Tuesday, October 28, 2008

Re: Weaker Gods?

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:40:02 EST
From: ""
Subject: Re: Weaker Gods?

In a message dated 1/23/00 12:11:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, NickPerch@AOL.COM writes:

> See, I don't think these are uninteresting to PC's at all. Sure, the more martial, adventuring oriented gods will see more play from PC's, but if previous RPGA campaign experience is any indication, we'll see priests of just about every imaginable stripe. Lirr and Zodal will almost certainly
> have PC followers and priests, in the LWoG campaign, for good or ill.

That's encouraging. That's certainly something for the circles and triads to keep in mind.

deaconblue3@JUNO.COM writes:
> making some religion into something it's not,

That's a needlessly limited perspective, and one I'm not prepared to accept. It's impossible to say what a god is or is not based on one line of information, which is all we presently have for some of them. No, I suppose they don't all *need* adventurers associated with the church, but I still think it's a good idea to have them just in case, especially on a world where adventurers can bring real power to
an organization. If I have an idea for an artistically-motivated priest, I don't want to be told that my character couldn't possibly get any powers because it's only the gods of bashing that reward their faithful.
Those who make unusual choices shouldn't be penalized without just reason. If someone comes up with a priesthood that's interesting and adds to the campaign's possibilities (instead of a blah one that only
limits a god or faith's use), then so much the better.

rtaylor@CMC.NET writes:

> You're BSing when you claim a priest of Lirr should be like one of Odin or Apollo.

Heh. You just like to argue.

I didn't claim that Lirr was like Apollo or Odin. I used them as examples because it shows that poetry was something that people *respected*. It wasn't limited to something only effette intellectuals worshipped. Even if you concentrate only on the poetry aspects of Odin or Apollo, pretending they're not concerned with war or healing or athletics or death or magic, they're still interesting gods, worth including as important parts of an FRPG, because they have full, detailed personalities behind them. The Muses are mostly symbols, without a lot of stories about them (and they're linked with Apollo anyway), so they're not as useful. I can imagine giving Lirr some Muse servants or handmaidens (too minor to have a cult of their own), but demoting the entire goddess to the status of Muse would be a waste.

I don't know *anything* about Bragi, but I'll wager out of ignorance that there's more to him then the sagas record -- that's usually the way of religions (in the same way that actual worshippers of Aphrodite considered her far more than merely the goddess of love, and worshippers of Hecate weren't all witches).

Scratch that. Apparently Bragi was a real-life poet from the ninth century who was apotheosized by later poets. He's got some cool attributes like being patron of oaths (an imaginary priesthood based on this god -- I don't think there were any in real life -- might be in charge of laying geases and such on those who make pacts. There could even be a group of assassins, in a fantasy campaign, devoted to Bragi and slaying oathbreakers). I also like the runes carved into his tongue. But overall, he's doesn't seem like a good
example of a god, because he's so artificial. I'd rather Lirr was something more. If people are, like Nick Perch said, going to want to play Lirrical priests, then perhaps it would be best not to model the goddess after a divinity that had none.

Now think: how can priests of Lirr be different from priests of Lydia or Olidammara in a way that would be good for the campaign (rather than bad for the campaign, which is what treating her as a mere muse would be)?

She's has a very similar sphere of influence to Deneir, the Realmsian god of glyphs and symbols, but that's been done, so let's move on.

Here's part of what I have:

(Lady of Glyphs and Images, Queen of Stories, the White Goddess)
Lesser Goddess of Olympus, CG

Portfolio: Poetry, Prose, Literacy, Art
Aliases: Lyr, Lirra
Domain Name: Arborea/Olympus/the Land of Stories
Superior: Rao
Allies: Phyton, Vatun, Norebo, Murlynd, Joramy, Bleredd, Myhriss
Foes: Lendor
Symbol: Quillpen (or brush) and inkwell
Worshipper's Align.: NG, CG

She is opposed by Lendor, who dislikes the distortions of history Lirr's flock often create for the sake of a good story.

Her allies are lovers of epics, romances, and tall tales.

Lyr is portrayed as an intensely stylized, two-dimensional illumination in the margins of her holy texts (which are freely rewritten and reinterpreted from generation to generation, although the older editions are carefully preserved). Lirr's realm in the Outer Planes is populated by characters from every story ever told or yet to be told.

Avatar of Lirr (Mage 18, Priest 13)

AC: 7; MV 12 ; HP 42 ; THAC0 12 ; #AT 1; D 3d4
MR 80% ; SZ M (5'2")
Str 11; Dex 15; Con 10 ; Int 19 ; Wis 19; Cha 19
Spells: M: 8/8/8/5/5/4/4/4/4
P: 0/0/0/0/4/3/2
Saves PPDM 8; RSW 6; PP 7 ; BW 4; Sp 2
Special Att/ Def: Lirr is armed with a brush and pen. Anything she draws can come to life (essentially, she can summon anything she imagines). Creations of Lirr last 4d10 rounds, although some (DM's
call) become permanent.
Other Manifestations: Omens from the Lady of Glyphs include writing appearing from nowhere overnight, or even written by a ghostly hand.
The Queen of Stories is served by benevolent dream spirits and the great heroes of myth and fable.
Dogma: Art creates reality, not the other way around. By creating art you transform the past, yourself, and all who see it.
Day-to-Day Activities: Authors of legendary works gain lasting rank within the Lirrical faith. Priests act as compilers, authors, and researchers. Often, Lirricists are sent to recover or copy lost and rare works. Lirr's temples, in lieu of tithe, charge for the use of their library, but at competitive rates that make them well worth visiting.
The church of Lirr also promotes the arts in their communities.

That's what I'm talking about. Lirr is a muse only insofar as she inspires great deeds. Her clerics travel to far lands to gain fodder for their writings. She *screams* adventure. And all that without straining to make her hip or adding "berserkergang" to her list of attributes.
It can be done, if you're willing to try.

Russ, your last post makes no sense -- for instance, I never claimed that all priesthoods were evangelical (as far as I can tell), and the issue of whether it's the gods or priesthoods that should be interesting is meaningless (the two should feed each other) -- so I won't go into it in any detail.

Conviction is Nostalgia poison
is death
Rip Van Wormer

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