Dealing with the Gods

Humanoid Smiths (was humanoid relations)

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:19:59 -0800
From: Marc Tizoc Gonzalez
Subject: Humanoid Smiths (was humanoid relations)

For this one, I'm focused on the materials or products of smithing.

Sander has made the point that:
>>>
One thing people often miss is that:
* you can get (low quality) iron from swamps
* once you know the basics, smelting is not high tech (but quality may suffer)
<<<

Is swamp iron also called pig iron? If the Jebli are smiths and if some tribes are no longer relegated to bronze, then while they smelt iron, they probably lack steel. Since small swamps are often present in forests (meadows, bogs, etc.), Jebli who are distant from the hills might still have a source for their smithing needs.

However I'm more interested in the Euroz and Ho-Jebline. Their weapons might never be of special or exceptional quality, but pragmatically are physically the equivalent to what humans make. However, the design of weapons should be limited, IMO.

By looking over the PH, MM, and the UA appendix, I'm working on a list of what orcs and hobgoblins make themselves, and what is beyond (most) tribes. The MM list for orcs includes axes, battleaxes, bows, crossbows, flails, polearms, spears, and swords. The hobgoblin list includes (composite) bows, morningstars, polearms, spears, swords, and whips. There is no change from 1st to 2nd editions. Also, the MC orc listing states the polearm types to typically include glaives, halberds, or pikes.

IMO, the broadsword is the type most commonly produced by orcs or hobgoblins. The composite bow reminds me of Tolkien's Uruk-hai; I have always assumed it to be a long bow. For the orcs, an interesting difference might be to have bow using orcs only use regular short bows, while some tribes make use of (traded) crossbows. The use of normal axes by orcs seems budget, but only ten percent of the creatures use it alone.
As for morningstar use, I assume that hobgoblins of the Horned Society do so with the knowledge that it is one of Hextor's favored weapons. Also, Horned Society hobgoblin soldiers most commonly use the military fork, as befits the devilish motif. The halberd is probably the most highly developed weapon design that the orcs have. I might relegate its production to the more successful tribes, however.

M:TG
:/

Weapons for Races & Countries

Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Weapons for Races & Countries
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:15:19 +0200
From: Patrice Forno
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List

Hello

-----Message d'origine-----

>On 7/3/99 8:03 PM, Nathanael D. Wentz (ndwentz@TELEBOT.NET) wrote
>
>>3) What are generally considered to be racial stereotyped weapons? I have:
>>human = N/A; dwur = battle-axe, warhammer; noniz = hand axe; hobniz =sling;
>>olves = bow. Anything else that comes to mind?
>

>From the various Monstrous Compendium entries (typical armor in parenthesis)
:
Alaghi : Stone knife, stone hand axe, wooden javelin
Aspis : Short sword, hand axe, crossbow, javelin (Shield)
Beastman : Spear, stone axe, stone knife, bolas, blowgun
Bugbear : Mace, hammer, spear
Centaur : Oaken club, Composite bow adaptis ` leur force, lance (Shield)
Chitine : Javelin, short sword (Studded)
Drider : Sword, axe, bow
Dwarf : Axe, hammer, sword, spear, crossbow, polearm, macce, military pick
(Chain, plate + shield)
Dwarf, derro : Secari (dagger), repetition crossbow, hook fauchard, hooked
aklys, spear, military pick, hand crossbow (Shield)
Elf, aquatic : Trident, spear, net
Elf, drow : Long dagger, short sword, hand crossbow, mace, javelin, darts (chain + shield)
Elf, Gray : Spear, sword, bow, two-handed sword (Chain + shield)
Elf, High : Spear, sword, bow, two-handed sword (Scale, ring, chain + shield)
Elf, Wood : Spear, sword, bow, two-handed sword (Studded, ring)
Fachan Club, flail, sword, axe
Firenewt : Military pick, sword, hand axe, battleaxe (Chain)
Flind : Club, Flindbaar
Giant, cloud : Gargantuan morning star
Giant, fire : Huge two-handed sword (Banded)
Giant, frost : Huge battleaxe (Chain)
Giant, hill : Huge club (hide = leather)
Giant, mountain : Huge club
Giant, stone : Huge stone club
Giant, storm : Gargantuan two-handed sword, Gargantuan composite bow (Bronze plate)
Giantkin, cyclopskin : Club, great axe
Giantkin, firebolg : Huge two-handed sword, Huge halberd
Giantkin, fomorian : Huge weapon
Giantkin, spriggan : Polearm, sword, mace, dagger
Giantkin, verbeeg : Spear + autres
Giantkin, voadkyn : Two-handed sword, longbow (Leather, ring)
Gnoll : Sword, polearm, battleaxe, bow, morning star
Gnome : Club, warhammer, short sword, spear, short bow, crossbow, sling, dagger, hand axe, military pick (studded leather, chain, plate + shield)
Gnomes, deep (Svirfneblin) : Military pick (horseman s), dagger, dart (Chain, ring, scale)
Goblin : Spear, mace, short sword (studded leather, chain, plate + shield)
Grung : Bow, spear
Halfling, Hairfoot : Sling, bow, short sword, hand axe (Padded, Leather, Chain + Shield)
Halfling, Stout : Sling, bow, short sword, hand axe, hammer, morning star (Padded, Leather, Chain + Shield)
Halfling, Tallfellow : Sling, bow, short sword, hand axe, spear (Padded, Leather, Chain + Shield)
Hobgoblin : Polearm, morning star, sword, bow, spear, whip
Kenku : Quarterstaff
Kobold : Javelin, spear, spiked club, hand axe, short sword
Kuo-Toa : Dagger, spear, harpoon, net, mancatcher (Shield)
Lizardmen, advanced : Barbed dart, javelin, club, captured sword (Shield)
Locathah : Lance, crossbow, trident, short sword
Merman : Trident, dagger, crossbow, javelin
Norker : Club
Ogre : Club, spear
Orc : Sword, flail, spear, axe, battleaxe, crossbow, bow, polearm (pikes) (Studded leather + shield)
Sahuagin : Spear, dagger, trident, net, heavy crossbow
Sha az : Spear, sword, net, bow (Shield)
Taer : Stone spear
Tasloi : Javelin, club, short sword, net, lasso (Shield)
Tlincalli : Bolas
Tren : Short sword (Shield)
Triton : Trident, long spear, heavy crossbow (Scale)
Troglodyte : Sword, stone battleaxe, stone morning star, troglodyte javelin
Troll, giant : Huge club
Wemic : Javelin, Stone club, short sword (Shield)

For the Human :
>From the GH83 Boxed Set : Weapon / country :

Pays Armes utilisies dans l armie
Aerdy : Crossbow, bow, polearms
Almor : Crossbow, longbow ,spear, Battleaxe, Polearms (fauchard, glaive),
Bissel : Lance, crossbow, pike, fauchard-fork, flail, sword
Blackmoor : Sling, short bow, spear
Geoff : Bow, Pike
Gran March : Lance, crossbow, sword
Greyhawk City : Long sword, broad sword, halberd, pike, composite longbow, crossbow, axe
Highfolk : Longbow
Irongate City : Spetum, glaive-guisarme, crossbow
Keoland : Javelin, crossbow, lance, polearm, longspear
Ket : Pike, crossbow, bow, lance
Paynims : Short bow, short sword, light lance, mace, flail
Perrenland : Pike, polearm, crossbow,battleaxe, flail, bow, bow
Ratik : Spear, crossbow, bow, sling
Rel Astra : Crossbow
Rovers of the barrens : Lance, javelin, bow, lariat (lasso)
Sterich : Sword
Sunndi : Sling, morning star, crossbow, bardiche
Tenh : Short bow, polearm
Tiger Nomads : Short bow, lance
Ulek, Duchy : Crossbow, bill, bow
Ull : Huge bow, strange polearm, great mace
Veluna : Pike, bow
Yeomanry : Spear, crossbow, polearm, sling, bow
Zeif : Two-handed sword

I'm interested in whatever additions you may have to these lists. Please,
mention the canon reference if any.

Regards

_________________________________________________
Patrice Forno - Marseille - France
froon@pacwan.fr
Liste de diffusion sur Greyhawk (taerre@netultra.net)

Thin Greyhawk Page : http://perso.pacwan.fr/froon/GH/FrGRey.htm
French WiF Page : http://perso.pacwan.fr/froon/WiF/wif.htm

The Passage to Manhood - long

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 99 14:48PM PDT
From: "Brian A. Murphy" Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] The Passage to Manhood - long

When one of the players characters was killed in the Abyss by the HrathnirDemon, he started a new character from Maldev. The character's name was Feather and he was a barbarian from the mountains around Kandelspire. Given the nature of Maldev's plight, I thought it quite reasonable when the player wanted to play a CN character.

Once the party re-entered the Abyss after defeating Lolth's armies at Kandelspire, the character returned with the rest of the party to Oerth. The problem was, he was 8th level and still needed to be trained by someone. Talking with Jontash about the probable location of Barbarian tribes that would be compatible with him (CN) he was directed towards the east coast, where he encountered the Tribe of Strong Spirits.

This is one of the smaller tribes that had joined the rest of the barbarian hordes in decimating Ratik (IMC they don't get along and have been trying to take the more fertile, lower lands for centuries). When Feather came upon them, they had lands in and around the border of Ratik and the Bone March. There is a real hot-zone between old Ratik and the Bone March, mainly due to the Barbarians.

At any rate, he needed to become a member of the tribe in order to train, and I had to write up something to explain why (and how) they let him into the tribe.

The following then, is what I came up with to explain the tribal adoption.
=======================================
The Passage to Manhood
Excerpted from:
Observations on the Primitives in the Barbarian Reaches
Kynle Saru
Anthropological Humanologist
College of Greyhawk
=======================================
The Passage to Manhood within the Tribe of Strong Spirits consists of seven stages:

The first step, named by the tribe as the Learning of Honor (a rather blatant misnomer in my book), is a rather twisted period for the initiate wherein the Elders of the tribe attempt to humiliate and demean the applicant, confusing him with contradictory and unpredictable commands and edicts.

The novice is the runner, gopher, servant and slave to everyone with the coveted second name in the tribe. The prospect is addressed in various uncomplimentary ways, from "Scum-licker: to :Schmegma-breath" and is expected to not only acknowledge and even thank the elder for the accurate observation of character, but must perform whatever despicable service the Elder requires at the time. From ditch digging to hunting to -----shoveling, no task is too low for the manling.

It is expected that the apprentice gains some higher meaning from this abuse, although this researcher has been unable to determine what beneficial effect this has on the prospective warrior other than to perpetuate the unpredictability of the tribe.

The second stage of the Passage is the Testing of Honor. If the manling survives the Learning (many don't), there is a rigorous ceremony centered on the adolescent. He is placed in the center of the tribal circle and all Elders (male, of course) begin by imbuing him with "The Essence and Wisdom of the Elders" (they urinate all over him). Then, he is made to stomp around inside the circle and amongst the steaming coals of the tribal fire, that all present may be aware of his level of wisdom. Apparently, the more powerful the aroma, the more he has learned.

Drinking of the Blood of the Tribe (a strong concoction brewed by the Shaman), the novice's eyes are opened to the Spirit World. He is then instructed to go out across the Lands of Death and bring back his Adult Spirit.

The novice then, under the light of the full moon, leaves the circle and runs into the night. This begins the third stage, called the Search of the Spirit. Howling and screeching to terrify the spirits of the tribe's dead enemies, the apprentice sheds all coverings and tools, to show the Earth Mother that ne needs nothing other than the Wisdom of the Tribe to survive her torment. Then, prior to first light, he must track down a wild creature and bring it to the Shaman alive in his arms. (Given the extreme hallucinogenic and anesthetic effects of the Blood of the Tribe, I have been unable to judge the veracity of any tales told of the Search by the Elders. A common thread appears to be dangerous spirit enemies intent on enslaving and eating the hunter.)

It should be noted that many of those who survived the Learning fail the Search and never return to the tribe. Although tribal members take this to be a sign of unworthiness, the reality may be something else entirely. While the tribe claims much of the surrounding territory as its own, there are many wild areas nearby, in "claimed" lands. Many dangerous denizens inhabit the area including trolls, lamias, displacer beasts and the occasional owl bear. Despite tribal claims that "no creature would be stupid enough to challenge our might," it should be noted that the Testing is one of the few times that a tribal member travels in open lands alone.

When the apprentice returns, bleeding and broken into the circle, the Shaman takes the animal from the novice. At this point, the apprentice is draped to the Women's Circle for the Test of Vitality, the fourth stage of the Passage. (This researcher has not borne witness to this test, but, in seeing the preparations, I shudder to think of its' implications. Ropes, feathers, stones tied together and oddly shaped sticks of wood are all laid out amongst a large bed of leaves. Various oils and liniments are also present, their use unknown. It wasn't the items themselves that disturbed me so; it was the suggestive gestures and odd looks on the part of the women when they noticed me observing them that caused me to beat a hasty retreat...)

At first light on the following day, after the novice returns from the Women's Circle -- if he returns, I noted that some young men ran kicking and wailing back to the whelps' huts -- he begins the fifth stage, the Claiming of Title. Otherwise known as The Telling, this period in the ritual seems to center on braggery and exaggeration, as the tales told rarely resemble probable circumstances. The initiate tells of his exploits, in the Hunt, in Battle, and in any other endeavor he feels can
increase his appearance to the tribe. I have heard many detailed accounts of applicants' slaying gigantic monsters with nothing but grass blades, toe-nails and even belly-lint! Tales of novices overcoming their enemies with nothing but the wisdom of the tribe (they seem to have a thing for aromatic attacks) and even exploits with women which seem physically impossible.

Once complete, the novice is then blindfolded, gagged and bound. Placed in a hole, he is then buried near the tribal graveyard to await the sixth stage of the Passage, the Decision of the Elders. This too, is a difficult time for the initiate, as the Elders must decide the validity of the novice's claims. Many times I have seen a prospect reach this step only to fail, not because the Elders decided against him, but because their decision was too late in coming.

Usually, as long as the Elders do not forget about the novice they will eventually decide to name him. Finally, after the novice is dug up and revived, the Elders then bestow the Tribal Name on the new adult. This name, while ostensibly a result of The
Telling, sometimes is the result of the Elders latching onto one facet of the tale found most memorable and expounding upon it. It should be noted that this tends to be something the Elders by consensus find amusing and derogatory to the apprentice. The end result appears to depend on a multitude of factors: the entertainment value of the tale, how well the initiate is looked upon by the Elders, the probability that the novice could be telling the truth, the whispers of the womenfolk and (probably most importantly), the ratio of hung-over to still-intoxicated Elders still conscious at the naming.
===================================================

The Learning of Honor -- You hung in there and did whatever was asked!

The Search of the Spirit -- You returned with a wild boar.

The Testing of Vitality -- You awoke in the morning staked naked to the ground. The tribal women were all around you and seemed very pleased and strangely content?!?!?!?!

The Telling -- You described your tale of other worlds and Demon Queens, death and destruction, (completely true, who needs to embellish that wild of a story?) but they didn't buy it. In fact, they kept interrupting and cracking jokes, mostly centered on how well your skull "served" you (side note: The character had taken a goblin's skull and stuck it on one of his armor's shoulder spikes as kind of a warped second head. He was quite proud of it). You didn't get the joke, but they found it extremely amusing.

The Naming -- After waking up coughing dirt (and having strange dreams to boot), you are brought back to the center of the Elders. Bleary eyed and cringing in the light of the sun, the Chieftain and other look upon you and bestow your name:

Feather Skull-Humper

And you are accepted into the tribe!

You train and are at the next level, ready to return to Hillville.

Brian A. Murphy, MCP
Eikon Consulting Services
http://www.eikoncs.com