Various

Date sent: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 23:11:19 -0500
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Otto Zequeira 2
Subject: [GREYTALK][GT] Various
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Humanoid origins, Vatun: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:40:12 CST, SCOTT CASPER wrote, “”What if, way back after the Invoked Devastation, the hordelings didn't leave right away. Recent postings have argued about whether summoning has a time limit. What if the hordelings stayed, molested the Oerdians, and the product of these hordeling-human unions gradually produced the orcs, trolls, and kobolds we all know (and love) today?”

The problem with this idea is that the Invoked Devastation reference comes after the description of humanoids as troops. A good idea, though.

“Secondly, this occurred to me at about the same time. What if the Vatun disguise of Iuz's was not Iuz's idea? A lot of gods were probably happy with his incarceration under Castle Greyhawk. What if they schemed to check the demi-god again? Zagyg, Cuthbert, and maybe some other lesser gods or quasi-deities kidnapped Iuz, forced amnesia on him, and told him he was the lost god Vatun? They got the Suel gods to go along with this, and that is why divination never revealed the Vatun deception.

Now we know why Iuz is so bitter. Imagine, a hunk like him getting stuck in the body of 'Ken'.

Greyspace: On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:20:33 +1300, rodking wrote, “I have a particular dislike of Spelljamming in the context of Greyhawk although it is an enjoyable game in its own right. The problems are these: 1) Its a huge departure from the sense of Greyhawk being a distinct Plane of existence in its own right. Now its just a bubble in an endless sea.”

I personally like the idea of limiting exit and entry into the sphere to only the most powerful mages, e.g. Zagyg. This maintains the feel of an isolated WoG.

Official artifacts: On Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:41:31 -0300, Bruno Di Pentima asked,
>For example, doesn't the City of Greyhawk have the proverbial “Sword of
>Damocles” hanging over it with a certain personage of the Outer Planes
>vowing vengeance against the place and it's former master for entrapping it
>and the theft of a potent device dear to it? Could it not be said by some
>that the City was both blessed and ultimately doomed by the legacy of
Zagyg?
I didn't knew that (I am a little inexperienced in Greyhawk) Where did you got that?? From City of Greyhawk boxed set?

The poster was referring to Iuz and his imprisonment under Castle Greyhawk by Zagyg as detailed in several places. I think some of this info. Is in the FAQ.

What's up with Greyhawk98?. On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:19:06 -0500, AOL KenNewq asked, “I've been away from the list for a while, so I'm not quite sure where these assorted Greyhawk98 posts are originating. Is Greyhawk98 (I'm assuming this is a proposed product line) actually going to happen, or is it wishful thinking?”

It's the best of wishful thinking...

Druids: On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17L14L35 -0600, Victor Gonzalez asked, “I feel silly asking this question but last night my DM try to argue that, per the rules, druids do not have to be true neutral, just neutral in some aspect. And when we looked it up in the PH is did say just neutral, not true neutral. Has they're been an official change or is my DM being to picky in looking for the exact wording of true neutral?”

Yes, he's being picky. I personally enjoy the view that druids are just as vicious sons of Iggwilfs as anybody else.

GH Wars: Here's a little something that I put together, in case it's helpful.

Wars Calendar
Year Month Event
582-----------Rise of Stonefist
--------------The Fall of Tenh
583-----------Iuz returns to his homeland
------3-------Blood Moon Festival
--------------Martyrs of the Holy Shielding
--------------Stroke & Counter Stroke
------7-------Furyondy Besieged
--------------Great Kingdom Awakens
--------------Osson's Raid
--------------Lordship of the Isles Coup
583—winter----Aid from the South
----spring----An Empire Where None Had Stood
584---8-------Conquest of Almor
--------------Horsemen of Ket
--------------Giant Troubles
--------------Mad King Takes the Field
--------------Sea Princes Assassinated
--------------Collapse of Ide & Onnwall
--------------Hool Invasion
--------------Blockade of Gradsul
-------9------Aerdy Sundered
--------------Great Council of Greyhawk
585---2-------Day of the Great Signing
--------------Elves reclaim Lendor Isle?

My absense, humanoid origins, Vatun, and cow

Priority: normal
Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:40:12 CST
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: SCOTT CASPER
Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL
Subject: [GREYTALK] My absense, humanoid origins, Vatun, and cow
Originally to: greytalk@MIT.EDU
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Yes! I'm finally back! For those of you who didn't notice, I've been gone for a month. For the first week, I was working on mid-terms. The second week I was catching up with the first week. Since then, something was wrong with my e-mail and I wasn't able to send anything no matter what I did. I owe one or two personal e-mails I intend to get to in the next few days. Of course, there are those among you who, for bizarre reasons, found my guns and plumbing threads boring and probably wished I'd stay silent. Well, to that I say – TOUGH!

Since I've been sitting here quietly for the past month unable to comment, I'm way behind on all the current threads. I intend to throw my opinions once more into the cyber-wind soon enough, but for now I thought I'd just share some musings I've had. These ideas are way out there, and I'm not even sure I'll be using them yet. Still, I wanted to share them and see what people thought.

First off, my idea about humanoid origins was this. What if, way back after the Invoked Devastation, the hordelings didn't leave right away. Recent postings have argued about whether summoning has a time limit. What if the hordelings stayed, molested the Oerdians, and the product of these hordeling-human unions gradually produced the orcs, trolls, and kobolds we all know (and love) today?

Secondly, this occurred to me at about the same time. What if the Vatun disguise of Iuz's was not Iuz's idea? A lot of gods were probably happy with his incarceration under Castle Greyhawk. What if they schemed to check the demi-god again? Zagyg, Cuthbert, and maybe some other lesser gods or quasi-deities kidnapped Iuz, forced amnesia on him, and told him he was the lost god Vatun? They got the Suel gods to go along with this, and that is why divination never revealed the Vatun deception.

There is one other thing I could use comments on. I am still working on my Monster Manual revisions (to the exclusion of far too much), and I just recently got to my Cattle entry. Has anyone given any thought to what breeds of cow may be found in the Flanaess? Can someone from Europe give me some names of European breeds of cow?

So far, I have developed three varieties of cow. There is the common (2 HD) Flannish cow. There is the smaller (1 HD) Kettish (or elven) cow which is considered excellent livestock. Then there is the Ideish cow (3 HD) which is strong enough to pull wagons, plows, and can even be rode like a mount (borrowed from the comicbook BONE). Is “Ideish” the word you would use to describe something from Idee?

Scott “Volstagg” Casper
Have fun in Brazil, Erik! Never mind that you've left me with one less Call of Cthulu player!

Elves & Birthright ideas - Dreadwood

Subject: [GREYTALK] Elves & Birthright ideas - Dreadwood
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:36:55 +1000
From: Cos & Melissa Marendy
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List

Greetings fellow list members

Recently I was conducting a email chat about the Elves of Dreadwood with a learned Greyhawker. He asked but how I used Birtright in my alternative Oerth. I find Birthright rules can be used to explain the powers/ablities of a race (Elvish)under threat. With some modification, game balance can be kept. Game balance is the key to adaption of the Birthright rules for greyhawk - you must have a reason for why it is not wide spread as in the birtheight campaign setting. Anyway I have enjoyed so many great ideas over the years from this list, I though maybe it was time to contribute my ideas from my campaign. I know these ideas certainly will not be agreeble with
all the list members - but thats what makes this open list great - constructive and co-operative input. Anyway here is my rationale for using Birthright ideas in Greyhawk, also bear in mind that my game is centred in the Dreadwood area of southern Keoland, hence the reference to the specific site in my rationale.

My (rough) Rationale

My adaption is based on nature itself being a force like a Diety except unaware of its effect on the multiverse. Nature is divided among the elements and motive forces such as good, evil, chaos and law. Each motive force and nature element has special effects on the environment. This explains the multiverse setup as per 'Manual of the Planes', and how the prime material planes represent a mix of all - hence the terms PRIME & MATERIAL. Since all the elements are present on the prime planes, the
locals call this nature. Truely observant or ancient races become aware of the mix called nature and tap into 'the current'. Those who do tend to tap the 'whole current' with the complete mix of motive powers and the elements which lead to a balanced or neutral belief about what is nature.

Occasionally, these same races are able to isolated the individual mini currents of just earth or air or evil etc... This is more raw source of the multiverse, but unbalanced without the rest to balance it. Great powers are usable but just like science this throws 'nature' into inbalance. The Elves of Dreadwood can tap the balanced 'current'. Some of the Elves have tapped just one element such as good, leading to a inbalance which will take centuries to correct - hence the fading land. These Elves are considered rogues, by their kin despite any good intensions, as it inbalances the 'nature' of the multiverse. Among the Elves, only those of royal or noble blood can harness these powers of the multiverse. Ramdomly, new noble
houses can be birthed into the current whilst others lose their access - hence a balance is maintain. A Elf who has access can transfer all his/her access using cermonies of oerthsap. THe access can also be stolen, resulting in the death of the victim. What ever type of access the individal has is transfered to his/her offspring or recieptant. The Elves claim they are only true holders of this power.

In my campaign I have left this elf only claim open - maybe Dragons have access? Humans also have access, but only by accident of 'nature'. The suel-Baklunish war with twin destructions of a scale unmatched, rocked the 'current' with vast release of earthsap which is found in all living and unliving material. This release normally controlled with the typical death of one creature, leading to the birth of another was not able to be achieved. The current, some of it balanced, most of it not enhanced surviours of the holocaust, it its attempt to maintain balance. Suel and
Baklunish fell upon each other using terriable powers unheard of except in the most terrorifying nightmares of Elven Noblity & Royality. Some Suel humans realised the danger of the sitiuation and fed eastward, and became the Silent Brothers (mentioned in OJs). They sought to contain misuse, and destroy those who sought to upset the balance. The Baklunish too have formed their own very secret order to maintain the balance. Hence in my campaign, current wielding morals are secretive, and avoid actively annoucing their 'birthgift' The Elves of course continue to use it in
moderation except for the rogues who are hunted or exiled. Some of the inbalance remains hence the sea of dust, while some 'creatures?' were so embraced by the 'current' that they are but a shadow of their moral form. THese 'spawn' (as called by the Elves) generally represent the motive power of 'evil'. I have one loose in Dreadwood, hence another reason why the Elves are kept busy.

Regardless what type of current the individual taps, all need the enviroment. The more natural the enviroment, the greater the power of the current can be accessed by the individual. A untouched ancient forest would give more power than a city on a plain with a long history of occupation. (this direct steal from Birthright rules) Ley lines can be 'forged' from such sites to less enhanced sites. eg Elven Lord on the plains south of Dreadwood forges a Leyline from a ancient grove of trees in the heart of Elven terriory. The further away, the harder it is to make the current flow
into useful sources of oerthsap. A individual is also measured by how musch he/she can access. The Queen of Celene's line would be truely powerful compared to a local Elf Lord in Ulek. This measure of the current can improve, by wisely using it or theft of a greater individuals access, using the procedure of saptheft.

Well this is a rough of the why and who. If you like, I'll send next time the powers and how. Please forgive the typos...

regards
Cos.