Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 19:14:21 -0700
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: “C. Jarvis” cjarvis@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] The Duchy of Tenh (Scottish rite)
In response to Scott’s muchly deserved flaming of my posterior over the “You’re not Scot Mr. Jarvis” discussion of the Tenha:
---Ouch, that really hurt. But I must concede, Mr. Rennie, you would certainly know better than I. I must insist that I meant not to slight or insult with my missive.
----Okay, there are only extraordinarie Scots. I’m in the SCA, and there you cannot swing a stick without hitting a Scot. Or a Celt. Or a Norse for that matter…
>Oh yeah! Where in Scotland do you live – maybe we could meet up sometime?
---I am (or might be) related to any of several dead (ex-) Scots, Irish, Welsh, Brits, Dutch & the odd German (Quaker). I have not had the pleasure or oppurtunity to make my way to Scotland (yet); but I did float past it… I live in Seattle, which only shares a certain turn of weather with Scotland.
>Why? What are ‘the Scottish’ like?
---I imagine they are somewhat sensitive of any slights to their heritage. Any categorizations I would make would fall short of the entirety…
>The Scots tartans (not ‘plaid’ – a plaid is the name of the garment which t
>kilt originated from, not the pattern) were not originally so colorful as
>they once are, since old dyes tended to be made from natural sources.
---You know what a tartan is. I know what a tartan is. Under “Racial & National Dress” from WoG Gazeteer vol 3:
Oerdians typically favor checks and plaids. Aerdi and Nyrondal houses tend to wear plaids, while the southern and western Oeridians favor checks, often of a diamond pattern or similar variation from the standard square. Clothing tends toward tight-legged trousers, close-fitting upper garments, and capes or cloaks.
When I read this back in 1983 and was looking to find a flavor for the Oerdians it hit me that I could use an analog to the peoples of the British Isles. Considering that one of the major deities of the Oerdians is Procan, it supported the fact that they were sea-farers, or at least from a place by the sea (not south west of the Paynims & Ull).
>Also, the ’83 set states the ‘Flannae once wore brightly-hued body paints.’
>The name ‘Scot’ means ‘painted warrior’, taken from the old (ie pre-Roman)
>Scots habit of covering their entire bodies in (usually blue) war paint, so
>that even if they lost their clothes in battle they would not be naked.
----Are you a Wode-Warrior sir? Lots of peoples still wear or worn brightly-hued body paints. The ’83 says nothing of the Flani going into battle ‘sky-clad’.
---No a brogue. I think this is an American thing. Every player I know gives his character an outrageous accent (done very badly). I have seen individuals from the region in question visibly wince upon hearing such absurd utterances. I don’t know why we do it…
>>Zilchus is very Scottish.
>I see – the ‘Scots as a bunch of tight-fisted money-grubbing skinflints
---joke, joke. I didn’t mean it. I take it back. Sorry, sorry.
>>And you really can’t say “Fharlanghn” without a slight lilt and
>>rolling your r’s.
>Well, I certainly can’t – but to be honest it sounds more Welsh to me, which
>brings me on to…
>>The double ‘l’ in Delleb becomes Welsh, and you are good to go.
>Good to go where? Wales maybe. The Welsh have nothing to do with the Scots!
---Geographically Wales and Scotland are connected (for better or worse) to the same land mass. If one extends the analogy of the Oeridians (a large diverse people) to the peoples of the British isles (say the Celts and earlier peoples), who are also diverse…then one could get away with such an act.
>Yep, you have no preference for any ract to be ‘Scottish’, but if you are goi
>to do it, get your facts right.
--I shall differ to you sir.
>Anyway, I think the Scots/Tenh link goes a lot further back than Braveheart
>I seem to remember asking before where it came from, and someone suggested
>EGG himself thought of it that way.
---I wouldn’t know. I grew up, gamed, and crafted my own version of WoG in the cultural wastelands of Montana. I’ve seen too many of EGG’s pontificating rants to take anything he says seriously. I mean no offense but this is merely an opinion formed from various and sundry DRAGON articles in the early 80’s. Situations change. People and opinions change. Life goes on.
>Another dimension you forgot is the religious aspect – we had, and still
>have, quite a bit of religious fervor here in Scotland. From the Covenants
>earlier on, to present day sectarianism between the Catholics and
>Protestants, it is a hot-bed of religious fire here, albeit not so tense as
>Northern Ireland I might add.
---I hadn’t forgotten this aspect, I just lacked an appropriate way of applying it. Do the Flani seem this religiously fervent? Such zeal hardly seems to fit (if one were to apply this analogy).
>Again, I should caution against taking any analogy too far. The
>peoples of Greyhawk are unique and any comparison to a culture or people
>on a world berift of magic & majesty is bound to fall short.
---I agree, I would also like to reiterate (in light of Mr. Walsh’s comments) that this comment does apply to my own Oeridian-Scottish/Irish/etc. analog. I am just as guilty as anyone else—and I know this and am fully cognizant of my actions.
>IMC incidentally, the closest to a Scots-based people are a ‘lost tribe’ of
>Flan who fled Haradaragh before its downfall, being forced from their next
>homes in the Good Hills then the Stark Mounds and southern Geoff by the
>advancing nation of Keoland, finally disappearing into the Crystalmists.
---Are the Haradaragh detailed anywhere? I don’t own everything Greyhawk (yet). IMC the clans of Geoff & Sterich are fairly close to being Scots-based: sporting individual clan tartans (though with some colors the Scots traditionally don’t use—which are attributed to Suel, Baklunae, Flani, and non-human influences), beating on each other when there is no one threatening their lands, etc. Though they have had to deal with successive incursions of other peoples.
Again I would with to reitterate, that I meant no malice by my post. I merely saw things differently than Mr. Walsh (I hope I have at least gotten the name right).
Still flanning the flames on my behind,
Chris Jarvis, living in Seattle and occasionally wearing a dress (I mean tunic…no really)