Showing posts with label politics. Show all posts
Showing posts with label politics. Show all posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2024
Wednesday, February 18, 2009
Re: Why there's no Furyluna
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:25:12 +0200
Reply-To: gratrul@sud005.ericsson.se
From: Truls Pdrsson gratrul@SUD005.ERICSSON.SE
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Why there’s no Furyluna
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
John Argenziano wrote:
--->>
This is a good question. I’m interested to see how others handled the situation. Here’s what’s happening in my (Pre-War) campaign:
The PCs are from the C of Ulek, and don’t know too much about Furyondish high politics. They free Thrommel from TOEE, and travel with him to Verbobonc. There they learn that two years ago, King Belvor (a widower) married Lady Jolene himself in order to preserve the Furyondy-Velunic political alliance. [This type of behavior was not uncommon in real-world medieval courts.]
[Snip]
This has left the PCs in the middle of a potential civil war between two largely-LG and well-meaning factions. [Note to DMs: You should see them squirm.]
And all the while, Iuz sits laughing on his seat of bone.
Thoughts?
----<<<
I like this a lot. A good way to show how good can end up fighting good. My mind directly turns to the possible reactions by other nations. Like the Shield Lands and Highfolk.
Now the Shield Lands would probably try to remain neutral but active somehow trying to negotiate, they don’t want a shattered Furyondy as their own position is rather perilous. But a strong Furyondy wich is in debt to them would be ideal.
As for Highfolk it becomes a tough choice. They need a strong Furyondy to protect them against Iuz, but should they really get involved. What about the elven knights of the Hart will they side with there human brothers or sit it out. Should they aim for a position as mediators?
What of Dyvers, would they be pressed to choose side and economically support one side. If they choose wisely they would secure their independence for the future, if not they could risk an attack by the winner. Though it would be best to avoid taking sides, that might not be an option due to inner pressure, (Belvor is the rightful king or Thrommel has promised us increased trade). Or maybe one of the southern nobles are pressing them trying to get at their lucrative trade position in one way or another.
And what about Verbobonc, and the general populace of Veluna and Furyondy could they be made to take sides. Both Thrommel and Belvor would think twice before attacking their own peasants.
Iuz is not to be forgotten he would not only laugh but he would actively sow dissent among the factions, and spread lies something he is very good at.
And all this because a bunch of PCs happened to find and free a prisoner in a temple. Hmmm maybe lawful PCs should get a xp penalty for causing this chaos :-)
Comments?
-Truls
Oh by the way:
Ronald Melvin Gaw wrote:
>Is anyone interested in seeing material related to the original ‘Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh’ series?
---snip---
>Most importantly, does anyone care if I do this?
Yes we do care! And I personally would love to see this. My players finished U1 but blew it in U2. Being captured by the Lizard Men before even getting into the caves.
One day they will learn not to camp close to the monster lair. I would say once in blue moon, but in greyhawk that is quite often.
--
Truls Parsson Ericsson Radio Systems
Tel. +46 8 7573909 Sundbyberg
Fax +4684043990 ERA/LZ/LI
Reply-To: gratrul@sud005.ericsson.se
From: Truls Pdrsson gratrul@SUD005.ERICSSON.SE
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Why there’s no Furyluna
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
John Argenziano wrote:
--->>
This is a good question. I’m interested to see how others handled the situation. Here’s what’s happening in my (Pre-War) campaign:
The PCs are from the C of Ulek, and don’t know too much about Furyondish high politics. They free Thrommel from TOEE, and travel with him to Verbobonc. There they learn that two years ago, King Belvor (a widower) married Lady Jolene himself in order to preserve the Furyondy-Velunic political alliance. [This type of behavior was not uncommon in real-world medieval courts.]
[Snip]
This has left the PCs in the middle of a potential civil war between two largely-LG and well-meaning factions. [Note to DMs: You should see them squirm.]
And all the while, Iuz sits laughing on his seat of bone.
Thoughts?
----<<<
I like this a lot. A good way to show how good can end up fighting good. My mind directly turns to the possible reactions by other nations. Like the Shield Lands and Highfolk.
Now the Shield Lands would probably try to remain neutral but active somehow trying to negotiate, they don’t want a shattered Furyondy as their own position is rather perilous. But a strong Furyondy wich is in debt to them would be ideal.
As for Highfolk it becomes a tough choice. They need a strong Furyondy to protect them against Iuz, but should they really get involved. What about the elven knights of the Hart will they side with there human brothers or sit it out. Should they aim for a position as mediators?
What of Dyvers, would they be pressed to choose side and economically support one side. If they choose wisely they would secure their independence for the future, if not they could risk an attack by the winner. Though it would be best to avoid taking sides, that might not be an option due to inner pressure, (Belvor is the rightful king or Thrommel has promised us increased trade). Or maybe one of the southern nobles are pressing them trying to get at their lucrative trade position in one way or another.
And what about Verbobonc, and the general populace of Veluna and Furyondy could they be made to take sides. Both Thrommel and Belvor would think twice before attacking their own peasants.
Iuz is not to be forgotten he would not only laugh but he would actively sow dissent among the factions, and spread lies something he is very good at.
And all this because a bunch of PCs happened to find and free a prisoner in a temple. Hmmm maybe lawful PCs should get a xp penalty for causing this chaos :-)
Comments?
-Truls
Oh by the way:
Ronald Melvin Gaw wrote:
>Is anyone interested in seeing material related to the original ‘Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh’ series?
---snip---
>Most importantly, does anyone care if I do this?
Yes we do care! And I personally would love to see this. My players finished U1 but blew it in U2. Being captured by the Lizard Men before even getting into the caves.
One day they will learn not to camp close to the monster lair. I would say once in blue moon, but in greyhawk that is quite often.
--
Truls Parsson Ericsson Radio Systems
Tel. +46 8 7573909 Sundbyberg
Fax +4684043990 ERA/LZ/LI
Thursday, November 6, 2008
Re: Greyhawk Corruption
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Greyhawk Corruption (Was:What to do with evil?)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:42:37 -0500
From: Robert Underwood
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Dracos said:
>Really? Assassins and Thieves in charge of the greatest city in the
>Flanaess is what gives Greyhawk its flavor?
Actually I think that you will find that it is Thieves and Merchants that run Greyhawk.
>I find if oppressive and unjust. It offends my personal sense of Ma'at
>and changes Greyhawk from a "Free City" to an "Apparently Free City".
Hmmm... I think if you compare that you will find that Greyhawk is a free city. Look around the Flanaes. There is Rauxes. Chendel is very ordered, and buildings are allowed little varriation from what city planers want to see. Also, do not go to the Pale looking for freedom.
But I suspect that the appaletion "Free City" refers to the fact that Greyhawk is part of no country other than itself. That is how the term is used historically.
>If people get sent to the labor camps for minor offenses just because
>Greyhawk is low on labor, and if fines are increased to finance
>operations (or so I've read COG box set, GHTaB. etc.), while at the same
>time the thieves guild sucks up more and more revenue from the city, it
>seems certain to me that Greyhawk is headed for disaster.
Being sentenced to labor is nothing unusal, even today. Think chain gang. I find that the fines are much more just than the system that we have today. A beggar might pay only a silver or two in fines, while a rich man convicted of the same crime would pay hundreds, ifnot thousands, of gold. Fines are not increased to pay city expenses, only the peoples constables were created for revune purposes. Yet they serve to let the Watch concentrate upon serious crime.
>For Pete's sake! The Mayor's gambling house is the most crooked in town.
>(IMC the PCs found out and blackmailed the mayor. Now *that* was funny.)
IIRC the Wheel of Gold is a legitimate gambling establishment. Anyhow a casino will always make money. The odds are always stacked in favor of the house.
>I'm sure that the victims of the above mentioned extortion will rest
>easier knowing that their misery is only a small part of Greyhawk's
>revenue.
The extorted do rest easier knowing that they will not be pillaged at night. Even if non-guild thieves rob the place they can complain to the guild. The guild will not repay the losses, but they do try to find the thieves who made them look bad.
>Instead robbery will be committed in a government regulated way. I'm not
>impressed by these fringe benefits.
>I don't think the population would be either, if they knew about it.
Government robbery = taxes. The population does know about thieves running the city. Org Nenshen and Bakluni are known members of the thieves guild. Gasgal gained some repute as a thief befoe becoming a politician. Arentol, the former guilmaster, was also well connected in the government.
>How would this make the city prosperous?
>If the money disappears once it gets to the city, who, aside from the
>thieves, benefits?
Actually the thieves only take part of the imense amount of wealth passing through the area. Taxes are kept low to keep the caravans rolling through. Every buisnessman expects to take a hit now and again. Wealth draws thieves, con-artists, and huxters.
Two parting shots. First, if you do not like the city, then do not use it. Also "To Protect and Serve - the moto of every extortion ring" R. Asprin.
Crunch
That's only my oppinion, I could be wrong.
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 01:42:37 -0500
From: Robert Underwood
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Dracos said:
>Really? Assassins and Thieves in charge of the greatest city in the
>Flanaess is what gives Greyhawk its flavor?
Actually I think that you will find that it is Thieves and Merchants that run Greyhawk.
>I find if oppressive and unjust. It offends my personal sense of Ma'at
>and changes Greyhawk from a "Free City" to an "Apparently Free City".
Hmmm... I think if you compare that you will find that Greyhawk is a free city. Look around the Flanaes. There is Rauxes. Chendel is very ordered, and buildings are allowed little varriation from what city planers want to see. Also, do not go to the Pale looking for freedom.
But I suspect that the appaletion "Free City" refers to the fact that Greyhawk is part of no country other than itself. That is how the term is used historically.
>If people get sent to the labor camps for minor offenses just because
>Greyhawk is low on labor, and if fines are increased to finance
>operations (or so I've read COG box set, GHTaB. etc.), while at the same
>time the thieves guild sucks up more and more revenue from the city, it
>seems certain to me that Greyhawk is headed for disaster.
Being sentenced to labor is nothing unusal, even today. Think chain gang. I find that the fines are much more just than the system that we have today. A beggar might pay only a silver or two in fines, while a rich man convicted of the same crime would pay hundreds, ifnot thousands, of gold. Fines are not increased to pay city expenses, only the peoples constables were created for revune purposes. Yet they serve to let the Watch concentrate upon serious crime.
>For Pete's sake! The Mayor's gambling house is the most crooked in town.
>(IMC the PCs found out and blackmailed the mayor. Now *that* was funny.)
IIRC the Wheel of Gold is a legitimate gambling establishment. Anyhow a casino will always make money. The odds are always stacked in favor of the house.
>I'm sure that the victims of the above mentioned extortion will rest
>easier knowing that their misery is only a small part of Greyhawk's
>revenue.
The extorted do rest easier knowing that they will not be pillaged at night. Even if non-guild thieves rob the place they can complain to the guild. The guild will not repay the losses, but they do try to find the thieves who made them look bad.
>Instead robbery will be committed in a government regulated way. I'm not
>impressed by these fringe benefits.
>I don't think the population would be either, if they knew about it.
Government robbery = taxes. The population does know about thieves running the city. Org Nenshen and Bakluni are known members of the thieves guild. Gasgal gained some repute as a thief befoe becoming a politician. Arentol, the former guilmaster, was also well connected in the government.
>How would this make the city prosperous?
>If the money disappears once it gets to the city, who, aside from the
>thieves, benefits?
Actually the thieves only take part of the imense amount of wealth passing through the area. Taxes are kept low to keep the caravans rolling through. Every buisnessman expects to take a hit now and again. Wealth draws thieves, con-artists, and huxters.
Two parting shots. First, if you do not like the city, then do not use it. Also "To Protect and Serve - the moto of every extortion ring" R. Asprin.
Crunch
That's only my oppinion, I could be wrong.
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