Elected Nobles

Date: Sat, 13 Nov 99 12:37PM PST
From: AOL Ojerasmus Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Elected Nobles

<< Consider the 'Holy Roman Empire', will you?

What about the Holy Roman Empire?
>>>

It was basically a 'hereditary' elected monarchy. A varying number of nobles and clergymen were electors who got to chose the next emperor (Between 5 and 8 I believe). Some of those electors were hereditary positions and some were granted by either the emperor or pope. Which of course gave the sitting ruler a huge influence on his successor especially as it was sometimes possible to do the electing while he was still alive (called I believe the King of the Romans and usually a son or cadet member of the ruling house).

While it was nominally an elected position it eventually settled into a defacto hereditary Habsburg monarchy due to the emperors ability to create and fill titles and the dependence of the electors on Imperial military and fiscal aid.

In the early middle ages there would often be outsiders put forward by one power group or other as candidates but over time I believe uncontested elections became common. The threat of putting up a candidate was often enough to win concessions for the electors in the later years of an emperors rule and the election during the lifetime of the previous encumbent meant that promises were usually stuck to.

While we are on the subject all nobles of the empire above Knight rank were known as princes of the empire similar to the Aerdian model used in Ivid. Their feifdom would have a seperate designation (dukedom, county whatever) but all the nobles would also be able to call himself a prince of the empire (which also gained some voting rights on seperate issues but not election).

It probably came from the fact that the Empire was nominally at least a confederation of petty states with the Emperor starting off as a position intended to work for their security against external threats rather than as a day to day ruler. All of the states ruling families felt that they were monarchs within their own states and viewed the Emperor as their elected servant rather than a true feudal overlord. Again as in all such matters there were huge differences between what happened in practice especially when the Habsburgs made the position almost hereditary and what the princes clung to as the traditions and laws of the realm. As the name suggests they considered themselves the succesors to the Romans and classical ideas such the senate or even democracy were highly thought of even if their practice was a far cry from what we consider democracy.

Elected monarchies were actually reasonably common in central Europe, Poland was an elected monarchy for a while and I think Hungary also had periods of elected rule. The Pope was of course elected and was an important secular ruler. With limited centralisation election was often the only way to come to a decision no one person had enough power to dictate, when power became more centralised in the late middle ages/early modern period the elections for royalty and for the day to day running of countries tended to give way.

When a monarch often depended on taxes or armed levies from his nobility they often wanted concessions and some form of vote was a nice way of showing what was what in the confused politics of Germany. Election of some form was also an option in times of a disputed succession but again it was a far cry from democracy.

I agree that modern democracy features too heavily in RPGs and should be eliminated but the idea of all powerful royal houses also features too heavily for my liking. The idea of divine right of kings and of central authority came to the fore nearer the early modern period than the period that Greyhawk seems to evoke. Kings needed the support of their nobilities and a good way of winning it was to let them in on the decison making process either in the form of councils or parliaments or often in continental europe by promising them a say over the succession. It still resulted in the same families ruling countries but they had to pay for votes to ensure it.

As for the Duchy, presumably it kept the name it had under Keoland, going back to the HRE there were plenty of Counties whose rulers felt they were supreme within their own boundaries and felt no need to inflate their titles.

All of the above was from memory, apologies if any errors slipped in.

Owen Erasmus

Re: Population

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:07:29 +0200
From: sander
Subject: Re: Population

On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, Marc Tizoc Gonzalez wrote:

> There is just too much to say about this thread. Thank you Gary!
>
> First, the statement was made:
> >>> > All those warhorses have to come from somewhere, and it's sure not Ket.
> Thus: herds of horses.
> <<<
>
> Actually, I suggest that civilized Bakluna be an ongoing source of excellent horseflesh from the mid 350s CY on.
>
> Sander says that a Gran March soldier's seven-year duty does not give that soldier the horse, but I suggest to Nick and company that if they want a

Well, I am not. I haven't had time to think much about the Gran March, but I am pretty sure that just as armor and arms, the horse belongs to the army, notthe soldiers 8-)

> popularly horse rich region, then after seven years surviving soldiers _do_ come to own their horse. (Of course with ownership comes taxation!
> Nerull, eat your heart out. :P )
>

Surviving should not be that hard.

> Sander also said:
> >> > Better take a look at the numbers of horses involved and the people/one horse ratio.
> [snip]
> But there was close to *NO* fighting in the Sheldomar.
> <<
>
> I've looked through both the FtA card and the '83 Guide. Will you tell us what ratio you mean? Also, that lack of fighting in the Sheldomar may have only been successful Keoghish propaganda.
>

The standing heavy and medium cavalry alone is 1000, giving us a ratio of 1/187, elven light cavalry adds 500, getting the ratio to 1/124. Now looking at the numbers of the 'Great host' there are bound to be no less than at least 500 cavalry in prvate hands, hence 2000 cavalry horses all told in service, or 1 horse per about 98 people.

And that is just the cavalry horses in service.

> I, for one, was not convinced by the protestations of inaction that Keoland's throne made. :P
>
> As for Sander's claim that the average person's per square mile is only four, I'm too lazy to check it, and anyways I need to know whether he refers to the Duchy of Ulek or the entire Sheldomar Valley. (But give the man kudos for such meticulous work regardless of which area he counted.)
>

By my claculations, the area of teh DoU is 30k+ sq. miles without the woods, and the population outside towns, discounting wood elves who live in the woods is ~ 134k, giving just slightly more than 4 persons, whetever human, elf or gnome, per a sq.km outside the towns.

> Regarding Sander's demand for an example of despotic governance over an armed populace, I'll do no more than type the letters, NAZI.
>

Doesn't match. For a lot of reasons.

> As for Sparta on its own terms, I'd like to remind everyone that Erik Satie composed three Gymnopedies, which are based upon a Spartan boys' dance.
> Those pieces of music are some of the most important (beautiful) that humanity has made.
>
> Drunk and dying with what Rasgon names nostalgia,
>
> Marc Tizoc
>
> PS - I struggle against sexism, but as long as we know that we are playing with such matters, I'm fine with limiting the Gran March draft to young men. With Ket so close and the reported sexism of civilized Bakluna (I'm remembering Wasim Qharallah's hire-toast), it seems arguable that the Gran
> March might want to protect the purity of its SOf mothers. It certainly

8-) purity of SOf mothers 8-) I would guess they are, mostly as well-mixed racially as Keolanders, if not more. Rather, who would tend to all the non-military matters if *everybody* went away for 7 years?

No offence meant to anybody.

> makes for contrast with the land of the rampant unicorn, which represents the Uleks, that haunts my dreams.
>

'Rampant Unicorn'???

Re: Sander's comments on the Duchy of Ulek

Date: Fri, 12 Nov 99 03:13AM PST
From: sander Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Sander's comments on the Duchy of Ulek

> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:53:56 PST
> From: Immaculate Image
> Subject: Sander's comments on the Duchy of Ulek

> S: And the rest of the writeup continues to totally ignore both foodstuffs and cloth, even though these are listed as resources and should thus be important.
>
> II: Good point. I should address the role of those resources in the Culture section. Anybody want in on that?

ME! ME! ME!

I have a lot of info (mostly hardcopy paper form) on Uleks & foodstuffs. I'll start posting it.

> S:Is there an offical view of Grenowen or even a write-up?
>
> II: None that I know of. That was written by Steve, and our Triad will have to develop him. Perhaps I have painted him as an idyllic ruler, as that's my impression of him, but I'm sure we'll come up with some
> character quirks to make him unique.
>
> "The opening of neighboring Celene proved prosperous...."
>
> S: Now that the GHW are over and Celene is not so open, what about the trade? As such a trade would also bring additional wealth into not only the Duchy of Ulek but also Celene, the merchants and anybody
> connected to them are going to be grumbling if it has stopped entirely, and would probably create a fair bit of smuggling. If it continues but is limited by say requiring a special royal permit or somesuch, it would create some smuggling and quite a bit of intrigue.
>
> Which are IMHO excellent story leads.
>
> II: Good point. I think the relations between the Duchy and Celene are still very good, though straining. Trade between the two is limited I think, and although smuggling might exist, anybody doing such things in Yolande's turf is taking their life into their hands. This also depends
> on how easy and navigable the Lortmils are. I know it's not the Crystalmists and humanoids are few relative to the Pomarj, but it's not a trip to the store. Taras' point about Celene Pass also complicates
> this trade issue.

Oh, definately. I never implied it would be easy. The smugglers could easily have their own routes (some smuggling may have been going on for centuries, even when Celene was closed), the smugglers can make use of magic and use subterran passages, etc.

[snip]

> "..dwarven clan leaders are said to be as rich as princes, and are approached by emissaries from Furyondy and even Nyrond for aid.
> Dwarves are not, however, susceptible to such overtures."
>
> S: Hmm... Not listed above in resources.
>
> II: that's because the dwarves have the gold, not the Duchy :)

The unallied dwarves should be discussed separately. Under a big entry of Lortmils or somesuch. Similar forany others that live in there or nearby (gnomes of Kron Hills, inhabitants of the Lorridges, etc.)

There is bound to be quite a lot of 'vagabonds'.

> "Two ancient woodlands..."
>
> S: Somebody should work on those.
>
> II: In what regard? Like developing similar to the level of detail of the Gnarley Forest present in the Campaign Guide in FtA? More importantly, ARE YOU VOLUNTEERING?

I rather meant the fairy creatures than the whole forests.

> S: [snip - roads, got to check it out on a map]
>
> II: Don't bother because they're not there. Maybe some day they'll be canon. Until then, you'll just have to look at the Darlene Map and envision them.

That's what I meant.

[snip]

>"Although the Duchy is a relatively safe land, there are the odd encounters with dangerous life-forms...."
>
> S:Way too many humanoids imho, especially considering the population toll of none. Sounds a lot more like 'small numbers of just about any small humanoid race can be occasionally be found'.
>
> II: Those little races are like roaches. They just look for some nook and cranny. When it says no humanoids I think of the bigger and more organized races considering the context of the reference. Things like orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, trolls, ogres and giants.

Hmm... could well be. But such enclaves would have to be quite a bit more oriented towards hunting, gathering and agriculture than usually. Possibly also tending a bit more towards neutral.

> S: Brown bears are omnivores. Cougars would probably live in the lortmils (but seeing as bears and lions live in mountainous areas as well - consider their former populations in italy, greece and spain) I'm not sure if there would be a niche for cougars. And I would definately leave
> coyottes out.
>
> II: You don't see a role for Coyotes? I was hesitant in thinking whether the wildlife of the Duchy would be more like Africa. I mean Lions must be somewhere in the Sheldomar, given Keoland's (and Sterich's)coat of arms.

Consider the coat of arms of various european countries. Take for example the British lion and unicorn 8-)

Coyottes afaik also don't live in so warm climates (do they live in Florida?) and afaik usually not where there are wolves.

I would still propose medierannean rather than africa for most of the duchy.

> S: This all leaves out the various neutral and good dragons. Considering the whole galore of those that exist...
>
> II: Give me an example of any which might live in the Duchy. I took those (Metallic and Gem)into consideration, and with the exception of Golds perhaps, the terrain just isn't suitable.

Let's see - Amethyst and Mist are almost certain, there may be could dragons up there in the Lortmils (esp. as there already are the Avariel), the mercury dragons are also a possibility.

We know that there is a lot of rain (mostly) and possibly also snowfall in these parts of the Lortmils. We know because there are the Lort and Kewl Rivers. There would also be lots of small streams that eventually merge with these (or don't). In the highlands (and maybe also the Lortmils) there are bound to be many small lakes at the bottom of valleys from which barely all water that gets into it in the rainier seasons manages to escape. Consider that canyons are mentioned in the Lortmils and these come to be due to running water. There could easily also be plenty of waterfalls.

[snip]

> Crocodiles, weather and Florida.

The rivers and tributaries coming from the mountains would be somewhat cooler, also cold air would come from the mountains. And AFAIK there are alligators not crocodiles in Florida. The Duchy is not near the sea, so warm sea-air doesn't come into it.

[snip]

> S: Well, this is a clear case of size-chauvinism.
>
> II: Is that sarcasm? :)

Partially. Invariantly, teh big races find the little ones to be a nuissance, if not worse.

> S: Here is a contradiction. Shouldn't the elven be droped from in front of the nobility? Otherwise Waybury and the gnomes and halflings and humans would have no political influence.

> II: Ahh, but they really don't. Using Steve's writeup, one must be an elf or half elf to be a noble. This does not conflict with saying that Grenowen isn't wise enough to realize that there are valuable people of
> other races. It's a balancing act. Cater to the nobles' self-importance, but keep the "little people" happy. Waybury is a seat of human power because the elves don't have the same grip on it IMO, as they do in
> Tringlee.
>
> S: As here is just nobility, not specificly elven nobility the previous paragraphs should be corrected.
>
> II: In the context of the Duchy, nobility and elven nobility are interchangeable.

I din't notice it being explicitly decleared that being noble meant being elven. So I would really like to contest that part:
a) the gnomes would have their own nobles.
b) the human settlers would have their own nobles. The human tribes that settled there are very unlikely to have done so if they were forced to submit to the power of the elves upon doing so. The leaders would just have gone elsewhere.

There may not be all that many of them compared to the elven ones, but they would exist.

Yet again - if the representatives of the towns and non-elven nobles are not called they have no political influence - or very little of it.

> S: How is the succession of the Duke handled?
>
> II: oohhh..it's a great mystery, since it's never happened!

But it is bound to be agreed on.

> S:The Duchy has quite a lot of gnomes in it's lands. Why not expand and (peacefully) get the dwarves to join in? Indeed, how much are the dwarves concerned who considers the surface area their own?
>
> II: You think you can get those rich and greedy dwarves to submit to an elven Duke? Not likely. Since the surface area is mostly mountainous, it's not likely anybody's gonna build a city on the surface of the
> Lortmils any time soon. It's a matter of respecting each others boundaries, and mutual hate for the bozos to the SE.

It's not clear how much anybody in the Duchy is really submitting to the Duke. The dwarves would rather be invited to take part in the gatherings of the nobles 8-)

> S:Also a good reason to prod the Lortmils dwarves to join the Duchy.
> Especially as the Duchy is providing help to other dwarves and is clearly friendly to various races.
>
> II: The political structure of the Dwarves is a different matter. I'm still trying to get a hold of Sobhrach to use his Lortmils article, which I'd like to do some modifications to. The dwarves of the Lortmils
> most likely feel closest to Prince Corond of Ulek anyway.

But the Prince is relatively far away. Also, the Prince is bound to be a lot more greedy (see above for dwarves and greed) and have a lot more clearer view of what could be found in the coffers of the Dwarves.

[snip]

> S: So the immigrants are mostly settling in and around Waybury? And there are significant amounts of them? Why isn't immigration documented anywhere?
>
> II: Well the elven nobility would be damned if all those vagabonds settle in Tringlee. There are no where near the amounts that have
There is the possibility of having them petition the lords on whose local land they want to settle as farmers, etc. A lot of the refugees would be more suited to country life that city life, wouldn't they? There would be lots of problems if they all settled in Waybury.

> immigrated to Keoland and the Gran March, but there's quite a few IMO.
> And documented where? A canon resource?

In whatever writeup is finally produced?

> S:Python???
>
> II: AHAH! I have flushed you out! Phyton's a suel power of natural beauty...something the Duchy has a lot of (unlike our garbage infested swamp dwellers to the east.. a growing joke between me and the SE1 Triad.)

You got me there. I was thinking of another god.

Sander

There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - these are all just illusions.

The Annotated Duchy of Ulek, Part 3

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 99 17:30PM PST
From: Gary Welsh Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail Blocker
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] The Annotated Duchy of Ulek, Part 3

MILITARY: The military of the Duchy is small but effective, and is noted for its many high elven fighter/mages. The most common activity performed by the army is patrolling the plains of the Duchy, and at most times some 25% of the total force is out on patrol. At any given time, the size of the army ranges from 1000 to 2000 strong. Perhaps half of this total is comprised of humans, another quarter high elves, and the other races of the Duchy make up the balance. About 30% of the total force are comprised of medium cavalry, and heavy and light cavalry make up an additional 15% each. The Duchy is renowned for its cavalry, and it serves the needs of the country quite well.

Another 30% of the total force comprises mixed infantry, who serve to defend cities and fixed positions, or hold ground allowing the cavalry to engage an enemy. Elven infantry tend to prefer the long sword and bow, while human troops tend to be crossbowmen and billmen. The halflings and gnomes troops use short swords and hand axes (although halfling troops also carry slings).

The final 10% are considered specialists, and include rangers and archers from the Axewood and Silverwood, as well as priests, mages, scouts and gnomish sappers. These forces do not include city guardsmen or personal guards of either the leadership or the nobility.

In addition to this, each elven noble house (of which there are quite a few) generally has a household force which may number from 30 to 100 men at arms.
These troops are armed by the whim or need of the elven lord or lady to whom they owe allegiance. In addition to this, it is possible for Duke to issue the call for the "Grand Host of Ulek". This includes all of the forces of the elven lords and an additional 25 to 50 civilian men or women from each noble's holding capable of bearing arms holding. This force may number up to 5,000 strong.

The Duchy is loath to spend money on mercenaries to train new troops, and instead recruits veterans from the military to spend one-year rotations in training camps as instructors. This saves the Duchy money as well as promoting trust and morale among the army. And rather than maintaining expensive (and unnecessary) fortresses throughout the Duchy, patrols normally billet with local city guards or form camps near smaller towns and villages. The primary training base of the Duchy's forces is known as The Crossroads. This fortified town is centrally located at the intersection of the Sheldomar Pike and the Duke's Road, and the wide open grasslands are excellent for training young horsemen and raising steeds to serve in the cavalry. The expansive plains of the eastern Sheldomar Valley also provide excellent opportunities to work on combined tactics and maneuvers, including battlefield magic. Most patrols originate from this base, and at any given time nearly half of the strength of the army is located here. When a particular formation or unit is preparing for a tour of the Pomarj border, they will frequently train in this area prior to deploying to the Principality of Ulek.

Since the Greyhawk Wars, there has been an additional military burden taken up by the Duchy: forwarding a force to assist in patrolling and maintaining the Principality of Ulek's border with the Pomarj. This force is typically about 200 members strong, and is comprised of the same percentage makeup as the rest of the army. This force typically rotates every six months and is self-supporting while in Corond's lands, though the Principality is responsible for any additional supplies or medical aid.

The elves of the Silverwood and the demihumans and woodsmen of the Axewood maintain their own patrols within the woodlands, but may request assistance from the army on rare occasions. Since the Greyhawk Wars more effort has been put forth in recruiting mages and priests to serve in the military, but this has met with limited success. Other than the elven fighter/mages, wizards have little interest in being subject to the whims of some knight on horseback. The predominant faiths within the borders of the Duchy don't exactly lend themselves to the war effort either, but this is changing, as a slow and steady influx of immigrants from the Gran March and the Lost Lands have brought their more militaristic clergy with them. Such faiths are slowly building a presence especially in and around Waybury.

RELIGION: In keeping with the Duchy's very cosmopolitan and multi-cultural setting, many deities are worshipped here. The Duchy is unique among lands of the Flanaess with respect to the collection of Powers venerated by humans. Few and far between are the worshippers of lawful or martial deities, as the Duchy has had a relatively trouble free existence since the end of the Short War. Nature deities such as Beory, Ehlonna, Phyton, and Velnius join the brothers Celestian and Fharlanghn among the powers venerated throughout the Duchy. Most of the deities favored by bards also suffer no shortage of worshippers in this fair land, as Lydia, Lirr, Myhriss, Olidammara, and even the elven demigod Ye'Cind have followers in the cities [23].

Of the elven gods, Corellon Larethian is the most favored by the High Elves, and Sehanine and Hanali Celanil are also widely worshipped. Among the Sylvan folk, Solonor Thelandira and the human Power Ehlonna [24] have many followers, and there are a few who venerate Erevan Ilesere and Rillifane Rallathil. The gnome's most favored deities are Garl Glittergold and Baervan Wildwanderer, although Baravar Cloakshadow and Segojan Earthcaller also enjoy some adherents. The halfling communities tend to worship all members of the Children of Yondalla equally.

The priests within the Duchy are all given respect due their social status as in other lands of the Flanaess, but unlike many other regions, the priests have little political power, and probably don't desire any. Political machinations and intrigues generally don't concern the clergy of the aforementioned powers.

CULTURE: The cosmopolitan culture of the Duchy of Ulek is a result of the mixture of the best of many races. The cities and towns reflect the fine elven architecture, and the more traditional "tree-cities" of the sylvan elves in the Silverwood are among the wonders of the region. Utility and beauty are balanced in most things produced in the Duchy, and the citizens are immensely proud of this. Each town, city, and stronghold is graced with fine parkland carefully tended by its inhabitants, and each of these parks or gardens has in its center one roanwood tree [25].

One branch of people who prosper here are the half-elven. Half-elves are perhaps more common here than in any other place in the Flanaess, because the Duchy of Ulek is one of the few places where the strengths of both humans and elves are appreciated [26]. The human and half-elven bards of Ulek are among the finest in all of the lands due to their close association with elven minstrels. Courts of other lands often seek these bards, and to have a bard who is from the Duchy is thought to be a great coup for rulers across the Flanaess [27].

The Duchy is also known for its fine gnome gem-cutters, whose works are considered to be extraordinarily beautiful. Both semi-precious and precious gems from the Lortmils adorn the work of jewelry crafters, and the work (especially when set against silver worked by the elves of Celene) is very sought after, even in cities as familiar with fine work as Greyhawk.

A note should be made about currency within the Duchy. The primary currency found within the Duchy is that of the Keoish variety, which is not surprising, given the political and geographic relationship between the Duchy and the Old Country. The only coins that are minted by the Duchy are large silver coins known as silveroans. Within the borders of the Duchy they are equivalent in value to a gold piece, as they are very beautiful and have a smattering of platinum in them. The front of the coin displays the shield of the Duchy, except that an effigy of the Duke holds the cluster of arrows high above his head. Around the perimeter of the coin it reads "His Noble Radiance, Grenowen". On the back of the coin is displayed an intricate roanwood tree and the inscription in elvish "One Tree, Many Branches". These coins are prized among collectors, as they are some of the most well minted coins in the Flanaess, not minted in great batches, and are often worth more as a piece of art than as a mere silver piece elsewhere. Another interesting coin to be found in various places within the Sheldomar Valley is the Jurnrese bronze piece, equivalent to a copper piece in value, and honored within the Duchy's borders. This coin, like the Jurnrese silver and gold piece, has a square hole in the center of the coin. The unicorn sigil of an old Suel noble house (also evident on the County's coat of arms) is repeated around the periphery of the coin five times, and the obverse bears the motto
"Peace in Strength" in ancient Suel [28].

_______________________________________

NOTES

[23] I am not sure why Ye'Cind was added to the list of deities (GH98). She does fit in with the musical theme of the Duchy of Ulek. I just don't know why the name was deified by the game designers.

[24] I think it is an error to refer to Ehlonna as a "human power." According to the Guide, p. 66, she is patroness of all good sylvan folk "elven, human, or otherwise" and she typically appears as either a human or elf.

[25] The author makes the Duchy of Ulek sound like a fantasy utopia… Is it too perfect? Too cloying? You can almost imagine the elves, half-elves, gnomes and halflings singing together, joining in an impromptu musical performance as they go about their daily tasks and welcome visitors. But this is always the problem with detailing good-aligned places. How do you make it interesting, without introducing discord and conflict of some sort? A fine example is Tolkien's Rivendell, which is a "good place" that is neither boring to read about nor disgusting in its goodness. Unfortunately, Tolkien's vision is so mimicked that it has become cliché in the fantasy field (what an understatement). But it is still closest to my view of places like the Duchy of Ulek and Highfolk. The single roanwood tree in the center of every town is a nice touch.

[26] Here is the important reference to the high numbers of half-elves and people with elven blood in the Duchy of Ulek. It might make for interesting reading to do an essay about the varied life spans of those with mixed-blood..
A wonderful, fresh treatment of half-elves, and fairy creatures in general, can be found in Jack Vance's Lyonesse trilogy. Such an unconventional vision might work wonders for this setting.

[27] I like the addition of the skill of Uleki minstrels (my new idea for a magic item: the Uleki ukulele). I would like to see more on song-based magic in the WORLD OF GREYHAWK. Who are the most powerful magic-wielding bards? The "Rhymers of the Blackfens" (from Dance of Demons, p. 26)? The idea of powerful music-related magic hearkens back to the Finnish and other Scandinavian mythological elements of fantasy. Notice the similarity in the names Mordenkainen and Vainamoinen, of Finnish myth.

[28] It is nice to see this Suel motto, considering the predominant human racial strain is Suel. According to the Guide, p. 14, the human strain is more Suel than anything else, then Flan, then Oeridian. And the humans are sublimated to the large demihuman population as well (human racial strain is given in parentheses).

The Annotated Duchy of Ulek, part 2

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 99 17:29PM PST
From: Gary Welsh Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail Blocker
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] The Annotated Duchy of Ulek, Part 2

ECOLOGY: The forests of the Duchy of Ulek are in geographical positions that give them the best mixture of tree species from both what are considered typically Central and Southern woods in the Flanaess [14]. The following list details the most important species to be found within the Duchy: apple, apricot, ash, bay, beech, briar, bronzewood, camphor, cedar, cherry, chestnut, chokecherry, crabapple, elder, elm, fig, galda, grapefruit, gum, hawthorne, hickory, hornwood, ipp, ipt, kara, larch, lemon, lime, locust, mangrove, maple, mulberry, myrtle, oak, olive, orange, peach, pear, phost, pine, plum, poplar, roanwood, thorn, tulip tree, usk, walnut, willow, yarpick, and yew. There are also the semi-intelligent and carnivorous plants to be found in remote areas of the forests. Choke creepers, hangmen trees, giant sundews and kampfults won't hesitate to end the life of an unwary or wounded adventurer.

Although the Duchy is a relatively safe land, there are the odd encounters with dangerous life-forms. Humanoids are virtually non-existent within the borders of this country, and large groups of humanoids haven't walked the plains of the Duchy since before the Hateful Wars. There do remain hidden pockets of some humanoid races, though none are larger than orcs or bugbears..

The smaller races, such as kobolds, jermalaine, xvarts, and goblins tend to fare better, though the most common humanoid plaguing the forests are the elusive kech. Igundi, skulks, kenku, adherers, and dopplegangers have also found a niche in various parts of the Duchy. Needlemen plague the Silverwood like few other places in the Flanaess, thriving on the predominance of elves..

Also among the tiny creatures of the land are gremlins, fremlins, galltrits, killmouli, and booka, though the latter two are much more tolerable than the members of the gremlin family. It is more common to encounter wild herd animals on the plains, and on occasions, their monstrous variants. Predatory animals, such as brown bears, wolves, lions, cougars, and coyotes can also be found in more isolated areas of the Duchy.

Among the true monsters, there is no shortage of isolated hazards. Anhkegs and ant lions are known to grab unwary travelers on the plains, and in the depths of the forest, owlbears can make short work of loggers, elves, and adventurers alike. In addition, encounters with stag, slicer, or the fearsome deathwatch beetle are not unheard of either. Finally, zygraats are a bizarre looking creature that can be found in both woodlands, as they prey on the faerie creatures within. The truly worrisome monsters are few and far between. On occasion, a solitary wyvern will terrorize the hillsmen and their herds. There are rumors that a red dragon or two may still lair within the Lortmils, but such creatures would have to be crafty and secretive indeed to avoid the attentions of their eternal enemies, the dwarves. It is highly doubtful that any dragons reside in either the Axewood or the Silverwood. If such a beast did, however, it would be unusually intelligent, powerful, and careful, to be able to avoid the attention of the elves and the good aligned creatures of those woods. Whether or not any Greyhawk dragons have taken up residence in Tringlee or Waybury is another unknown.

There are no large, stationary bodies of water within the borders of the Duchy, and the Sheldomar River and its tributaries are well traveled and safe. There is an abundance of fish species, and fisherman and adventurers alike should be aware of the dangers presented by some of the giant members of certain of these fish, notably catfish. In the slower moving shallows below Niole Dra, dragonfish are also a lethal hazard to unprotected feet wading in the water. Nereids and water nagas are not unheard of in some of the remote areas of the rivers, especially where the Sheldomar passes through the Axewood. Fortunately, there is not much to fear from more exotic and dangerous water-based predators, as there is little room and even less tolerance by the people who inhabit the shore communities for such creatures..

Perhaps the most common "monster" that rears its ugly head every so often is the giant snapping turtle, and crocodiles bask on the banks of the Kewl below Silverbend. There are exceptions to this, when some ocean going monster travels north up past Gradsul and into the Sheldomar.

Sylvan and faerie creatures thrive in this land. Brownies, buckawns, atomies, grigs, sprites, quicklings, pixies, mites, snyads, faux faeries, leprechauns, and stwingers all inhabit the forested areas of the eastern Sheldomar Valley, seeming to exist for the sole purpose of harassing the forest's larger two-legged inhabitants. Pseudodragons and faerie dragons also haunt the woods, and dryads, nymphs, and korred reside in remote glens [15]. There is also a significant population of centaurs and voadkyn, and no shortage of treants within the Silverwood [16]. A truly lucky soul might even catch a glimpse of the rare unicorn, which also is known to inhabit that rich woodland

POLITICS: When the Duchy became independent of Keoland, the high elves elected Grenowen to the office of Duke and established the capital in the old provincial seat of Tringlee [17]. Although members of the other races within the Duchy have always contributed their part to governing the land, there is no doubt that the high elves collectively, and the high elven nobility specifically, are the true political force. The Duchy of Ulek is therefore fairly representative of the high elven philosophy of government and the Duke will continue to hold power only as long as the majority of elven nobility supports him. If this support falters, any other elven noble could be elevated to the position of Duke or Duchess of Ulek (although it would take a lot for this to happen, and Grenowen has yet to face a serious threat to his office). And the nobles would then be responsible for naming a new candidate to head the nation [18].

The Duke and his cabinet are responsible for handling matters which affect the entire realm, such as international relations and trade, and the maintenance of a national military [19]. The local nobility of a given area, be they of whatever race, are responsible for all local governance. Waybury is of note in this regard, as over the years as it has increased in population it has increased its political influence, and is considered a seat of human influence within the Duchy [20].

Three times a year, the Convocation of Lords is held. During this time, matters of national concern are presented to the elven nobility, and they give suggestions to the Duke on how to handle matters. The Duke also announces any policies he has decided upon which affect the entire realm. There are also influential advisers of other races that Grenowen may call upon, and the Duke is quite good in tapping the experience and wisdom of others [21].

During the month of Lacysnows the third meeting of the year, the Convocation of Branches, is held. Here the nobility votes on whether or not they will continue to support the Duke by laying switches from the prized ipt trees on the ground in two piles-one for those who favor the Duke, and one for those opposed. Although it is entirely possible for any individual noble house to oppose the Duke actively, this has never carried to the point of warfare. The Duke may resign his post at any time he desires, at which point in time a special Convocation of Selection would be called.

The Duke is responsible for appointing a cabinet to oversee national matters..
This cabinet may be composed of any number of officers that the ruler deems necessary to deal with the issues facing the country. Cabinet members must be selected from the Elven nobility, and their upkeep is provided by their family (national taxes in Ulek are only for keeping up ambassadors and a standing army, all other taxes are set by and paid to local nobility). At present the Duke's Cabinet includes The Lord of War, The Lord of the Treasury, The Lord of Merchants and Trade and The Lord of Embassy. This last member of the cabinet is responsible for keeping track of ambassadors to the Duchy and for appointing ambassadors and keeping up embassies from the Duchy..

Some have speculated that these offices are often little more than figureheads, as any important decisions are often laid before all the nobles for debate [22]. And as in other things, the Duke often calls upon members of other races throughout the Duchy for their opinions and advice.

There are no hostile nations bordering the Duchy, as they maintain good relations with Keoland and The Old Country's other former lands, from the Gran March to the Principality of Ulek. In addition, the Duchy of Ulek maintains a working relationship with many of the dwarven clans of the Lortmils and of course, has always had a strong kinship with the elven nation of Celene, though this has been subject to internal strain since the Greyhawk Wars.

Although several hundred miles away, Grenowen is well aware of the danger the Empire of the Pomarj presents to all of the Ulek states. Many troops and adventurers journey southeast from the Duchy to aid the forces of the Principality of Ulek in their struggles with Turrosh Mak. Another tangible threat to the Duchy of Ulek - and all good lands of the Flanaess - is the Scarlet Brotherhood. After the Greyhawk Wars, everyone took note of this sinister organization, including Duke Grenowen. Lastly, there are those who remember Keoland's imperialistic era, and are wary that some future king might want to return Keoland to its former glory.

___________________________________

NOTES

[14] Although it is a very minor point, I disagree with this. The Duchy of Ulek is in the 30-34 degrees latitude range, at a fairly high altitude. This makes it a pretty temperate zone. I take the Southern Woods of the Flanaess (as given in the Guide) to mean trees from those areas we would call subtropical - or Mediterranean - and warmer. Olive trees, for example, won't grow that far inland/away from the sea.

[15] This listing of creatures seems appropriate, considering the standard encounters for Axewood and Silverwood use the Faerie encounter tables (Glossography, p. 12).

[16] Treants also appear in the Silverwood encounter tables, in the Glossography, p. 12.

[17] There's that word elected, again. I think it is more likely that they did not establish a new seat of government, but rather just transformed the old provincial capital into the new sovereign capital.

[18] This sounds a bit closer to a fantasy medieval style of government. A group of noble peers (lacking a clear sovereign) very well might gather to appoint one of their own to the most preeminent position.

[19] This sentence makes the Duchy sound awfully modern. Maintaining a national military? I think it is better to say they have the liege-vassal system. The manpower of the standing army is contributed to by the vassals, in men-at-arms or a substitution fee (like scutage). As far as international relations -- I'd rather think the Duke has heralds and envoys, and trusted advisors, but not a cabinet.

[20] Another facet of the Duchy's politics that could be mentioned is the high number of half-elves and humans who have elven blood. In the Guide, p. 39: "Many of the inhabitants of the land are partially elven, and the remainder are well-disposed to demihumans." It is important to stress the full political integration of races in the Duchy of Ulek - the author does address this point later in the "Culture" section.

[21] I like the idea of the Convocations, or noble councils. Three a year may be a lot, for elvenfolk.

[22] As I've said before, I don't like the idea of this 'cabinet' at all. It is too modern, or Renaissance-sounding, for my tastes. Let's keep it more medieval and vital. The nobles have battle-readiness as their primary function and purpose. They are the ones who command the troops, collect the taxes, and oversee trade and local justice. The Duke himself (or a noble on his behalf) receives foreign embassies or visits foreign sovereigns, to decide on affairs of state.

[CONTINUED FROM HERE IN PART 3]

Re: Taras' reply to the Duchy of Ulek

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 99 17:12PM PST
From: Taras Cranden-Guarhoth Add To Address Book Add To
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Taras' reply to the Duchy of Ulek

> II: Well Taras, that is mostly unchanged from Steve's article. And at this time, I have no good defense against your point (as I usually saty out of the history arguments). Perhaps Steve does. It is definitely clear though that there is a mix of Suel and Oeridian that dominates the Sheldomar, and
> this mix is in varying proportions depending upon whta country we're talking
> about.

Eh, it's not my area of the world, so I'm a tad behind on quotes for it.
Now, if we were talking Aerdy, I might be able to recite page numbers off the top of my head. But, we're not, and I'm feeling particularily unambitious (hey, I already had to go play with hexes, trying to get those map coords for you, what more do you want?), so I'll hunt for them some other day. :)

> II: Hehe. I brought this up with Steve as well. If such a forest did exist,
> then what happened to it? He said that perhaps Vecna had a hand in such wholesale destruction. If it was due to immigrating humans, then IMO the native elves wouldn't have had such good relations with the people of the Ulek states.

Nah, it was the Plains Elves. Then the other elves invited the Suel, Flan, and Oerids in to kick the plains elves out. The humans went so far as to drive them underground, where they eventually became the drow. That's where your forest went. :P

Actually, given some quotes about Vecna that I've been reading lately, he is the best choice for a deforester...he did sack Fleeth, and cut off everyone's head as a kinda sick joke on the people who were pleading with him to allow them to surrender. Oh, and he devestated Mara when their chieftan refused to pay the tribute of heads (why was Vecna collecting heads?) one year. Nice guy.

> T: Errr...wouldn't that leave them especially open to, say, bribery?
>
> II: But when rulers have all the power and money, who's bribing them?

Well, you don't exactly bribe the guy with no power, now do you? That'd be kinda pointless... :) As for the money, well, since only elves can be nobles, according to your write-up, do only the elves have money? Somehow, I think there are some weathy human, gnomish, whatever species merchants kicking around the place who have no titles to their name. They'd be the ones bribing the officials.

> II: What page is that info on? That seems awfully north to me (looking at the Darlene Map) and way too close to Courwood. I can't believe that the elves in Celene would allow orcs to claim that vast swathe of the Suss.
Also we (the Triad) do have some liberties with the difference between that
> reference (585 CY) and the current campaign time (591)

It's on the inside cover of the Atlas of the Flanaess from the FtA boxed set. It's got lots of political borders on that map. And, well, why the Pomarj got all that land, and what happened to Courwood was the source of at least one debate...check the archives...you might find a good answer there, one that might give you some ideas for adventures in the area. :) As for the pass, providing I did these hex number things correctly, it seems to wind through the Lortmils from hex S4-105 to R4-101. Not a huge border with the Duchy, but it does exist. Right on the only real path to Celene.

> II: Again I find it hard to believe that Turrosh Mak effectively holds land
> that north. If it is so I agree.

Who says he holds them effectively? They're humanoids...they can hold the mountains better than elves, and there are plenty of holds for them to have worked their way into...of both pre- and post-Hateful Wars construction. I find it quite concievable that they could hold the Lortmils...it did take the concentrated efforts of just about every nation surrounding that chain to drive the little buggers out in the first place, after all.

> II: Yup. I just didn't know whether to include that or not, as WG8 is "non-canon" (though I'd love to "steal" Jurnre, but it doesn't fit as a substitute for Waybury or Tringlee)

You know, that's scary. I just guessed that Rhola would be a Unicorn...I'd completely forgotten about the Jurnre entry in FoI... :)

> II: Yeah, it was. I used Steve's stuff wherever possible. And I admit I'm no
> expert on elven culture or politics, and certainly any of you "dandelion-eaters" out there are more than welcome to comment and give suggestions.I know about the trees. That was taken from the '83 box set,
and in addition considering the importance of roanwood and ipp trees, the
> descriptions from that set need to be added as well. I would like to see that 83 info on a common website so every Triad doesn't have to type the same stuff. Thanks again.

Well, hopefully, if more triads follow your lead, and post some material here, y'all can start to get an idea of how the other triads are doing the culture in the area...so you can get more info on it...it wouldn't seem right to have someone go ahead and do something resembling medieval France...and then across the river, it looks more like the Aztecs...and I'm sure players would notice that, too... :)

==
Taras Guarhoth, Sage of House Cranden
http://www.bestweb.net/~guarhoth/

Get paid to surf the web:
http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=FMU289

Re: The Duchy of Ulek "source document"

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 99 04:55AM PST
From: sander Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The Duchy of Ulek "source document"

> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:10:52 PST
> From: Immaculate Image
> Subject: The Duchy of Ulek "source document"

> Before I continue, I first have to credit Steve Wilson, who kindly allowed our Triad to use his Duchy of Ulek article from the Codex as the basis for our own purposes.
>
> Also if anyone is interested in contributing in any way, especially if you live in GA, get in touch with me.

I'm presently not in GA, indeed, I am quite far from it...

But I just love the Ulek states. There are lots of comments below. I have somewhy a feeling that some of these are due to the insufficent fleshing out of the County and Principality of Ulek.

> Slash it and smash it, baby, 'cause here it is....
>
> ULEK, DUCHY OF
> Ruler: His Noble Radiance, Duke Grenowen of Ulek
> Capital: Tringlee (pop. 14,800/ hex S4 -107)
> Major Settlements: Waybury (13,500/Y4 - 107), The Crossroads (4,100/W4 -109), Silverbend (3,200/U4 - 111)
> Population: 28,000

Wait a second. 14800+13500+4100+3200=35600 which is quite a bit more than the total population. Hence the total population should be increased.

> Demi-Humans: High Elves (12,500), Sylvan Elves (5,000), Gnomes (5,000), Tallfellow Halflings (2,500)

Shouldn't humans be listed here? After all, there are 25000 demihumans which leaves only 3000 humans. Unless teh population count is increased (see above).

> Humanoids: None
> Resources: Foodstuffs, Cloth, Electrum, Gems

And the rest of the writeup continues to totally ignore both foodstuffs and cloth, even though these are listed as resources and should thus be important.

> National Alignment: Chaotic Good

[big snip]

> already separate Ulek states and granted them their "independence." The High Elves in the northernmost portion of the province chose Grenowen to be their Duke. It was Grenowen who dared the mountains to the east, and more importantly, the illusion ridden and heavily guarded lands of
>Celene, to bring word of the plight of the elves of Ulek to the queen.

Is there an offical view of Grenowin or even a write-up?

> The High Elves of the northern third of Uleki province established the capitol for their country in one of the old Provincial Seats, in Tringlee.
> After a short while, Keoland welcomed this new government, recognizing the wisdom in local rule.

The wording amlmost sounds like it resulted in civil reforms in Keoland...

> The opening of neighboring Celene proved prosperous for the Duchy.
> Celene's fine products flowed exclusively through the Duchy into the rest of the Flanaess, and this trade, when added to that of the Duchy's own products, brought great wealth into the land. Up until the time of the Greyhawk Wars, the Duchy prospered. It is the most accessible of
> all elven lands to humankind and other demihumans, and this atmosphere has made the Duchy and the Duke popular both in his lands and abroad.

Meaning? Now that the GHW are over and Celene is not so open, what about the trade? As such a trade would also bring additional wealth into not only the Duchy of Ulek but also Celene, the merchants and anybody connected to them are going to be grumbling if it has stopped entirely, and would probably create a fair bit of smuggling. If it continues but is limited by say requiring a special royal permit or somesuch, it would create some smuggling and quite a bit of intrigue.

Which are IMHO excellent story leads.

[snip]

> southern lands. These nobles are also strongly in support of the Knights of Luna in Celene, and desire to help change Celene's isolationist policies. There is even some radical talk, that the Queen
> should be "forced" into agreeing to aid both Furyondy and Veluna to the north and the Principality of Ulek to the south. The Duke favors a more conservative diplomatic approach with regard to Celene and the solution of these problems.

IMC the Knights of Luna came to be due to advice by a Duchy noble to some nobles of Celene who like the atmosphere in the Duchy quite a bit more than the overly conservative atmosphere in Celene. The problem with providing help to foreign states is that your own forces get to see how others live...

[snip]

> dwarves, and gnomes of these mountains are supported by the Ulek states, less actively by Celene, and indirectly by small tribes of aarakocra that fly the central spine of the Lortmils. The wealth of the Lortmils
> is great, with excellent gems, ores, and precious metals. Some of the dwarven clan leaders are said to be as rich as princes, and are approached by emissaries from Furyondy and even Nyrond for aid. Dwarves
> are not, however, susceptible to such overtures.

Hmm... Not listed above in resources.

[snip - Rivers]

> Two ancient woodlands grow within the borders of Ulek, the remnants of the once great forest that spanned the length of the Sheldomar Valley from the Dim Forest hundreds of miles to the north, and the Dreadwood which lies hundreds of miles to the south. The Axewood is a small forest
> that straddles the border of Keoland and the Duchy of Ulek some 150 miles west of Tringlee and 60 miles north of Niole Dra. Wood elves and treants dwell here, as well as a number of small sprites (atomies and grigs). The other forest, the Silverwood, lies entirely in the confines

Somebody should work on those.

> of the southern reaches of the Duchy. Lying between the Sheldomar and Kewl rivers, this wood is home to some 3,000 sylvan elves and other demihumans (gnomes and a few halflings). The elves are said to nurture

Forest dwelling halflings?

[snip - additional forest]

[snip - roads, got to check it out on a map]

> ECOLOGY: The forests of the Duchy of Ulek are in a geographical position that tends to give them the best mixture of tree species from both what are considered typically Central and Southern woods in the Flanaess. The following list details the most important species to be found within the
> Duchy: apple, apricot, ash, bay, beech, briar, bronzewood, camphor, cedar, cherry, chestnut, chokecherry, crabapple, elder, elm, fig, galda, grapefruit, gum, hawthorne, hickory, hornwood, ipp, ipt, kara, larch, lemon, lime, locust, mangrove, maple, mulberry, myrtle, oak, olive,
> orange, peach, pear, phost, pine, plum, poplar, roanwood, thorn, tulip tree, usk, walnut, willow, yarpick, and yew. There are also the

The list is extensive. As there aren't for some reason the average temps by months listed [actually, this would be a very usefull information. Climate should always come first before ecology.] it is hard to say whetever all the trees would actually grow there. I am suspicious of apricot, orange, maybe also lemon. And I don't know all the other trees listed 8-(

> semi-intelligent and carnivorous plants to be found in remote areas of the forests. Choke creepers, hangmen trees, giant sundews and kampfults won't hesitate to end the life of an unwary or wounded adventurer.

These invariantly creep up.

> Although the Duchy is a relatively safe land, there are the odd encounters with dangerous life-forms. Humanoids are virtually non-existent within the borders of this country, and large groups of
> humanoids haven't walked the plains of the Duchy since before the Hateful Wars. There do remain hidden pockets of some humanoid races, though none are larger than orcs or bugbears. The smaller races, such as kobolds, jermalaine, xvarts, and goblins tend to fare better, though the
> most common humanoid plaguing the forests are the elusive kech. Igundi, skulks, kenku, adherers, and dopplegangers have also found a niche in various parts of the Duchy.

Way too many humanoids imho, especially considering the population toll of none. Sounds a lot more like 'small numbers of just about any small humanoid race can be occasionally be found'.

> Needlemen plague the Silverwood like few other places in the Flanaess, thriving on the predominence of elves. Also among the tiny creatures of the land are gremlins, fremlins, galltrits, killmouli, and booka, though the latter two are much more tolerable than the members of the gremlin
> family. It is more common to encounter wild herd animals on the plains, and on occasions, their monstrous variants. Predatory animals, such as brown bears, wolves, lions, cougars, and coyotes can also be found in more isolated areas of the Duchy.

Brown bears are omnivores. Cougras would probably live in the lortmils (but seeing as bears and lions live in mountainous areas as well - counsider their former populations in italy, greece and spain) I'm not sure if there would be a niche for cougars. And I would definately leave coyottes out.

> Among the true monsters, there is no shortage of isolated hazards.
> Anhkegs and ant lions are known to grab unwary travelers on the plains, and in the depths of the forest, owlbears can make short work of

Owlbears are cool.

[snip]

> rumors that a red dragon or two may still lair within the Lortmils, but such creatures would have to be crafty and secretive indeed to avoid the attentions of their eternal enemies, the dwarves. It is highly doubtful that any dragons reside in either the Axewood or the Silverwood. If such
> a beast did, however, it would be unusually intelligent, powerful, and

This all leaves out the various neutral and good dragons. Considering the whole galore of those that exist...

> careful, to be able to avoid the attention of the elves and the good aligned creatures of those woods. Whether or not any Greyhawk dragons have taken up residence in Tringlee or Waybury is another unknown.

> There are no large, stationary bodies of water within the borders of the Duchy, and the Sheldomar River and its tributaries are well traveled and safe. There is an abundance of fish species, and fisherman and

The rivers are first declared safe...

> adventures alike should be aware of the dangers presented by some of the giant members of certain of these fish, notably catfish. In the slower moving shallows below Niole Dra, dragonfish are also a lethal hazard to unprotected feet wading in the water. Nereids and water nagas are not
> unheard of in some of the remote areas of the rivers, especially where the Sheldomar passes through the Axewood. Fortunately, there is not much and then it sounds like nobody would go near the rivers, at least not without arming themselves to the teeth. There aren't all that many remote areas of the rivers either.

> to fear from more exotic and dangerous water-based predators, as there is little room and even less tolerance by the people who inhabit the shore communities for such creatures. Perhaps the most common "monster" that rears its ugly head every so often is the giant snapping turtle,
> and crocodiles bask on the banks of the Kewl below Silverbend. There are

Crocodiles? I am afraid that it would be a bit too cold for crocodiles, or the region (at least the south cost keoland and the principality) are quite a bit warmer than considered before. Note that the critical part here is temperature in the winter. That's why crocodiles don't in real life live on the northern cost of the Mediterannean but do live in Egypt.

> exceptions to this, when some ocean going monster travels north up past Gradsul and into the Sheldomar.

There ius a *long* way up from Gradsul and the water of teh river that may well be somewhat brakish down near Gradsul is definately not so up there, which would discourage the monsters to move too high up the river...

> Sylvan and faerie creatures thrive in this land. Brownies, buckawns, atomies, grigs, sprites, quicklings, pixies, mites, snyads, faux faeries, leprechauns, and stwingers all inhabit the forested areas of
> the eastern Sheldomar Valley, seeming to exist for the sole purpose of harassing the forest's larger two-legged inhabitants. Pseudodragons and

Well, this is a clear case of size-chauvinism.

> faerie dragons also haunt the woods, and dryads, nymphs, and korred reside in remote glens. There is also a significant population of centaurs and voadkyn, and no shortage of treants within the Silverwood.
> A truly lucky soul might even catch a glimpse of the rare unicorn, which also is known to inhabit that rich woodland.

If there is a significant population of centaurs, why aren't they listed in population? Why do they live in the forest? Horses don't normally...

POLITICS:

[snip - high elves rule the land, esp. the nobility]

> The Duke and his cabinet is responsible for handling matters which affect the entire realm, such as international relations and trade, and the maintenance of a national military. The local nobility of a given
> area, be they of whatever race, is responsible for all local governance.
> Waybury is of note in this regard, as over the years as it has increased in population it has increased its political influence, and is considered a seat of human influence within the Duchy.

At which point it springs to my mind that

> Three times a year, the Convocation of Lords is held. During this time, matters of national concern are presented to the elven nobility, and they give suggestions to the Duke on how to handle matters. The Duke
> also announces any policies he has decided upon which affect the entire realm. There are also influential advisers of other races that Grenowen may call upon, and the Duke is quite good in tapping the experience and wisdom of others.

Here is a contradiction. Shouldn't the elven be droped from in front of the nobility? Otherwise Waybury and the gnomes and halflings and humans would have no political influence.

> During the month of Lacysnows the third meeting of the year, the Convocation of Branches, is held. Here the nobility votes on whether or

As here is just nobility, not specificly elven nobility the previous paragraphs should be corrected.

> not they will continue to support the Duke by laying switches from the prized ipt trees on the ground in two piles--one for those who favor the Duke, and one for those opposed. Although it is entirely possible for any individual noble house to oppose the Duke actively, this has never
> carried to the point of warfare. The Duke may resign his post at any time he desires, at which point in time a special Convocation of Selection would be called.

How is the succession of the Duke handled?

[snip - the cabinet]

> There are no hostile nations bordering the Duchy, as they maintain good relations with Keoland and The Old Country's other former lands, from the Gran March to the Principality of Ulek. In addition, the Duchy of Ulek maintains a working relationship with many of the dwarven clans of
> the Lortmils and of course, has always had a strong kinship with the elven nation of Celene, though this has been subject to internal strain since the Greyhawk Wars.

The Duchy has quite a lot of gnomes in it's lands. Why not expand and (peacefully) get the dwarves to join in? Indeed, how much are the dwarves concerned who considers the surface area their own?

> Although several hundred miles away, Grenowen is well aware of the danger the Empire of the Pomarj presents to all of the Ulek states, and many troops and adventurers journey southeast from the Duchy to aid the forces of the Principality of Ulek in their struggles with Turrosh Mak.

Also a good reason to prod the Lortmils dwarves to join the Duchy.
Especially as teh Duchy is providing help to other dwarves and is clearly friendly to various races.

> Another tangible threat to the Duchy of Ulek, and all good lands of the Flanaess is the Scarlet Brotherhood. After the Greyhawk Wars, everyone took note of this sinister organization, including Duke Grenowen.
> Lastly, there are those who remember Keoland's imperialistic era, and are wary that a future king might want to return Keoland to its former glory.

Something they share in common with all the other border areas of the Keoland. A good reason for co-operation.

> MILITARY: The military of the Duchy is small but effective, and is noted for its many high elven fighter/mages. The most common activity performed by the army is patrolling the plains of the Duchy, and at most times some 25% of the total force is out on patrol. At any given time,
> the size of the army ranges from 1000 to 2000 strong. Perhaps half of this total is comprised of humans, another quarter high elves, and the

Considering that there may be as few as 3000 humans in the Duchy, a very significant portion of humans are in the military.

> other races of the Duchy make up the balance. About 30% of the total force are comprised of medium cavalry, and heavy and light cavalry make up an additional 15% each. The Duchy is renown for its cavalry, and it serves the needs of the country quite well.

Well, cavalry is not usefull on mountainous or mostly hilly lands or in the forest. The needs of the Duchy for cavalry?

Besides, what exactly is 'medium cavalry' in Flannaess?

> Another 30% of the total force comprises mixed infantry, who serve to defend cities and fixed positions, or hold ground allowing the cavalry to engage an enemy. Elven infantry tend to prefer the long sword and bow, while human troops tend to be crossbowmen and billmen. The
> halflings and gnomes troops use short swords and hand axes (although halfling troops also carry slings). The final 10% are considered specialists, and include rangers and archers from the Axewood and
> Silverwood, as well as priests, mages, scouts and gnomish sappers. These

Sappers?????

> forces do not include city guardsmen or personal guards of either the leadership or the nobility.
>
> In addition to this, each elven noble house (of which their are quite a few) generally has a household force which may number from 30 to 100 men at arms. These troops are armed by the whim or need of the elven lord or lady to whom they owe allegiance. In addition to this, it is possible

This suggests that:
a) nonelven nobility / leaders don't have armed forces
b) towns don't have their own forces

> for Duke to issue the call for the "Grand Host of Ulek". This includes all of the forces of the elven lords and an additional 25 to 50 civilian men or women from each noble's holding capable of bearing arms holding.
> This force may number up to 5,000 strong.

> The Duchy is loath to spend money on mercenaries to train new troops, and instead recruits veterans from the military to spend
Hiring mercenaries for training? A novel thought.

> one-year rotations in training camps as instructors. This saves the Duchy money as well as promoting trust and morale among the army. And rather than maintaining expensive (and unnecessary) fortresses
> throughout the Duchy, patrols normally billet with local city guards or
Especially considering that the local lords are bound to have their own castles and the villages and towns to have their own protections that they can maintain themselves.

> form camps near smaller towns and villages. The primary training base of the Duchy's forces is known as The Crossroads. This fortified town is centrally located at the intersection of the Sheldomar Pike and the Duke's Road, and the wide open grasslands are excellent for training
> young horsemen and raising steeds to serve in the cavalry. The expansive plains of the eastern Sheldomar Valley also provide excellent opportunities to work on combined tactics and maneuvers, including battlefield magic. Most patrols originate from this base, and at any
> given time nearly half of the strength of the army is located here. When

Now take a look at the map, and place 25 dots (1000/2=500, minimum patrol size is 10, and there are bound to be ~250 soldiers in the towns). If the patrols are smaller, place less dots.

> a particular formation or unit is preparing for a tour of the Pomarj border, they will frequently train in this area prior to deploying to the Principality of Ulek.
>
> Since the Greyhawk Wars, there has been an additional military burden taken up by the Duchy: forwarding a force to assist in patrolling and maintaining the Principality of Ulek's border with the Pomarj. This force is typically about 200 members strong, and is comprised of the
> same percentage makeup as the rest of the army. This force typically rotates every six months and is self-supporting while in Corond's lands, though the Principality is responsible for any additional supplies or medical aid.

Not clear why not hire mercenaries to cover at least part of that burden.
And it sounds likely there would be slightly more gnomes in the force and maybe even dwarves and slightly less so elves.

> The elves of the Silverwood and the demihumans and woodsmen of the Axewood maintain their own patrols within the woodlands, but may request assistance from the army on rare occasions. Since the Greyhawk Wars more effort has

Who is the perceived enemy in there? Keoland? Monster infestations?

> been put forth in recruiting mages and priests to serve in the military, but this has met with limited success. Other than the elven fighter/mages, wizards have little interest in being subject to the whims of some knight on horseback. The predominant faiths within the borders of the
> Duchy don't exactly lend themselves to the war effort either, but this is changing, as a slow and steady influx of immigrants from the Gran March and the Lost Lands have brought their more militaristic clergy
> with them. Such faiths are slowly building a presence especially in and around Waybury.

So the immigrants are mostly settling in and around Waybury? And there are significant amounts of them? Why isn't immigration documented anywhere?

> RELIGION: In keeping with the Duchy's very cosmopolitan and multi-cultural setting, many deities are worshipped here. The Duchy is unique among lands of the Flanaess with respect to the collection of
> Powers venerated by humans. Few and far between are the worshippers of lawful or martial deities, as the Duchy has had a relatively trouble free existence since the end of the Short War. Nature deities such as
> Beory, Ehlonna, Phyton, and Velnius join the brothers Celestian and

Python???

> Fharlanghn among the powers venerated throughout the Duchy. Most of the deities favored by bards also suffer no shortage of worshippers in this fair land, as Lydia, Lirr, Myhriss, Olidammara, and even the elven demigod Ye'Cind have followers in the cities.

[snip]

> The priests within the Duchy are all given respect due their social status as in other lands of the Flanaess, but unlike many other regions, the priests have little political power, and probably don't desire any.
> Political machinations and intrigues generally don't concern the clergy of the aforementioned powers.

That's good. Except that it would mean a lot of pressure by the priesthoods on the nobility to join their ranks, starting already in early youth.

[snip]

Sander

The Duchy of Ulek "source document"

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 99 21:32PM PST
From: Taras Cranden-Guarhoth Add To Address Book Add To
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The Duchy of Ulek "source document"

> plains and forests between Hellfurnaces and the Lortmils. Unlike the Aerdy
> to the north and east, the Keogh tribe mixed with the Suel, and founded the
> kingdom of Keoland, and the descendants of the Uleki were given a large province on the eastern boundary of Keoland to rule. This area was

Eh, don't ask me why, or from where, but I was always under the impression that somehow, the Suel managed to remain in power over the peoples of the Sheldomar.

> Historically, the demihumans of these mountains have fought long and hard to
> drive out the humanoids and monsters, culminating in the Hateful Wars which
> led to the creation of the Pomarj, from whence many red glowing eyes look back to their "birthright" and seek to regain it. The hill dwarves, mountain

Just a note, but the Pomarj was already there...just before the humanoids waltzed in, it was a collection of petty squabbling humans (gee, not much change, other than adding an -oid to the end of the species of the rulers).

> Two ancient woodlands grow within the borders of Ulek, the remnants of the once great forest that spanned the length of the Sheldomar Valley from the Dim Forest hundreds of miles to the north, and the Dreadwood which lies hundreds of miles to the south. The Axewood is a small forest that straddles

Why does it seem like there's an effort to cover just about every bit of plains with forests in the past? Couldn't some of it have been, well, always plains? After all, the much beloved (yeah, right) plains elves had to originate somewhere.

> ruler deems necessary to deal with the issues facing the country. Cabinet members must be selected from the Elven nobility, and their upkeep is provided by their family (national taxes in Ulek are only for keeping up ambassadors and a standing army, all other taxes are set by and paid to
> local nobility). At present the Duke's Cabinet includes The Lord of War,

Errr...wouldn't that leave them espically open to, say, bribery?

> MILITARY: The military of the Duchy is small but effective, and is noted for its many high elven fighter/mages. The most common activity performed by
> the army is patrolling the plains of the Duchy, and at most times some 25% of the total force is out on patrol. At any given time, the size of the army

Personally, I'd have the main duty of the army be patrolling and guarding that mountain border, since, according to the map in the FtA Atlas of the Flanaess, the part of the Lortmils controlled by the humanoids does border on the Duchy of Ulek. IIRC, Celene Pass (linking the Duchy of Ulek with Celene) marks the northern border of the Pomarj's lands.

> promoting trust and morale among the army. And rather than maintaining expensive (and unnecessary) fortresses throughout the Duchy, patrols

In the area where the Duchy's and Pomarj's borders meet, those fortresses may not be so useless.

> Since the Greyhawk Wars, there has been an additional military burden taken
> up by the Duchy: forwarding a force to assist in patrolling and maintaining
> the Principality of Ulek's border with the Pomarj. This force is typically

Err...I think this'll need revision...since they have their own border with the Pomarj, too. Remember, the Pomarj owns the Lortmils south of Celene Pass.

> piece, has a square hole in the center of the coin. The unicorn sigil of an
> old Suel noble house (also evident on the County's coat of arms) is repeated
> around the periphery of the coin five times, and the obverse bears the motto
> "Peace in Strength" in ancient Suel.

Probabily House Rhola or Neheli, since they're the prominent Suel nobles who settled in the Sheldomar Valley.

Whew. That was, umm, long. It's good, but I don't quite agree with everything dealing with the government and such, but, overall, it works. You just might want to do something with those lists...espically that list of trees...it doesn't read very well.

==
Taras Guarhoth, Sage of House Cranden
http://www.bestweb.net/~guarhoth/

Book of van Kaufmann, vol. 1, chapter 1, part 3

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 99 13:20PM PST
From: sander Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Book of van Kaufmann, vol. 1, chapter 1, part 3

The parts should probably have all been posted at once - but typing in already existing material is incredibly boring.

As always:

* The ideas presented in the book are those of 'van Kaufmann' and may not always correctly reflect the relity.
* Tastes vary personaly
* Locals are prone to play pranks at foreigners, especially youths who seem to have way too much money and knwo way too little.
* Most of the information definately *IS* correct.

Sander

There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - these are all just illusions.

--------------------

The "Must know" cheeses of Uleks

The Yondalla's Wheel - this is most definately the best known cheese in the Uleks - and could also be beyond these everywhere where the halflings live. The cheese is only made by the halflings, and even so only for the High Holy Day of Yondalla. How and from what the cheese is made is a secret, but the cheese definately does taste extremely good. While only the halflings make the cheese and it is generaly not available to others, a wheel or two is produced each year that is sold off with the proceedings said to be used for the good of the community, or at least so they claim.
A small serving of it draws a hefty price of 10gp even here, and probably a much higher one in all the fine establishments elsewhere. Worst part is that the wheel is weighted first and then the internal half is removed and sacrificed to Yonalla.

Milcaves Blue - A variant of blue sheepmilk cheese made in the Milcave Barony in the County of Ulek. The cheese is 'developed' in special caves in the County. The exact location of these is somewhat of a secret. Very tasty.

Yellow Mellow - A very creamy and mellow white molded cheese. Suprisingly, it is very white also on the inside, so I am not sure where the yellow in the name comes from. There are several subvariants and this cheese can be found everywhere.

Lortmil early - A goatmilk cheese made early in spring by the gnomes. I'm not sure what they find in the cheese, it being of quite bland. Must be acquired taste. Suprisingly, quite a lot of it is exported.

Duke's Pink - while usually sold under different names in other places, it is named so here at it's place of origin. Duke's Pink is a very delicious mixed white/pink molded cheese made by a renown gnome family. It is one of the best cheeses made in the Uleks and goes especially well with pink champaign. Curiously enough, they have not duplicated the pink mold in other cheeses, making it the only pink molded cheese. [Duchy]

Trollfender - a very strong blue coat cheese made by the dwarves. It is strong and has a very strong smell. I have been told that it's name comes from the ability of it's smell to fend off hungry trolls. Whetever that is true I have not had the oppourturity to verify. It may be considered polite to either ask the other patrons if they mind you eating it there or go outside for the time. [Principality]

Snowcake - A white molded cheese covered with a thick edible white mold covering. Made in the form of a small sheel (without a hole in the middle) looking exactly as if made from snow. [Duchy]

Flowerwing - It is claimed that this cheese is made by leprechauns, and at the very least everybody whom I have met has claimed to know how or from what it is made. It could just as well be that it is just a ploy to extract money from the believing it, as the price is quite outrageous. It is a soft and deliciuous cheese flavoured by several herbs none of which I know of and the petals of one or two unknown flowers. [Duchy]

Pine cheese - a peculiar but tasty cheese with specially cured pieces of a mushroom growing near and under pines - read lactarius they call it - in it. The widely known cheese, usually made in the form of small cubes is transported in boxes made of pine and the cubes have an inprint of a pine beauty moth on the 'up' side. [Principality]

Privateer's morning - This is a small hard cheese literally covered with spices on the outside. Said to be originaly from seafarers as the cheese is claimed to preserve well in all climates. Presently can be found in the whole Principality, not just on the coast.

Ehlonna's appetizer - A cheese highly liked by rangers and other followers of Ehlonna. May be hard to come by for those not of the faith. Quite tasty.

The Tramp - as the legends go, an old halfling tramp who was about to be thrown into jail and then be sent out of Tringlee for various mischief had asked if he is pardoned and sent on his way with a small sum of money if he gave a recipe to a very good cheese, indeed, his family secret. For, as he said, he was old and frail and the last of his family anyways. The cheese turned out to be excellent and teh halfling was freed and sent on his way. It surfaced only later, that not only was the recipe stolen from a very famous cheesemaker family but that the halfling was a master thief
who thus was allowed to leave the city with a small fortune he had stolen. The tramp had only been a disguise. Thus the name of the cheese.

Jar cheese - actually not a single cheese but usually one of the many kinds of mellow blue cheese that has been put in a small clay (or glass for the more renown cases) jar filled with oil in which herbs have been added. A lot of these get exported as the cheese preserves well as long as the jar is unopened and uncracked. Anything in a glass jar is worth fighting for, even if the cheese is of elven manufacture.

Blue bagpipe - a blue and white molded cheese made by the halflings in the form of a small wheel. The origin of the name is unknown but it has found - as far as I know - good reception everywhere.

Door-opner - this tasty cheese that is usually spiced with several herbs and spices has a semi-important part in the halfling weddings in teh County of Ulek. When the bridesgroom shows up at the wedding day at the brides place of living, he is expected to have a number of these, all preferably made by himself. All but one of these is auctioned off to the people attending the wedding. The one remaining is eaten by the bride, the bridesgroom and the bride's family.

--------

SPOILER:
.

As a hint about pranks, think about 'Duke's Pink' and 'Trollfender'. Consider what a dwarf may do if his belowed cheese is ordered by saying something like 'and a piece of that extremely bad smelling cheese that can keep trolls away - Trollfender or what it was called').

Bladesinger guilds in the Duchy of Ulek

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:07:07 +0200
From: sander
Subject: Bladesinger guilds in the Duchy of Ulek

For those who want to add some differensation to the bladesingers. It is presently very low detail, there is nothing about offices, personages, internal politics, holdings, etc. essential things.

It is probably useless to those who don't allow bladesingers or feel that there can be just one guild of bladesingers. See below the "--------".

Sander

There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - these are all just illusions.

--------

Bladesinger guilds in the Duchy of Ulek. This is the *LOW* detail writeup. It is covered by a regular 4 clause BSD licence.

1. *THE* Guild of Bladesingers

The guild has it's own land holdings and is quite rich - some refer to it jokingly as the Order of Bladesingers - but this institution is what is meant when a native of the region says 'guild of bladesingers'. Due to it's land holdings, the guild has it's own seat and voice in the council of the nobles, separate from those of any members who may have a seat there.

The economic and political side (and other mundane parts) of the guild is handled by the Chancelor. The Chancelor is answerable to the Guildmaster and the Council and has to leave all personal propety and concernes behind when he or she takes the postion. Thus far, none of the Chancelors has broken the oath of 'swearing the cuting of all ties to matters personal'. Chancelor is not a postion most of the bladesingers view as desirable as it is largely bureaucratic. The Chancelor is elect from among the elder members by the Council and the Guildmaster. The Chancelor is banned from all regular bladesinger activities and may not take part in the Council or Great Assembly. To the regular guild members, the doings of the Chancelor are even more mysterious than that of the Librarian.

The Guildmaster, Chancelor, Librarian, Weaponsmaster and Master of the Arcane form the Council of the Five that is effectively the executive branch of the Guild.

2. The Guild of Shadow-singers

These bladesinger are all specialists - they are all illusionists. The guild acknowledges the superiority of the regular bladesinger guild, while the full guild views them as an offshoot for the not so competent. The running joke in the main guild (and for a long time already so) is that the next offshoot will be divination specialists - they never actually use their swords, just sit at home and try to divine the best best way how not to use these.

The members of the shadow-singers are taught a lot of skills relating to stealth, and quite a bit more about magic than regular bladesingers, and so at the expense of swordart. The shadow-singers function as one level lower when a regular bladesinger of equal level. Thus a first level shadow-singer has no bladesinger weapons abilities and second level has those of a first level regular bladesinger. On the positive side, the illusion school spells that the shadow singers cast *in combat* function as if the caster was one level higher.

The tatoo the members wear is not a tatoo at all but a version of a permanent "wizard's mark".

3. The Guild of the Prancing Pony

None of the other guilds *EVER* allow their members to call, or even think, of the members of this guild as bladesingers. And they are more than certain that they have every right to do so. After all, they are not even trained in the art of the longsword, but in the art the spear! To their mind, the originator of this guild should be crossed out from the list of all elves and be damned until the eternity of all time runs out.

The mebers of this bladesinger guild are trained in the art of riding and use of the spear - and to a much smaller amount, the use of lance. The admission requirements to this guild are very strict. In addition to that, the members are taught the variant of the bladesong of this guild (that radically differs from others) only when they have become full members after completing the TEST after reaching 5th level. The TEST is a well guarded secret, full knowledge of which is limited to those having taken it. It is a high treason to reveal it, and thus only the general impression of it is present among non-members and junior members.

The TEST consist of disarming and subduing three knights on heavy warhorses armed with swords and heavy lances. The full membership hopefull, however, must sit on an untrained pony (hence the name of the guild) and and is allowed to use spear as the only weapon.

Those that survive the test not making it become a kind of 'lay brothers'.
They remain with the guild but can not take positions in teh hierarchy and never learn the full bladesong. Full members *NEVER* fail their riding proficency checks, unless they voluntarily choose to do so. They have the normal bladesinger abilities (but with spear, not longsword) and are proficent with (any kind) of lance, but prefer to use spear.

The members of this guild don't wear a tatoo. The stance on teh thing is that they will one - that of a prancing pony - when the bladesinger guild accepts them as equals. This guild is unique to the Duchy of Ulek.

4. The Guild of the Silver Branch

This guild is a relatively recent off-shoot from the main guild. The main difference between the two is that the guild ofthe silver branch put the intrests of the Duchy of Ulek as whole - an entity consisting of not only elves but also other races - in the first place, leaving elvendom to be the second. This is something the main guild finds it cannot tolerate.

After the admission of a half-elf into the lines of this guild, there is an open feud between the Guild of Bladesingers and the Guild of the Silver Branch.

Members wear the tatoo of a silver brach done in silvery ink. This guild is unique to the Duchy of Ulek. The headquaters of this guild are in Waybury.