, it isn't clear that the first Despotrix herself ever worshipped anyone but Wee Jas. Certainly, no invocations to the Horned Lady ever appeared in her tomb. Nevertheless, by the time of Ena Norbe's death, Ehlonna's reverence was
firmly entrenched.
Hardby today isn't the dominatrix paradise it is sometimes made out to be by prejudiced sailors and boastful townsfolk. It's a cosmopolitan port, and the casual visitor won't notice any marked differences from any of the other free ports in the domain of Greyhawk and the Wild Coast. Hardby depends on trade for its wealth, and it will do nothing to discourage visitors. Longtime and frequent residents know, however, that the city's balance of power is firmly in the hands of the women. Temples exist that cater to most of the Flanaess' gods and philosophies, but the biggest are the Jasidan, Ospremi, Beoric, and Istusian cathedrals, towering over the port town's skyline.
The philosophy of "Shar Aki" (still in the name inscribed in the city's record books) today refers less to the purity of fleshy blood (Hardby is now firmly multiethnic) than to the "flow" of the world and women's connection to it. The polis of Hardby believes that only women are fit to rule because only women are capable of truly understanding their place in Her greater scheme. This philosophy has also carried over to combat, and female knights are more common than male. Don't mistake this for some drippy New Age mantra; the female powers are old and fierce, and the Oerth's blood runs thick with hate as much as love. The original idea of the sacred bloodline still has currency among magical residents, though no racial stigma is attatched. Magical potential is searched for without regard to racial origin, as the existence of the half-gnomish illusionist Guma Norbe confirms.
Friday, May 29, 2009
Aerdi Overkings, version 2.0
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 01:05AM PDT
From: Taras Guarhoth Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail Blocker
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Aerdi Overkings, version 2.0
Ok, it's been a while since I first posted this, but, well, here's version 2, after learing of another potential Overking from some Ravenloft novel (see the footnotes) and a suggestion or two from a certain lurking individual who goes by the name of Gary Holian (who REALLY ought to post).
Comments and suggests (espically about changing some of the names) are welcomed and encouraged.
Aerdi Overkings
1 CY 32 CY Nasran Cradnen [1]
32 CY 66 CY Serrand Cranden
66 CY 75 CY Tenmeris Cranden [2]
75 CY 86 CY Yalranda Cranden [3]
86 CY 95 CY Manshen Rax-Nyrond [4]
95 CY 122 CY Erhart I Rax-Nyrond [5]
122 CY 136 CY Toran I Rax-Nyrond
136 CY 181 CY Erhart II Rax-Nyrond [6]
181 CY 213 CY Jirenen Rax-Nyrond
213 CY 247 CY Corazell Rax-Nyrond
247 CY 286 CY Edron Rax-Nyrond [7]
286 CY 301 CY Toran II Rax-Nyrond
301 CY 305 CY Erhart III Rax-Nyrond
305 CY 329 CY Toran III Rax-Nyrond
329 CY 355 CY Toran IV Rax-Nyrond
355 CY 396 CY Portillan Rax(-Nyrond) [8]
396 CY 404 CY Galren Rax [9]
404 CY 407 CY Sonnend Rax [10]
407 CY 419 CY Montand Rax
419 CY 436 CY Grendemmen Rax
436 CY 437 CY Nalif Rax [11]
437 CY 446 CY Inserruction - No Overking
446 CY 494 CY Ivid I Naelex [12]
494 CY 497 CY Ivid II Naelex [13]
497 CY 526 CY Ivid III Naelex
526 CY 556 CY Ivid IV Naelex
556 CY present Ivid V Naelex [14]
Notes:
[1] Ivid the Undying - First Overking, crowned in 1 CY.
[2] Ivid the Undying - Grandson of Nasran, died in 75 CY, and was succeeded by his wife, Yalranda.
[3] Ivid the Undying - Only Overqueen. Wife of Tenmeris. Lived to be only 40.
[4] Ivid the Undying - Eldest son of Yalranda, took the last name Rax-Nyrond.
[5] Dragon 230 "The Orbs of Dragonkind" - was on the throne in 98 CY.
[6] It stands to reason that since there was an Erhart I, there needs to be an Erhart II somewhere in here.
[7] Apparently, the Ravenloft novel "King of the Dead", which I don't own, seems to indicate that there was someone named Edron as Overking in the year 283 CY.
[8] Ivid the Undying - Was on the throne at the time of Nyrond s rebellion.
[9] Ivid the Undying - Son and heir to Portillan. A half-wit.
[10] Ivid the Undying - Son and heir to Galren. A drunkard.
[11] Ivid the Undying - Last Rax Overking, assassinated (presumably) by Ivid I.
[12] Ivid the Undying - First Naelex Overking. Ruled for 48 years.
[13] Ivid the Undying - Ruled for 3 years.
[14] Ivid the Undying - Became the Overking in 556 CY. Fifth Naelex Overking.
Rax/Rax-Nyrond - The 83 boxed set clearly states that it was house Rax that sat on the throne. Ivid the Undying states that it was Rax-Nyrond. I'd chalk this up to a Sargent error, but, it actually serves a purpose. The '83 boxed set also states that three houses ruled prior to House Naelex, so, if we count Rax and Rax-Nyrond as two different houses, and assume that starting with Overking Portillan, the -Nyrond was dropped to distance the remaining scions of House Rax from their rebellious junior branch, we get three houses. Incidentally, that d make Portillan the last Rax-Nyrond
Overking, and the first Rax Overking.
Taras Guarhoth
http://users.vei.net/wolfiefox/tarasguarhoth/
From: Taras Guarhoth
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Aerdi Overkings, version 2.0
Ok, it's been a while since I first posted this, but, well, here's version 2, after learing of another potential Overking from some Ravenloft novel (see the footnotes) and a suggestion or two from a certain lurking individual who goes by the name of Gary Holian (who REALLY ought to post).
Comments and suggests (espically about changing some of the names) are welcomed and encouraged.
Aerdi Overkings
1 CY 32 CY Nasran Cradnen [1]
32 CY 66 CY Serrand Cranden
66 CY 75 CY Tenmeris Cranden [2]
75 CY 86 CY Yalranda Cranden [3]
86 CY 95 CY Manshen Rax-Nyrond [4]
95 CY 122 CY Erhart I Rax-Nyrond [5]
122 CY 136 CY Toran I Rax-Nyrond
136 CY 181 CY Erhart II Rax-Nyrond [6]
181 CY 213 CY Jirenen Rax-Nyrond
213 CY 247 CY Corazell Rax-Nyrond
247 CY 286 CY Edron Rax-Nyrond [7]
286 CY 301 CY Toran II Rax-Nyrond
301 CY 305 CY Erhart III Rax-Nyrond
305 CY 329 CY Toran III Rax-Nyrond
329 CY 355 CY Toran IV Rax-Nyrond
355 CY 396 CY Portillan Rax(-Nyrond) [8]
396 CY 404 CY Galren Rax [9]
404 CY 407 CY Sonnend Rax [10]
407 CY 419 CY Montand Rax
419 CY 436 CY Grendemmen Rax
436 CY 437 CY Nalif Rax [11]
437 CY 446 CY Inserruction - No Overking
446 CY 494 CY Ivid I Naelex [12]
494 CY 497 CY Ivid II Naelex [13]
497 CY 526 CY Ivid III Naelex
526 CY 556 CY Ivid IV Naelex
556 CY present Ivid V Naelex [14]
Notes:
[1] Ivid the Undying - First Overking, crowned in 1 CY.
[2] Ivid the Undying - Grandson of Nasran, died in 75 CY, and was succeeded by his wife, Yalranda.
[3] Ivid the Undying - Only Overqueen. Wife of Tenmeris. Lived to be only 40.
[4] Ivid the Undying - Eldest son of Yalranda, took the last name Rax-Nyrond.
[5] Dragon 230 "The Orbs of Dragonkind" - was on the throne in 98 CY.
[6] It stands to reason that since there was an Erhart I, there needs to be an Erhart II somewhere in here.
[7] Apparently, the Ravenloft novel "King of the Dead", which I don't own, seems to indicate that there was someone named Edron as Overking in the year 283 CY.
[8] Ivid the Undying - Was on the throne at the time of Nyrond s rebellion.
[9] Ivid the Undying - Son and heir to Portillan. A half-wit.
[10] Ivid the Undying - Son and heir to Galren. A drunkard.
[11] Ivid the Undying - Last Rax Overking, assassinated (presumably) by Ivid I.
[12] Ivid the Undying - First Naelex Overking. Ruled for 48 years.
[13] Ivid the Undying - Ruled for 3 years.
[14] Ivid the Undying - Became the Overking in 556 CY. Fifth Naelex Overking.
Rax/Rax-Nyrond - The 83 boxed set clearly states that it was house Rax that sat on the throne. Ivid the Undying states that it was Rax-Nyrond. I'd chalk this up to a Sargent error, but, it actually serves a purpose. The '83 boxed set also states that three houses ruled prior to House Naelex, so, if we count Rax and Rax-Nyrond as two different houses, and assume that starting with Overking Portillan, the -Nyrond was dropped to distance the remaining scions of House Rax from their rebellious junior branch, we get three houses. Incidentally, that d make Portillan the last Rax-Nyrond
Overking, and the first Rax Overking.
Taras Guarhoth
http://users.vei.net/wolfiefox/tarasguarhoth/
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Re: The Haughtiness of Elves [LONG]
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:12:56 -0800
From: Chris Anderson
Subject: Re: The Haughtiness of Elves [LONG]
One good example deserves another... here's the attitudes from my campaign. Note: I do not consider elves to be evil either, and I use a modified Birthright Elf for the dominant strain in Celene. I also use the "Vecna destroyed the Elven Cities" concept from Tamerlain's timeline.
--
Chris Anderson
The Gravediggers Campaign
http://caa.invite.net/ADnD/default.htm
You're an Elf. First-born of the world. Your ancestors were here when the Dragons and Titans battled for dominance. In times more ancient than memory, your predecessors fought to make the Flanaess safe for all Elves, and in doing so, for all civilized peoples.
You're 300 years old. Barely into your adult years. In your great-grandparent's time (over 1500 years ago) the Flanaess was the cradle of Elven civilization, with glittering cities scattered across the continent, and enjoying a long period of peace and prosperity. The hateful Drow had been put down long before in the Chaos Wars, and the many other Good races in the Flanaess enjoyed the fruits of the Elven civilization. In this time, Celene was a rather rural, backwards place of great natural beauty, but little culture or learning. Of no comparison to the great cities of the Elves.
Then came Vecna.
Originally tutored by the Elves in the Arts, this hateful human had turned on his benefactors and warred against the People. As powerful as Elven Magic was, it could not withstand the viciousness and raw aptitude that Vecna brought to the Arts. He delved into areas which no Elven Mage of Power would dare. He bought Power with unspeakable acts, and made pacts with Forces that should never be thought of or named, much less summoned and bargained with.
City after City fell. Cities which had taken millenia of effort by hundreds or thousands of Elves -- each one designed to be more beautiful and grand than any other. Ground to dust under the unrelenting force of Vecna's power. Treasures which had taken millenia to create were destroyed in moments by savages too barbaric to even understand what they were destroying. Children who had known nothing but joy and delight for all of their lives were raped and tortured by Vecna's soldiers and then sold into slavery and abuse for the price of a loaf of bread.
It went on and on. Every Elven city or nation who dared to oppose Vecna, to avenge themselves, were ground into dust. No Elven House or family in all the Flanaess was unaffected, save for the unspeakable Drow.
And Celene. The Elves of Celene had withdrawn into the fastnesses of their forest and hidden from the might of Vecna. No challenge did they offer, no vengeance did they take. They were fugitives in their own land. At first this was considered a treasonous act by the other Kingdoms of the Elves -- cowardice in the extreme. Yet in the end, Celene survived and the others did not. Across the Flanaess, the only Elves who survived were those who did not go openly into battle, or who fled battle to hide.
Vecna eventually passed. During the same time, came the rampaging Suloise.
Their wandering Houses did not match the power of Vecna, but the Elves were broken and wandering as well. The Suloise killed and destroyed what they found, and the Elves hid again. Only Celene maintained its borders -- militantly watched this time. When the Twin Cataclysm's flared, most Elves heaved a sigh of relief that one more threat had been eliminated. Celene watched and waited.
The Oeridians came, and this time the Elves of the Flanaess were forced to treat with them. With humans. The same race which had caused so much woe. Thankfully, the Oeridians proved to be much more reasonable than the Suloise. The Kingdom of Aerdy was born, and slowly the Elves slipped back from their dens and hiding places to form small communities and mix with the humans.
Celene did not. They had no desire to mix with humans, whether or not they were better or worse than Vecna or the Suloise. If a Vecna could happen once, it could happen again. Humans were not to be trusted or mixed with. Certainly they were never to be allowed in Celene.
Time passed, and a younger generation came to power. They had been raised on the tales of Vecna and seen the effects on their families. Yet at the same time, they had seen for themselves humans living in peace with Elves and other demi-humans in other areas of the Flanaess. Their feelings were mixed. Most felt that humans were not to be trusted or mixed with. A minority felt that they should be exterminated. Another minority thought that Celene should deal with the humans in trade and politics. They were few, though.
More time passed, and the second generation past Vecna came of age. The Hateful Wars occurred. If humans did not help with the threat of the Pomarj, at least they did not fight on the side of the Goblinoids. Again Celene defended it's borders, and again the foe was thrown back. To the West, the Ulek States were rising and were providing an object lesson in Elven and Human accord. Tales of High Folk filtered in, where humans and Elves lived peacefully together.
Yet there were those who still lived that had seen the horror of Vecna personally. And their children who had heard the tales of Vecna and seen the Suloise. Celene was the last precious jewel of Elven civilization left in the Flanaess. It would be criminal to risk it so soon after it was threatened. And to mix with humans? The destroyers of so many Elven kindred? That would be betrayal in the extreme of all those who died and suffered in the Wars Against Vecna. No! The borders would remain closed.
--------------------------------------------
This is the state of affairs as of 579CY in my campaign. The borders are closed to human entry. However, there is a growing sentiment among some of the population that there should be more contact with humanity -- even to the extent of humans living within the borders. The vast majority of Elves believe in isolation from humanity, and there is a strong vocal minority that agitate towards more extreme measures as an act of vengeance against the race that spawned Vecna.
The Lady Yolande believes that Celene will not be able to isolate itself from the rest of the Flanaess for too much longer, as Elves reckon time. Yet, as Elves reckon time, that may be for several centuries longer. The factions jockey for position of influence in the Elven Court, and "the human question" is not yet settled.
From: Chris Anderson
Subject: Re: The Haughtiness of Elves [LONG]
One good example deserves another... here's the attitudes from my campaign. Note: I do not consider elves to be evil either, and I use a modified Birthright Elf for the dominant strain in Celene. I also use the "Vecna destroyed the Elven Cities" concept from Tamerlain's timeline.
--
Chris Anderson
The Gravediggers Campaign
http://caa.invite.net/ADnD/default.htm
You're an Elf. First-born of the world. Your ancestors were here when the Dragons and Titans battled for dominance. In times more ancient than memory, your predecessors fought to make the Flanaess safe for all Elves, and in doing so, for all civilized peoples.
You're 300 years old. Barely into your adult years. In your great-grandparent's time (over 1500 years ago) the Flanaess was the cradle of Elven civilization, with glittering cities scattered across the continent, and enjoying a long period of peace and prosperity. The hateful Drow had been put down long before in the Chaos Wars, and the many other Good races in the Flanaess enjoyed the fruits of the Elven civilization. In this time, Celene was a rather rural, backwards place of great natural beauty, but little culture or learning. Of no comparison to the great cities of the Elves.
Then came Vecna.
Originally tutored by the Elves in the Arts, this hateful human had turned on his benefactors and warred against the People. As powerful as Elven Magic was, it could not withstand the viciousness and raw aptitude that Vecna brought to the Arts. He delved into areas which no Elven Mage of Power would dare. He bought Power with unspeakable acts, and made pacts with Forces that should never be thought of or named, much less summoned and bargained with.
City after City fell. Cities which had taken millenia of effort by hundreds or thousands of Elves -- each one designed to be more beautiful and grand than any other. Ground to dust under the unrelenting force of Vecna's power. Treasures which had taken millenia to create were destroyed in moments by savages too barbaric to even understand what they were destroying. Children who had known nothing but joy and delight for all of their lives were raped and tortured by Vecna's soldiers and then sold into slavery and abuse for the price of a loaf of bread.
It went on and on. Every Elven city or nation who dared to oppose Vecna, to avenge themselves, were ground into dust. No Elven House or family in all the Flanaess was unaffected, save for the unspeakable Drow.
And Celene. The Elves of Celene had withdrawn into the fastnesses of their forest and hidden from the might of Vecna. No challenge did they offer, no vengeance did they take. They were fugitives in their own land. At first this was considered a treasonous act by the other Kingdoms of the Elves -- cowardice in the extreme. Yet in the end, Celene survived and the others did not. Across the Flanaess, the only Elves who survived were those who did not go openly into battle, or who fled battle to hide.
Vecna eventually passed. During the same time, came the rampaging Suloise.
Their wandering Houses did not match the power of Vecna, but the Elves were broken and wandering as well. The Suloise killed and destroyed what they found, and the Elves hid again. Only Celene maintained its borders -- militantly watched this time. When the Twin Cataclysm's flared, most Elves heaved a sigh of relief that one more threat had been eliminated. Celene watched and waited.
The Oeridians came, and this time the Elves of the Flanaess were forced to treat with them. With humans. The same race which had caused so much woe. Thankfully, the Oeridians proved to be much more reasonable than the Suloise. The Kingdom of Aerdy was born, and slowly the Elves slipped back from their dens and hiding places to form small communities and mix with the humans.
Celene did not. They had no desire to mix with humans, whether or not they were better or worse than Vecna or the Suloise. If a Vecna could happen once, it could happen again. Humans were not to be trusted or mixed with. Certainly they were never to be allowed in Celene.
Time passed, and a younger generation came to power. They had been raised on the tales of Vecna and seen the effects on their families. Yet at the same time, they had seen for themselves humans living in peace with Elves and other demi-humans in other areas of the Flanaess. Their feelings were mixed. Most felt that humans were not to be trusted or mixed with. A minority felt that they should be exterminated. Another minority thought that Celene should deal with the humans in trade and politics. They were few, though.
More time passed, and the second generation past Vecna came of age. The Hateful Wars occurred. If humans did not help with the threat of the Pomarj, at least they did not fight on the side of the Goblinoids. Again Celene defended it's borders, and again the foe was thrown back. To the West, the Ulek States were rising and were providing an object lesson in Elven and Human accord. Tales of High Folk filtered in, where humans and Elves lived peacefully together.
Yet there were those who still lived that had seen the horror of Vecna personally. And their children who had heard the tales of Vecna and seen the Suloise. Celene was the last precious jewel of Elven civilization left in the Flanaess. It would be criminal to risk it so soon after it was threatened. And to mix with humans? The destroyers of so many Elven kindred? That would be betrayal in the extreme of all those who died and suffered in the Wars Against Vecna. No! The borders would remain closed.
--------------------------------------------
This is the state of affairs as of 579CY in my campaign. The borders are closed to human entry. However, there is a growing sentiment among some of the population that there should be more contact with humanity -- even to the extent of humans living within the borders. The vast majority of Elves believe in isolation from humanity, and there is a strong vocal minority that agitate towards more extreme measures as an act of vengeance against the race that spawned Vecna.
The Lady Yolande believes that Celene will not be able to isolate itself from the rest of the Flanaess for too much longer, as Elves reckon time. Yet, as Elves reckon time, that may be for several centuries longer. The factions jockey for position of influence in the Elven Court, and "the human question" is not yet settled.
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
elven history...
Subject: [GREYTALK] elven history...
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:04:00 +0000
From: "Farina, Jason"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
I posted a while ago with a passing idea of a dark patch in Elven history and I think I would like to develope the idea a bit more.
The Basics:
Elves have a part of their history that they are ashamed of, and afraid of. When Humans first appeared, they were hunted down like animals by the Elves. They were thought of as an anomoly that was outside of nature and thus threatened to disrupt the harmony the Elves had in the world. Eventually, an enterprising Elf came up with the idea of not killing them but rather using them. Slavery.
So, colonies were formed which the elves used to grow their 'stock', and massive cullings took place periodically. Some humans fled to deep caves. Of these, some met the dwarves who took pity on the humans and sheltered them. They taught them how to make weapons and to defend themselves. The humans, as is their innate ability, adapted extremely well to these new skills. Other humans encountered grisly fates below the ground.
Elven chase parties hunted down the humans. One party followed into the Earth, where elves usually avoided. The Dwarves, fearing the damage a full scale war would inflict on both long-lived races, sadly turned the humans away. They fled further down. The elves followed. And there, in the dark, they met the Drow. The humans were forgotten about as the ancient enemies learned once more of each other's existance. The drow believing that the surface elves had perished under the blazing sun as their Dogma told them (Drizz't books??) and the surface elves believing the Drow long dead beneath the ground. War happened then.
Meanwhile, the humans in the Dwarven camps grew nervous. The dwarves had refused to help other humans. Did the dwarves want the same as the elves? another human quality surfaced. Reasonless Distrust. The humans took their leave of the Dwarves and made for the surface, they left quietly in the night. The dwarves were angry at the rudeness of this act, and the ingratitude of the humans. Shutting their doors they vowed to evermore leave the surface to it's own devices. War raged between the Elven worlds. Caught up in their conflict, the Elves 'forgot' about the humans. Colonies became communities. Cullings grew less frequent. The humans that returned from the Dwarven Kingdoms taught their brothers the art of forging and carving. Generations passed and the elves finally pushed the Drow back. They would have followed them and obliterated their enemies in their own lair if it were not for the new enemy. The humans had learned how to use weapons of their own forging. Their ability to learn had allowed some of them to emulate the magic of the Elves. Some deities (to be decided) had taken the humans under their wings. And they were many. The elves tried a culling, but the humans fought back. And they fought back with generations of hatred. They not only defended themselves but lead invasion after invasion into Elven territory.
OK. That's what I got for now. I am toying with the idea that some of the older elves survived, cut off from the rest of the world, hteir traditions and practises unchanged. The elves are ashamed and afraid of this period in history. Ashamed of their lack of foresight, cruelty and complete lack of their much lauded wisdom. Afraid because, if the humans were to find out it could spark off a whole new wave of
anti-racial feeling among them. Small disputes could evolve into war. And right now, the humans are a lot more powerful than they were all that time ago.
As for the God. I was wondering if the Dwarven connection would be a good excuse for Ulaa? Maybe Titans could be introduced here?
The drow, would this have been before or after Lolth's arrival. Are they lolth or EEG drow? (or some other).
Any comments, suggestions, expansions to the idea or corrections?
Jason.
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:04:00 +0000
From: "Farina, Jason"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
I posted a while ago with a passing idea of a dark patch in Elven history and I think I would like to develope the idea a bit more.
The Basics:
Elves have a part of their history that they are ashamed of, and afraid of. When Humans first appeared, they were hunted down like animals by the Elves. They were thought of as an anomoly that was outside of nature and thus threatened to disrupt the harmony the Elves had in the world. Eventually, an enterprising Elf came up with the idea of not killing them but rather using them. Slavery.
So, colonies were formed which the elves used to grow their 'stock', and massive cullings took place periodically. Some humans fled to deep caves. Of these, some met the dwarves who took pity on the humans and sheltered them. They taught them how to make weapons and to defend themselves. The humans, as is their innate ability, adapted extremely well to these new skills. Other humans encountered grisly fates below the ground.
Elven chase parties hunted down the humans. One party followed into the Earth, where elves usually avoided. The Dwarves, fearing the damage a full scale war would inflict on both long-lived races, sadly turned the humans away. They fled further down. The elves followed. And there, in the dark, they met the Drow. The humans were forgotten about as the ancient enemies learned once more of each other's existance. The drow believing that the surface elves had perished under the blazing sun as their Dogma told them (Drizz't books??) and the surface elves believing the Drow long dead beneath the ground. War happened then.
Meanwhile, the humans in the Dwarven camps grew nervous. The dwarves had refused to help other humans. Did the dwarves want the same as the elves? another human quality surfaced. Reasonless Distrust. The humans took their leave of the Dwarves and made for the surface, they left quietly in the night. The dwarves were angry at the rudeness of this act, and the ingratitude of the humans. Shutting their doors they vowed to evermore leave the surface to it's own devices. War raged between the Elven worlds. Caught up in their conflict, the Elves 'forgot' about the humans. Colonies became communities. Cullings grew less frequent. The humans that returned from the Dwarven Kingdoms taught their brothers the art of forging and carving. Generations passed and the elves finally pushed the Drow back. They would have followed them and obliterated their enemies in their own lair if it were not for the new enemy. The humans had learned how to use weapons of their own forging. Their ability to learn had allowed some of them to emulate the magic of the Elves. Some deities (to be decided) had taken the humans under their wings. And they were many. The elves tried a culling, but the humans fought back. And they fought back with generations of hatred. They not only defended themselves but lead invasion after invasion into Elven territory.
OK. That's what I got for now. I am toying with the idea that some of the older elves survived, cut off from the rest of the world, hteir traditions and practises unchanged. The elves are ashamed and afraid of this period in history. Ashamed of their lack of foresight, cruelty and complete lack of their much lauded wisdom. Afraid because, if the humans were to find out it could spark off a whole new wave of
anti-racial feeling among them. Small disputes could evolve into war. And right now, the humans are a lot more powerful than they were all that time ago.
As for the God. I was wondering if the Dwarven connection would be a good excuse for Ulaa? Maybe Titans could be introduced here?
The drow, would this have been before or after Lolth's arrival. Are they lolth or EEG drow? (or some other).
Any comments, suggestions, expansions to the idea or corrections?
Jason.
Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Artifacts of Greyhawk
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:47:29 EST
From: Gary Welsh
Subject: Artifacts of Greyhawk
Lately, I have been thinking about doing my own timeline for the ancient eras of Greyhawk, and the legend and history of the various artifacts and relics linked to Greyhawk. This is not intended to be canonical, but is purely IMC. In this timeline, I have tried to be true to the old, 1st ed. sources, which may not be to everyone's taste, but that is the flavor I am aiming at.
BEGINNING
The beginning of time predates any of the calendars, including the Suel Dominion. The elves, gnomes and dwarves have a very long oral history, with songs, poems and sagas from thousands of years ago. In these early times which are partly history and mostly myth, the demihumans have stories about the "Age of the Gods" when the gods supposedly walked the Oerth, and they and their minions established realms and battled for supremacy. No one knows how long this "Age of the Gods" was, or just when it ended. One of the stories that might be from this era could be the Battle of Pesh, in which the Wind Dukes of Aaqa (deities of Law) battled with the Queen of Chaos. According to the early stories, the "King of the Gods" sat at the Throne of the Gods, in a gigantic, cavernous hall in an immense mountain somewhere. One reason given for why the "Age of Gods" ended is that the deities did not want to destroy Oerth with their conflicts, and so withdrew to the Outer Planes.
SUEL DOMINION
The oldest calendar dates back to the beginning of the Suel Dominion. The Suel Calendar was applied to a time of which not many records were kept, so its beginnings are also shrouded in myth and legend. All that is known is that the priests and astrologers did develop an increasingly accurate calendar, and retroactively applied their "Year One" to a great event in their own cultural history. After that, for thousands of years, the Suel Dominion evolved into a great and powerful and rich civilization, which moved through several eras, before coming to an end due to the Rain of Colorless Fire in 5094 SD.
OLVEN CALENDAR
In the year 1053 SD, the Olven Calendar begins (OC). It may be that the elves began accurate timekeeping after learning about the Suloise Dominion calendar. Before that, they may simply not have cared much about linear timekeeping and the recording of particular events. The Olven Calendar records the early history of the Realms of the Sun and the Moon in the Flanaess (Sunndi and Celene). The current year (576 CY) on the Olven Calendar is 5038 OC.
BAKLUNI HISTOGRAPHY
In the year 2856 SD, Baklunish nomads established a holy site on Lake Karnoosh, which began the Bakluni Histography. The Baklunish would over the centuries transform from nomads to semi-nomads and finally into a wealthy, enlightened culture that extended from the Dry Steppes to the Sulhaut Mountains to the Drawmij Oceann and west to lands that are now a wasteland. Numerous river valleys, which are now gone, supported vast, glittering cities of a huge and rich Bakluni empire. In 5031 SD, the inevitable happened, and the two great empires collided in wars that lasted for decades and ended with the Twin Cataclysms.
FLANNAE TIMECHART
In 3250 SD, the Flan people of the Flanaess began counting their own time.
The Ur-Flan, Almeks, and Olman people had all been accomplished astrologers and stargazers. The Flannae Timechart was just one of such calendars that came into use -- the one used by the people of the north. The Flannae have often been cited as not being city-dwellers and empire-builders. And that is true, compared to the scale of other people. But the Flannae had their villages, ziggurats, holy sites, and hengestones, as well as stone tablets and hide scrolls which they used to record history in their own fashion. The current year (576 CY) is 2726 FT, as it is still kept in Tenh and parts of Geoff, where the Flan strains are still quite strong.
OERIDIAN RECORD
The Oeridian Record begins scant decades before the migrations of that people began in earnest. It is no doubt dated from the time of a great leader, who began to lead the people to the east. Only 160 years after this Record begins, the Suel-Baklunish wars began. The humanoid hordes were brought in from the far west to serve in the wars, and this pushed the Oeridians to the east. From Ull, they began migrating into the Flanaess. The Oeridians no doubt began keeping a calendar which they borrowed from the Bakluni or the Suel, and instituted their own "Year One." A couple of hundred years later, the Oeridians across the Flanaess were all using this Record, until the Overking of the Aerdy inaugaurated the Common Year One in 645 OR. As Aerdy expanded and conquered, the Calendar of the Common Year came into much broader use.
NOTES ON ARTIFACTS
AXE OF THE DWARVISH LORDS: This artifact dates from the "Age of the Gods" when the legendary figure known as first Dwarven King forged this weapon in the volcanic fires with the aid of a patron god, probably Fortubo or Moradin. It passed from dwarven monarch to dwarven monarch, probably in the Crystalmist or Sulhaut Mountains, until it was lost in the Invoked Devastation (implies that the ancient dwarf monarchy was in or close to the location of the ancient Bakluni empire). It shows up now and again, but now it is supposedly cursed.
BABA YAGA'S HUT: This artifact is indigenous to another Prime Material Plane, from a world parallel to Oerth. The owner may be an alter ego of Iggwilv, the witch Baba Yaga.
CODEX OF THE INFINITE PLANES: In the past, a wizard-priest [Yagrax?] of the Isles of Woe found this artifact and used it to dominate the lands around the Nyr Dyv. It is rumored these massive powers also caused the Isles of Woe to sink. The Codex survived this disaster, and was later used by the archmage Tzunk in his effort to conquer the City of Brass on the Elemental Plane of Fire.
CROWN, ORB AND SCEPTRE OF MIGHT: Each of the three main moral alignments had
its own champions -- Good, Neutrality and Evil. It is said that the great deities of the past created these items of regalia for their viceroys or chosen representatives on Oerth, so that there was an Emperor of Good, of Neutrality, and of Evil. These artifacts date from the late period of the "Age of the Gods", when the gods were beginning to battle each other through mortal representatives.
CRYSTAL OF THE EBON FLAME: This artifact may or may not be related to the Plane of Shadow, or the Realm of the Shadowking. No one knows for sure.
CUP AND TALISMAN OF AL'AKBAR: In the years following the Invoked Devastation,
the gods of the Paynims gave their lawful good high priest these precious artifacts. However, they were lost to demihuman raiders, and were last reported to be somewhere in the southeastern Bandit Kingdoms (Stoink? Dimre? Johrase? Artonsamay? Reyhu?).
EYE AND HAND OF VECNA: Not much is known of this greatest of evil liches, but
it is thought that he ruled a land somewhere on the Flanaess during or before the time of the Great Migrations. In any case, it is thought he was brought low due to the treachery of his trusted lieutenant, Kas, and an enchanted sword which he'd given the warrior. These two evil relics still exist, however, and from time to time pop up to cause havoc once again.
HEWARD'S MYSTICAL ORGAN: This huge pipe-organ is named after the quasi-deity,
Heward, and is mentioned in the Fables of Burdock. It is a great, cumbersome device, probably existing in some extradimensional space somewhere -- possibly accessed by the dungeons of Castle Greyhawk.
HORN OF CHANGE:
INVULNERABLE COAT OF ARND OF TDON: This chain shirt was worn by the legendary
priest Arnd, an Old Oeridian of some forgotten town in the far west. It probably dates from a time prior to the beginning of the Oeridian Record.
From: Gary Welsh
Subject: Artifacts of Greyhawk
Lately, I have been thinking about doing my own timeline for the ancient eras of Greyhawk, and the legend and history of the various artifacts and relics linked to Greyhawk. This is not intended to be canonical, but is purely IMC. In this timeline, I have tried to be true to the old, 1st ed. sources, which may not be to everyone's taste, but that is the flavor I am aiming at.
BEGINNING
The beginning of time predates any of the calendars, including the Suel Dominion. The elves, gnomes and dwarves have a very long oral history, with songs, poems and sagas from thousands of years ago. In these early times which are partly history and mostly myth, the demihumans have stories about the "Age of the Gods" when the gods supposedly walked the Oerth, and they and their minions established realms and battled for supremacy. No one knows how long this "Age of the Gods" was, or just when it ended. One of the stories that might be from this era could be the Battle of Pesh, in which the Wind Dukes of Aaqa (deities of Law) battled with the Queen of Chaos. According to the early stories, the "King of the Gods" sat at the Throne of the Gods, in a gigantic, cavernous hall in an immense mountain somewhere. One reason given for why the "Age of Gods" ended is that the deities did not want to destroy Oerth with their conflicts, and so withdrew to the Outer Planes.
SUEL DOMINION
The oldest calendar dates back to the beginning of the Suel Dominion. The Suel Calendar was applied to a time of which not many records were kept, so its beginnings are also shrouded in myth and legend. All that is known is that the priests and astrologers did develop an increasingly accurate calendar, and retroactively applied their "Year One" to a great event in their own cultural history. After that, for thousands of years, the Suel Dominion evolved into a great and powerful and rich civilization, which moved through several eras, before coming to an end due to the Rain of Colorless Fire in 5094 SD.
OLVEN CALENDAR
In the year 1053 SD, the Olven Calendar begins (OC). It may be that the elves began accurate timekeeping after learning about the Suloise Dominion calendar. Before that, they may simply not have cared much about linear timekeeping and the recording of particular events. The Olven Calendar records the early history of the Realms of the Sun and the Moon in the Flanaess (Sunndi and Celene). The current year (576 CY) on the Olven Calendar is 5038 OC.
BAKLUNI HISTOGRAPHY
In the year 2856 SD, Baklunish nomads established a holy site on Lake Karnoosh, which began the Bakluni Histography. The Baklunish would over the centuries transform from nomads to semi-nomads and finally into a wealthy, enlightened culture that extended from the Dry Steppes to the Sulhaut Mountains to the Drawmij Oceann and west to lands that are now a wasteland. Numerous river valleys, which are now gone, supported vast, glittering cities of a huge and rich Bakluni empire. In 5031 SD, the inevitable happened, and the two great empires collided in wars that lasted for decades and ended with the Twin Cataclysms.
FLANNAE TIMECHART
In 3250 SD, the Flan people of the Flanaess began counting their own time.
The Ur-Flan, Almeks, and Olman people had all been accomplished astrologers and stargazers. The Flannae Timechart was just one of such calendars that came into use -- the one used by the people of the north. The Flannae have often been cited as not being city-dwellers and empire-builders. And that is true, compared to the scale of other people. But the Flannae had their villages, ziggurats, holy sites, and hengestones, as well as stone tablets and hide scrolls which they used to record history in their own fashion. The current year (576 CY) is 2726 FT, as it is still kept in Tenh and parts of Geoff, where the Flan strains are still quite strong.
OERIDIAN RECORD
The Oeridian Record begins scant decades before the migrations of that people began in earnest. It is no doubt dated from the time of a great leader, who began to lead the people to the east. Only 160 years after this Record begins, the Suel-Baklunish wars began. The humanoid hordes were brought in from the far west to serve in the wars, and this pushed the Oeridians to the east. From Ull, they began migrating into the Flanaess. The Oeridians no doubt began keeping a calendar which they borrowed from the Bakluni or the Suel, and instituted their own "Year One." A couple of hundred years later, the Oeridians across the Flanaess were all using this Record, until the Overking of the Aerdy inaugaurated the Common Year One in 645 OR. As Aerdy expanded and conquered, the Calendar of the Common Year came into much broader use.
NOTES ON ARTIFACTS
AXE OF THE DWARVISH LORDS: This artifact dates from the "Age of the Gods" when the legendary figure known as first Dwarven King forged this weapon in the volcanic fires with the aid of a patron god, probably Fortubo or Moradin. It passed from dwarven monarch to dwarven monarch, probably in the Crystalmist or Sulhaut Mountains, until it was lost in the Invoked Devastation (implies that the ancient dwarf monarchy was in or close to the location of the ancient Bakluni empire). It shows up now and again, but now it is supposedly cursed.
BABA YAGA'S HUT: This artifact is indigenous to another Prime Material Plane, from a world parallel to Oerth. The owner may be an alter ego of Iggwilv, the witch Baba Yaga.
CODEX OF THE INFINITE PLANES: In the past, a wizard-priest [Yagrax?] of the Isles of Woe found this artifact and used it to dominate the lands around the Nyr Dyv. It is rumored these massive powers also caused the Isles of Woe to sink. The Codex survived this disaster, and was later used by the archmage Tzunk in his effort to conquer the City of Brass on the Elemental Plane of Fire.
CROWN, ORB AND SCEPTRE OF MIGHT: Each of the three main moral alignments had
its own champions -- Good, Neutrality and Evil. It is said that the great deities of the past created these items of regalia for their viceroys or chosen representatives on Oerth, so that there was an Emperor of Good, of Neutrality, and of Evil. These artifacts date from the late period of the "Age of the Gods", when the gods were beginning to battle each other through mortal representatives.
CRYSTAL OF THE EBON FLAME: This artifact may or may not be related to the Plane of Shadow, or the Realm of the Shadowking. No one knows for sure.
CUP AND TALISMAN OF AL'AKBAR: In the years following the Invoked Devastation,
the gods of the Paynims gave their lawful good high priest these precious artifacts. However, they were lost to demihuman raiders, and were last reported to be somewhere in the southeastern Bandit Kingdoms (Stoink? Dimre? Johrase? Artonsamay? Reyhu?).
EYE AND HAND OF VECNA: Not much is known of this greatest of evil liches, but
it is thought that he ruled a land somewhere on the Flanaess during or before the time of the Great Migrations. In any case, it is thought he was brought low due to the treachery of his trusted lieutenant, Kas, and an enchanted sword which he'd given the warrior. These two evil relics still exist, however, and from time to time pop up to cause havoc once again.
HEWARD'S MYSTICAL ORGAN: This huge pipe-organ is named after the quasi-deity,
Heward, and is mentioned in the Fables of Burdock. It is a great, cumbersome device, probably existing in some extradimensional space somewhere -- possibly accessed by the dungeons of Castle Greyhawk.
HORN OF CHANGE:
INVULNERABLE COAT OF ARND OF TDON: This chain shirt was worn by the legendary
priest Arnd, an Old Oeridian of some forgotten town in the far west. It probably dates from a time prior to the beginning of the Oeridian Record.
Re: The final combat of Vecna and Kas
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 12:26PM PDT
From: Chris Anderson Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail Blocker
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The final combat of Vecna and Kas (my version)
Ok, we've seen the stories. Now, I'm curious -- what powers has everyone given to Kas's sword? I don't have my listing at work, and I don't remember all of the details, but the gist was:
Highly intelligent CE +6 shortsword of Wounding.
Minor powers: regenerate 3hp/rnd, speed (attack 1st, add an additional attack/round), immunity to fire/acid, haste at will
Major Powers: Bestow magic resistance of 75%, Paralyze on touch, raise str/dex/con to 25 for 1 turn 1/day.
Major Effects: alignment changes to that of sword, cause fear in all who see the wielder, holy water burns character, user ages 3-30 years whenever the "raise str/dex/con" power is used.
Anyone else?
--
Chris Anderson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathanael. D. Wentz [mailto:nwentz@mail.saintmail.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:17 AM
> To: GREYTALK@mitvma.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The final combat of Vecna and Kas (my version)
>
>
> Here's my version of the way it happened, in two parts. The first is in
> story form, the second in game terms.
>
> Vecna spun around as the door to his laboratory flew open.
> His gaze met Kas's for a split second, and then the battle was joined. Kas
> hurtled toward Vecna, his arm swinging the grey edge of the Sword forward as
> he closed on his master. Vecna, however, was not idle. Arcane energies
> spat and crackled in a nimbus of green fire about him as he loosed the fastest
> spell he knew.
> It wasn't fast enough. As the bolt of death sprang from Vecna's fingers, Kas
> plunged the Sword into his chest, the length of the blade shimmering with
> the black essence of the Sword's power. Kas, flaming, flew backwards across
> the room as fast as he had crossed it less than a second before. Even as he
> hit the wall behind him, Vecna was working a longer, but more deadly magic.
> Kas raised himself to his feet as Vecna uttered the last syllable of his
> final spell. Kas threw his arm out before him, his blackened fingers still
> clutching his weapon as the blast of magical energy reached him. The Sword
> blossomed with white flames, trying desperately to block the spell's effect.
> Vecna, seeing this, began to cast a spell of protection. Once again, he was
> too late. The sword was not wholly successful, however, as Vecna's power was
> too great for it to counter. The greater part of the spell's effects were
> turned, and even as Kas was blasted into his component atoms by the remnants
> of the spell, the magic rebounded from his blazing weapon, bathing the room
> in pale radiance. Vecna, too, was consumed in the ensuing explosion, a noiseless burst of light that flattened the castle and darkened the sky with
> upthrown debris. His hand and his eye slipped away in the streams of magic,
> and no evidence of the sword's passing was ever found.
>
> Ok, Kas first kicked in Vecna's door. Then he and Vecna rolled for initiative, which resulted in a tie of 1. Kas, wielding a magical sword of
> unrivaled power, had a weapon speed factor of 1, the time required for the
> casting of Vecna's spell, a lethal blaze of energy of his own devising, the
> mysteries of which were lost when he met his doom. Kas made his attack roll
> and scored a critical hit, as one of the powers of the Sword (IMC) is that
> all successful attacks are critical hits. Kas knew he had to kill Vecna
> before the lich could send his magics against him, and so had no time to use
> the spell turning power before. (Another one of the Sword's abilities, as I
> see it.) Kas's strike wounded Vecna grievously, as his blow was augmented by
> magics in the Sword. (Another power of the Sword is that upon the utterance
> of the command word, the next creature hit is instantly slain, no saving
> throw. Obviously, some things are too powerful for the sword to destroy so
> easily. This power is usable 1/month.) Vecna's first spell brought Kas down
> to less than a third of his hit points, and the final spell destroyed him
> completely, leaving nothing but a few teeth, fused together.
> The Sword, however, deflected much of the energy of the spell, which, no
> longer focused into a beam, blew the entire tower to kingdom come. The
> entire combat took less than 15 seconds, but saw the passing of two of the
> darkest villains ever to walk on the face of the oerth.
>
> As for the speed at which Vecna and Kas are operating, I'm assuming that
> both were magically augmented in that department. Kas, however, uses no
> spells or powers, relying the Sword to counter that end of things, while he
> was concentrating on the actual "stabbing to death" bit. Even so, they were
> not enough to survive a battle with Vecna, the most powerful spellcaster in
> recorded history.
>
> -- Nathanael D. Wentz, who admits a liking of flashy and noisy magical battles.
From: Chris Anderson
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The final combat of Vecna and Kas (my version)
Ok, we've seen the stories. Now, I'm curious -- what powers has everyone given to Kas's sword? I don't have my listing at work, and I don't remember all of the details, but the gist was:
Highly intelligent CE +6 shortsword of Wounding.
Minor powers: regenerate 3hp/rnd, speed (attack 1st, add an additional attack/round), immunity to fire/acid, haste at will
Major Powers: Bestow magic resistance of 75%, Paralyze on touch, raise str/dex/con to 25 for 1 turn 1/day.
Major Effects: alignment changes to that of sword, cause fear in all who see the wielder, holy water burns character, user ages 3-30 years whenever the "raise str/dex/con" power is used.
Anyone else?
--
Chris Anderson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathanael. D. Wentz [mailto:nwentz@mail.saintmail.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 11:17 AM
> To: GREYTALK@mitvma.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The final combat of Vecna and Kas (my version)
>
>
> Here's my version of the way it happened, in two parts. The first is in
> story form, the second in game terms.
>
> Vecna spun around as the door to his laboratory flew open.
> His gaze met Kas's for a split second, and then the battle was joined. Kas
> hurtled toward Vecna, his arm swinging the grey edge of the Sword forward as
> he closed on his master. Vecna, however, was not idle. Arcane energies
> spat and crackled in a nimbus of green fire about him as he loosed the fastest
> spell he knew.
> It wasn't fast enough. As the bolt of death sprang from Vecna's fingers, Kas
> plunged the Sword into his chest, the length of the blade shimmering with
> the black essence of the Sword's power. Kas, flaming, flew backwards across
> the room as fast as he had crossed it less than a second before. Even as he
> hit the wall behind him, Vecna was working a longer, but more deadly magic.
> Kas raised himself to his feet as Vecna uttered the last syllable of his
> final spell. Kas threw his arm out before him, his blackened fingers still
> clutching his weapon as the blast of magical energy reached him. The Sword
> blossomed with white flames, trying desperately to block the spell's effect.
> Vecna, seeing this, began to cast a spell of protection. Once again, he was
> too late. The sword was not wholly successful, however, as Vecna's power was
> too great for it to counter. The greater part of the spell's effects were
> turned, and even as Kas was blasted into his component atoms by the remnants
> of the spell, the magic rebounded from his blazing weapon, bathing the room
> in pale radiance. Vecna, too, was consumed in the ensuing explosion, a noiseless burst of light that flattened the castle and darkened the sky with
> upthrown debris. His hand and his eye slipped away in the streams of magic,
> and no evidence of the sword's passing was ever found.
>
> Ok, Kas first kicked in Vecna's door. Then he and Vecna rolled for initiative, which resulted in a tie of 1. Kas, wielding a magical sword of
> unrivaled power, had a weapon speed factor of 1, the time required for the
> casting of Vecna's spell, a lethal blaze of energy of his own devising, the
> mysteries of which were lost when he met his doom. Kas made his attack roll
> and scored a critical hit, as one of the powers of the Sword (IMC) is that
> all successful attacks are critical hits. Kas knew he had to kill Vecna
> before the lich could send his magics against him, and so had no time to use
> the spell turning power before. (Another one of the Sword's abilities, as I
> see it.) Kas's strike wounded Vecna grievously, as his blow was augmented by
> magics in the Sword. (Another power of the Sword is that upon the utterance
> of the command word, the next creature hit is instantly slain, no saving
> throw. Obviously, some things are too powerful for the sword to destroy so
> easily. This power is usable 1/month.) Vecna's first spell brought Kas down
> to less than a third of his hit points, and the final spell destroyed him
> completely, leaving nothing but a few teeth, fused together.
> The Sword, however, deflected much of the energy of the spell, which, no
> longer focused into a beam, blew the entire tower to kingdom come. The
> entire combat took less than 15 seconds, but saw the passing of two of the
> darkest villains ever to walk on the face of the oerth.
>
> As for the speed at which Vecna and Kas are operating, I'm assuming that
> both were magically augmented in that department. Kas, however, uses no
> spells or powers, relying the Sword to counter that end of things, while he
> was concentrating on the actual "stabbing to death" bit. Even so, they were
> not enough to survive a battle with Vecna, the most powerful spellcaster in
> recorded history.
>
> -- Nathanael D. Wentz, who admits a liking of flashy and noisy magical battles.
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