Showing posts with label Prelacy of Almor. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Prelacy of Almor. Show all posts
Monday, February 23, 2015
Sunday, November 27, 2011
Re: [GREYTALK] GH WARS
Subj: Re: [GREYTALK] GH WARS
Date: 98-08-04 17:07:18 EDT
From: froon@HOL.FR (Patric Forno)
Sender: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
Reply-to: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Hello Jason, Roger and the list,
-- Message d’origine –
>If you’d like to discuss the events of the Greyhawk Wars with someone and
>work on it as a team, I’d certainly be willing to bounce ideas back and
>forth with you. In particular, I’m very interested in the chronology of the
>Fall of the Sea Princes for my _Saga of Saltmarsh_.
>
Jason, I wanted to answer you privately, but I thought I might get helped better if I mailed the whole GH community. After all, GH is there for this purpose !
I also mailed this to Roger Moore, because I suspect him of having want I want (an Official GH WARS Timeline).
Sorry, nothing on the Sea Princes from me (there is close to nothing concerning dates in the official material).
I have an enormous problem with the GH WARS : I think the wars lasted from 582 to 585, and it is very confusing for me.
The reason for the confusion is the following :
-Goodmonth 584 : Aerdy nuked Almor & Chathold (WARS, 19 Ivid the Undying). The Month of Goodmonth is written in one of those sources, certainly WARS. It must be 584 because the raid from Osson must be in 583 (cannot be in 582 because the whole Vatun affair started in the fall of 582), and Osson is said to “winter” in the Medegia IIRC, with Ivid’s army on the other side of the border, waiting him. So it seems that the crushing of Almor was next year (so 584).
-Later it is told that Ivid V took the leadership of his armies, thinking the Almorian success was due to his strategic skills. He then entered Nyrond and is repelled. He is said to command from Rauxes, using spells and device, and this is a disaster. [IMO, TSR assumes this to happen in the fall of 584 (though this is written anywhere)].
-Then we learn that Ivid is slain during Richfest (not told which year) (WARS,21). As the story is told it is meant to be after the fall of Almor. But Richfest is BEFORE Goodmonth, so the assassination of Ivid V must be in Richfest 585 !!!
So the meeting at Greyhawk must be in Harvester 585, not 584 and the Day of the Great Signing must be in Coldeven 586, not 585. What a mess….
I can’t believe what I’ve just written, and I think it is false, but I would like to know WHERE it is false.
Maybe it is the fall of Almor who is in Goodmonth 583, and not 584 ? I don’t know, and all this WARS affair begins to get me mad !!!!
That’s why I would like to have an OFFICIAL Timeline for the WARS, and I don’t even ask for a monthly one (it would be good anyway), just an EXACT yearly one would suffice !!!!
I don’t ask for a telling of the WARS as the one in the WARS Boxed Set, I would like to see a TIMELINE. I was very confused by the telling of the whole story in the WARS Boxed Set, and even more confused with all errors that slipped in WGR4 and WGR5 about the WARS. For example, WGR5 p 4 tells that the breaking of Chendl’s siege was in Fall 584, but I can’t believe that Chendl has been besieged for a full year (the siege began in 583, isn’t it ?).
I hope Roger has one.
Regards
--------------
Patrice Forno – Marseille – France
froon@hol.fr
Les Fauconniers Gris (ggf@rmm.fr)
Liste de diffusion sur Greyhawk (Oerth@rmm.fr)
Thin Greyhawk Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/GH/FrGRey.htm
French WiF Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/WiF/wif.htm
Jacques Villeneuve Champion du Monde avec B.A.R. !!!
Go Jacques Go !!!
Date: 98-08-04 17:07:18 EDT
From: froon@HOL.FR (Patric Forno)
Sender: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
Reply-to: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Hello Jason, Roger and the list,
-- Message d’origine –
>If you’d like to discuss the events of the Greyhawk Wars with someone and
>work on it as a team, I’d certainly be willing to bounce ideas back and
>forth with you. In particular, I’m very interested in the chronology of the
>Fall of the Sea Princes for my _Saga of Saltmarsh_.
>
Jason, I wanted to answer you privately, but I thought I might get helped better if I mailed the whole GH community. After all, GH is there for this purpose !
I also mailed this to Roger Moore, because I suspect him of having want I want (an Official GH WARS Timeline).
Sorry, nothing on the Sea Princes from me (there is close to nothing concerning dates in the official material).
I have an enormous problem with the GH WARS : I think the wars lasted from 582 to 585, and it is very confusing for me.
The reason for the confusion is the following :
-Goodmonth 584 : Aerdy nuked Almor & Chathold (WARS, 19 Ivid the Undying). The Month of Goodmonth is written in one of those sources, certainly WARS. It must be 584 because the raid from Osson must be in 583 (cannot be in 582 because the whole Vatun affair started in the fall of 582), and Osson is said to “winter” in the Medegia IIRC, with Ivid’s army on the other side of the border, waiting him. So it seems that the crushing of Almor was next year (so 584).
-Later it is told that Ivid V took the leadership of his armies, thinking the Almorian success was due to his strategic skills. He then entered Nyrond and is repelled. He is said to command from Rauxes, using spells and device, and this is a disaster. [IMO, TSR assumes this to happen in the fall of 584 (though this is written anywhere)].
-Then we learn that Ivid is slain during Richfest (not told which year) (WARS,21). As the story is told it is meant to be after the fall of Almor. But Richfest is BEFORE Goodmonth, so the assassination of Ivid V must be in Richfest 585 !!!
So the meeting at Greyhawk must be in Harvester 585, not 584 and the Day of the Great Signing must be in Coldeven 586, not 585. What a mess….
I can’t believe what I’ve just written, and I think it is false, but I would like to know WHERE it is false.
Maybe it is the fall of Almor who is in Goodmonth 583, and not 584 ? I don’t know, and all this WARS affair begins to get me mad !!!!
That’s why I would like to have an OFFICIAL Timeline for the WARS, and I don’t even ask for a monthly one (it would be good anyway), just an EXACT yearly one would suffice !!!!
I don’t ask for a telling of the WARS as the one in the WARS Boxed Set, I would like to see a TIMELINE. I was very confused by the telling of the whole story in the WARS Boxed Set, and even more confused with all errors that slipped in WGR4 and WGR5 about the WARS. For example, WGR5 p 4 tells that the breaking of Chendl’s siege was in Fall 584, but I can’t believe that Chendl has been besieged for a full year (the siege began in 583, isn’t it ?).
I hope Roger has one.
Regards
--------------
Patrice Forno – Marseille – France
froon@hol.fr
Les Fauconniers Gris (ggf@rmm.fr)
Liste de diffusion sur Greyhawk (Oerth@rmm.fr)
Thin Greyhawk Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/GH/FrGRey.htm
French WiF Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/WiF/wif.htm
Jacques Villeneuve Champion du Monde avec B.A.R. !!!
Go Jacques Go !!!
Friday, November 7, 2008
Almor's Faith
Subject: [GREYTALK] Almor's Faith
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:15:08 EST
From: "Rip Van Wormer"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
The subject of just who was primarily worshipped in the prelacy of Almor was never properly resolved in what I could find in the Greytalk Archives. Apparently, EGG has said Heironeous, which doesn't make much sense given the nation's alignment.
It's a NG, CG, N country.
OS in composition.
Surrounded by primarily Oeridian nations.
Pelor is an obvious choice for the nation's alignment, since we can count on him to be sympathetic to CGs and Ns, but the fact that the land has no Flan component casts doubt on this. Granted, Pelor is a common deity, and many non-Flannae revere him, but with the Heroneoi of Nyrond at one side and the Hextoi and Zilchists on the other, I'm not sure that he's appropriate as a major faith.
The issue of the sun in the Prelacy's coat of arms has to be dismissed as a coincidence, I believe. I can't imagine that such an adamantly pro-Oeridian nation as Aerdy could have esteemed Pelor to such an extent as to put him in their coat of arms, and of course Pelor didn't have a symbol as of 1983. Instead, this symbol refers to the rising of the Great Kingdom's might over the Solnor Ocean, and is countered by Furyon/Voll's moon/antler symbol. The priests of Pelor might actually bear a grudge against Aerdy for appropriating their holiest of designs. The origin might involve something like the Oerid armies seizing a relic of the northern Flannae that symbolized leadership to that people, and taking it as their own symbol. The descendents of the ancient ruling house in Tenh (the Wi) probably seek this thing's
return, though it has likely been lost, either during a change of dynasties or amid the general clutter of the old treasuries in Rauxes (or used as payment to finance some war; it might be in Perrenland, a prized trophy of the mercenary-houses).
Anyway, the cult of the Wind seems a likely ingrediant in Almor's religious stew, with the Oeridian cultural domination and alignment. Wind Priests don't, however, seem very *political* to me. Thus, while they might be an element of Almor's state religion, they probably don't define it. Of the old Suel gods, only those of proper alignment would have survived Aerdi persecution: Kord, Lydia, Norebo, Osprem, Phaulkon, Phyton. None of them have enough constituency in the region to dominate the nation.
Anyway, this is what I think:
Kevont is a pantheonist priest of the Church of Almor. The pantheon is lead by Cyndor, Lord of Time and Infinity, and contains the god of the winds (Phaulkon and Velnius) and the seasons (Atroa, Wenta, Velnius, and Sotillion), as well as the gods of travel (Fharlanghn and Celestian) and of celestial bodies (Pelor, Lydia and Beory; worship of the moons is heretical). Procan and Osprem also receive reverence, perhaps as relatives. No one prays to Cyndor directly; the other gods are used as intermediaries. The other local gods are revered outside the church structure.
When the Great Kingdom conquered/conquers Almor, the church is driven underground, and moves its base to Nyrond. Some of the old temples reopen after the animus-Duke flees and Nyrond assumes control of the land.
There's also the question of what "Nyr Dyv" means, and how it connects with Dyvers and Nyrond.
Perhaps "Nyr" represents an unknown quantity, and was given to the mostly unexplored western extreme of the Great Kingdom during its early height, including Nyrond, Ulek, the Shield Lands, Perrenland and the Domain of Greyhawk. "Nyr Dyv" simply means The Lake of Nyrond. As most of this land was lost, it came to refer to the lands remaining.
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:15:08 EST
From: "Rip Van Wormer"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
The subject of just who was primarily worshipped in the prelacy of Almor was never properly resolved in what I could find in the Greytalk Archives. Apparently, EGG has said Heironeous, which doesn't make much sense given the nation's alignment.
It's a NG, CG, N country.
OS in composition.
Surrounded by primarily Oeridian nations.
Pelor is an obvious choice for the nation's alignment, since we can count on him to be sympathetic to CGs and Ns, but the fact that the land has no Flan component casts doubt on this. Granted, Pelor is a common deity, and many non-Flannae revere him, but with the Heroneoi of Nyrond at one side and the Hextoi and Zilchists on the other, I'm not sure that he's appropriate as a major faith.
The issue of the sun in the Prelacy's coat of arms has to be dismissed as a coincidence, I believe. I can't imagine that such an adamantly pro-Oeridian nation as Aerdy could have esteemed Pelor to such an extent as to put him in their coat of arms, and of course Pelor didn't have a symbol as of 1983. Instead, this symbol refers to the rising of the Great Kingdom's might over the Solnor Ocean, and is countered by Furyon/Voll's moon/antler symbol. The priests of Pelor might actually bear a grudge against Aerdy for appropriating their holiest of designs. The origin might involve something like the Oerid armies seizing a relic of the northern Flannae that symbolized leadership to that people, and taking it as their own symbol. The descendents of the ancient ruling house in Tenh (the Wi) probably seek this thing's
return, though it has likely been lost, either during a change of dynasties or amid the general clutter of the old treasuries in Rauxes (or used as payment to finance some war; it might be in Perrenland, a prized trophy of the mercenary-houses).
Anyway, the cult of the Wind seems a likely ingrediant in Almor's religious stew, with the Oeridian cultural domination and alignment. Wind Priests don't, however, seem very *political* to me. Thus, while they might be an element of Almor's state religion, they probably don't define it. Of the old Suel gods, only those of proper alignment would have survived Aerdi persecution: Kord, Lydia, Norebo, Osprem, Phaulkon, Phyton. None of them have enough constituency in the region to dominate the nation.
Anyway, this is what I think:
Kevont is a pantheonist priest of the Church of Almor. The pantheon is lead by Cyndor, Lord of Time and Infinity, and contains the god of the winds (Phaulkon and Velnius) and the seasons (Atroa, Wenta, Velnius, and Sotillion), as well as the gods of travel (Fharlanghn and Celestian) and of celestial bodies (Pelor, Lydia and Beory; worship of the moons is heretical). Procan and Osprem also receive reverence, perhaps as relatives. No one prays to Cyndor directly; the other gods are used as intermediaries. The other local gods are revered outside the church structure.
When the Great Kingdom conquered/conquers Almor, the church is driven underground, and moves its base to Nyrond. Some of the old temples reopen after the animus-Duke flees and Nyrond assumes control of the land.
There's also the question of what "Nyr Dyv" means, and how it connects with Dyvers and Nyrond.
Perhaps "Nyr" represents an unknown quantity, and was given to the mostly unexplored western extreme of the Great Kingdom during its early height, including Nyrond, Ulek, the Shield Lands, Perrenland and the Domain of Greyhawk. "Nyr Dyv" simply means The Lake of Nyrond. As most of this land was lost, it came to refer to the lands remaining.
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