Greyhawk Wars Timeline, Month by Month

 From: Pat Ellis [PatEllis15@AOL.COM]

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 8:43 AM

To: GREYTALK@mitvma.mit.edu

Subject: [GREYTALK] Wars Timeline, Month by Month

Someone was looking for a month by month timeline of the Greyhawk Wars. Well, here it is. I should say that I did this work about 5 years ago, and my campaign differs slight from "canon". I've tried to make the obvious changes (i.e. IMC it was the Spindrift's captured by the S.B., not the Lordship), but chances are there ARE mistakes in here .... In fact taking another look at it, I probably added a bit just to flesh it out, there may be NO reference to show where I found some of this stuff ...

582

Fireseek

"Joining of Forces, Barbarians and Fists"

Readying

Sevvard Red Beard becomes "General" of the barbarian forces

Planting

Sacking of Calbut

Siege of Nevond Nevnend

Fall ofTenh

Vatun revealed as luz, Barbarians disband

Fall of Horned Society

Flocktime

Bandit Kingdoms absorbed by luz

Fall of the Shield Lands

Wealsun

luz pushes toward the Pale, but is ground to a stalemate.(*)

Reaping

Fall of Crockport

Siege of Chendl begins

Alliance between Aerdy and the Bone March (*)

Siege of Chendl is broken

Goodmonth

Fall of Sunndi

Aerdy armies enter the Adri Forest, and Iron Hills (*)

Osson's raid begins with penetration into the South Province

Harvester

Osson Liberates Sunndi

Siege of Nulbish (*)

Patchwall

Osson invades and "Conquers" Medegia

Spidasa flees to Rauxes, and suffers the endless death

Sunsebb

Assassination of Price Latmac Ranolg (*)

Note During the winter between 582 and 583, a number of treaties, or agreements must have been signed: Between luz, and Ket, Furyondy got some allies, Nyrond looked for support from Urnst etc.

583

Fireseek

Belvor is able to mobilize the southern armies and march them North in Furyondy

Lordship of the Isles are taken by the Scarlet Brotherhood

Readying

Turrosh Mak invades and takes the southern areas of the Wild Coast

Turrosh Mak invades eastern Principality of Ulek

Turrosh Mak takes the lower Lortmils, but is finally ground to a halt.

Coldeven

Celene recalls all troops and becomes isolationist

Osson's army is destroyed by Aerdy in Medegia

Planting

Medegia is pillaged

Flocktime

S.B. moves north, and takes ldee, and Onnwall (Note I'm assuming this occurred here, but I can't be certain as it didn't happen IMC).

Sea Princes fall to the S.B.

Wealsun

Sterrich, Geoff are overrun by Giants, the Yeomany collapses (did it?)

Northern Furyondy is fully in the control of luz

Reaping

Eradication of Almor

Bissel invaded by Ket

Execution of generals by lvid. later, reanimated as Animus'

Goodmonth

Invasion of Nyrond (ground to a halt with little gain, large loss of life)

Assassination of lvid (reanimated as an animus)

North Province breaks away as Nyrond pushes back (*)

Collapse of Aerdy

Harvester

Council of Greyhawk Convenes

Anything marked with a * is probably of my own creation. Let's edit away! If you know of something else that should be included, or that should be changed let me know and I'll change it...

Pat E

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Azalin Greyhawk timeline

 From: Dr. Rainer Nagel [rnagel@GOOFY.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE]

Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 6:47 AM

To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Subject: [GREYTALK] Azalin (very long)

The two Ravenloft novels _King of the Dead_ and _Lord of the Necropolis_ (both by Gene De Weese) contain a lot of information about Azalin's days on Oerth. Since those of you who create timelines might be interested, I'm posting a summary here. Since we're talking about books, not adventures, the info presented here might not be. canon, but at least it is canonical within Ravenloft, since it appears verbatim in other RL products.

231 CY

The man who will later become known as Azalin is born in Knurl as Firan Zal'honan, 2nd son of Earl Turalitan Zal'honan, ruler of Knurl. He has an older brother, Ranald, who is a glutton. (KING, p. 81, implied - the action starts in 246 CY and Firan is 15 years old).

234 CY

A younger brother, Irik, is born, who grows up to be loved most by the populace. (KING, p. 81, implied)

246 CY

Firan attempts a "Grand Summoning", together with lrik and the Nyrondese mage Corsalus. The summoning goes wrong, due to a mistake by Corsalus and Firan's faltering at a crucial time. A fiend takes possession of lrik. Earl Turalitan kills his son in demon form, not recognizing him. (KING, p. 89-114) Later that year, Firan relocates to Eastfair (reaching it at the beginning of Fireseek - p. 120) to become an apprentice with Quantarius (a mage who was exiled from Knurl after the lrik incident). Firan is considered to be quite talented. (KING, p. 115-125)

255 CY

Firan defends the caravan of Merchant Glodreddi highly competently against an ambush. He displays first evil tendencies. (KING, p. 126-131)

270 CY

A School of Magic, led by Quantarius, has been established at Eastfair, with Firan being its most highly skilled member. Firan's father dies and is replaced by Ranald.

275 CY

Firan has learned how to collect the life energies of the dying and to apply them to rejuvenate. Quantarius is not pleased and tells Firan of a disturbing prophecy that he should no try to cheat death. Firan finally leaves for Rauxes. (KING, p. 143-149)

283 CY

Firan helps quell a rebellion against the ruling house (which is not named; but their prince is called Edron). Firan lusts for power [he's probably LE at this point]. Then Ranald dies and Firan is recalled to Knurl which he frees of bandits and scheming mages. The people proclaim him "Azal'lan', meaning "wizard king" in Old Ceridian. (KING: 150-165)

283 CY - 291 CY

In the following years, Firan swears fealty to the Malachite Throne and rules Knurl with a heavy hand. He discourages priesthoods which leads to the almost total annihilation of wors~ip in Knurl. Despite frequent infusions of life energy, he begins to. age. (KING, p. 167f.)

291 CY

Firan, who is now respected and feared throughout the Flanaess, coerces a woman named Olessa, daughter of one Count Delaric, into marriage after killing her erstwhile suitor (unbeknownst to her). The marriage is not happy and remains childless. (KING, p. 167-177)

308 CY

Firan finds out that Olessa had herself purposely made barren by a gypsy woman. He finds a way to undo this and fathers a son. Olessa dies in childbed. (KING: p. 176-181)

318 CY

Firan becomes concerned that lrik feels drawn more to the peasants than to the ruling classes (as did his mother). He shows no signs of liking Firan's way of ruling. (KING, p. 182-186) In the following years, Firan's hold over Knurl begins to weaken (KING, p.186)

321 CY

Irik begins to conspire against his father. (KING, p. 184-186)

327 CY

Irik is caught and executed by his father for treason. Firan begins to hear voices (actually the powers of Ravenloft). They persuade him to become a lich [alignment shift to CE?]. (KING, p. 187-198)

329 CY

Firan becomes a lich. (KING, p. 198-203) From this year onwards ("for threescore years" - KING, p. 204), Firan searches for a means to revive his son [remember: no priests in Knurl!]. In the meantime, he seizes the Teesar Valley, the Flinty Hills, the Blemu Hills, and the Adri Forest and installs a reign of terror. He creates an army of unded from slain enemies and dissidents. (KING, p. 204-206)

391 CY

Firan's armies capture lnnspa (KING, p. 206). He is tricked into a trap by his trusted lieutenant Stakaster (KING, p. 207-216), escapes [he has to run away because he doesn't know Teleport, would you believe it] and is brought to Ravenloft by the Mists (KING, p. 219-236). He emerges in Barovia in the year 542, Barovian Calendar. There he forms an uneasy alliance with Strahd Von Zarovich which lasts until 579 Barovian Calendar. Then, he gets to be Lord of his own domain, Darkon.

I spare you the details of Azalin's activities in Ravenloft (save for the mention that Patricia Nead Elrod's _I, Strahd: The War Against Azalin_ contains a good account of this conflict with excellent Azalin characterization).

In the end, it turns out that the Ravenloft powers had influenced Firan from tbe moment of his birth and marked him for some sinister purpose. (LORD, p. 170-172) This purpose turns out to be the freeing of the Ravenloft powers while searching for a means to revive his son. (LORD, 283f.)

Azalin finally finds out about this and prevents it. He manages to return to Oerth in 246 CY, at the time of the Grand Summoning, to change events -but ends up _creating_ them by causing his younger self's indicision at the crudial moment himself. He is finally absorbed by the Ravenloft powers, condemned to watch his actions all over again. Darkon becomes a necropolis. (LORD, p. 290-301)

588 CY

There is a short epilogie dealing with two characters called Oldar and Balitor, former subjects of Azalin to whom he had taken a liking. Before his final fall {and the transformation of Darkon into a necropolis) he promised to send them to safety, which they find on Oerth, their memories of Darkon being only bad dreams. {LORD, p. 302f.)

All right, this does it. I hope it is of yome service to some of you.

Rainer

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Giant Troubles, PS GH Revisionism

 From: Otto Zequeira [OTETA@AOL.COM]

Sent: unday, September 20, 1998 10:05 PM

To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Subject: [GREYTALK] Giant Troubles, PS GH Revisionism

The Giant Troubles

On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:11 :34 -0500, Vashnaar Q Mithruin <vashnaar@RR1 .NET> asked, "I need to nail down he month and year that the Giants and Humanoids invaded Sterich and Geoff. I figure Susebb 583-Fireseek 584. Any other ideas or suggestions would be helpful. I know there are those of you that thrive on placing events and dates."

I wrote down Goodmonth of CY 583, but I can't begin to tell you why right now because I don't remember.

"Are there any modules, post invasion of that area, that i might be able to get ahold of??"

GDQ1-7 works fine here, due to contradictory placement of the modules in the timeline.

PS GH revisionism

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:05:26 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@POLARIS.NET> wrote,"« One might also add in the silliness about certain oerthly powers that appeared in On Hallowed ground. » Oh yeah, that too ... "

What's the word on this? I seem to have missed the news. Was this the stuff about WoGH dieties being dead, or GH dying?

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Timelines, GDQ and ToEE

 From: Keith Horsfield <afn09454@AFN.ORG>

To: ("GREYTALK@mitvma.mit.edu")

Date: Sat, Jul 25, 1998 1:44 PM

Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Timelines, GDQ and ToEE

Otto Zequeira wrote:

>Timelines

> T1-4 says that Lolth received a sharp check to her plans, and consequently grew interested in the ToEE. On the flip side, GDQ1-7, which is the 'sharp check' that the module mentions, is placed after the ToEE in the series.

I only own the individual modules of the GDQ series. These modules were written previously in Real Time to T1-4. The inconsistency only comes into play when a DM desires to run a single party through a 'classic campaign' which many consider to be T1-4, A1-4 and then GDQ1-7 with some of the S modules thrown in.

As to the timeline of the GDQ series, I've always placed them prior to 576 CY due to being referenced in the 1980 World of Greyhawk Gazetteer. The Village of Hommlet is also mentioned in the Gazetteer which meshes with the fact that the Battle of Emridy Meadows took place in 569 CY.

>This solution allows the GDQ1-7 to be tied with the Greyhawk Wars invasion of Geoff and Sterich, which is so strikingly similar to the module. I think that Cook may have had this in mind when he wrote "Greyhawk Wars". He is one of the contributing writers to GDQ1-7 after all. This would need confirmation, though.

I think the remnants of the GDQ series was the basis for what happened in Geoff and Sterich, but I believe this was just Lolth through the giants reasserting her power once the joint endeavor at ToEE fails.

>Also, the World of Greyhawk Gazetteer places the Battle of Emridy Meadows at 569 CY, and T1-4 says that for five years later, things were good in Hommlett, but that in the last year banditry has risen (5). This means that the start of the module is about 575-6, which the Gazetteer also says is the time of its own writing.

First, where does the Gazetter say this?

Second, I disagree with your start time for ToEE based on the following, all of which can be found on pg. 5 of ToEE. Starting with the base date of 569 CY for the Battle of Emridy Meadows

Last paragraph 1st column:

"For five years afterward, the village and the countryside have become richer and more prosperous then ever before."

In this paragraph is the mention of the troll and how it was killed by some adventurers. After that adventurers continue to come but find nothing.

1st full paragraph, 2nd column:

"-- and Hommlet continued its quiet existence for four years more."

The beginning of this paragraph states that adventurers have stopped coming to the area.

2nd full paragraph, 2nd column:

"But then, a year ago, the bandits began to ride the roads again ... From my reading of these 3 paragraphs there are 3 distinct periods after the Battle of Emridy Meadows for the village of Hommlet:

1) 5 years where adventurers continue to visit brought by wanderlust

2) 4 years where the village is left in peace

3) 1 year of rising banditry

Therefore, T1-4 is supposed to take place in 579 CY.

>Consequently, I find that Steve W. starts the GDQ series too early in his timeline by placing it on 566, and Ed Zeamba starts T1-4 too late by placing it on 580.

Actually, I tend to agree with these dates. However, there is one other module, WG8, that assumes T1-4 takes place in or prior to 576 CY. Then again, I think the official date of 576 CY for WG8 to be far too early in the timeline. WG8 is supposed to take place 1,000 years after the founding of the Scarlet Brotherhood, which is given as 5091 SD. However, in the Verbobonc section, the author places the module 'a couple of years' after the completion of the castle in Hommlet. IMO, this module should be placed around 581 CY based on the latter. The date given in the Scarlet Masque is based on a prophecy of what is supposed to happen, not what already has happen. How many prophecies occur when they are supposed to? At least IMC, this one came about 5 years after it was supposed to.

Keith Horsfield

Member Team OS/2

"To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

E-mail: afn09454@afn.org

Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454/

History of Zagyg, part 2 [1/2] (long)

History of Zagyg, part 2 (long)

The Kings & Queens of Keoland: a long list

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:41:08 -0700
Reply-to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Sender: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Chris Jarvis
Subject: [GREYTALK] The Kings & Queens of Keoland: a long list
X-To: Greyhawk List
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Okay, for everyone who wants to know what the future holds. And because I am getting deathly tired of writing the account of each individual monarch here is the big list.

A couple of notes:
1. Queen V'andree Z'entrull ruled Keoghland up until around OR 367 when she was ousted in the Great Rebellion. For about thirty years nobody was really in charge until Lord Jukka D'avros crowning himself king.

2. King Stiggur was not a nice person. He was fond of poison, surrounded himself with a cadre of killers and assassins, and generally had anyone who disagreed with him murdered. He was poisoned by members of the Angadral.

3. King Garridan was mad. He had most of his children drowned or set on fire. He went through about six wives. He was removed from the throne by the Angadral and was the last of the D'avros monarchs.

4. King Tavish I is credited with beginning Keolish imperialism. The Imperial might of Keoland reached its height under King Mhardos II. And pretty much ended with the death of King Tavish III at the Siege of Westkeep.

5. By the time Tavish IV came to the throne, everybody was pissed. He did his best to hold onto the crown but in OR 1125 died under an assassin's blade. Chaos reigned for about five years following his death.

6. From OR 1130 till OR 1168 a series of generals, mercenaries, and riff-raff attempted to hold the Black Lion Throne.

7. The Korie Dynasty came to the throne on the end of E'mund's spear in OR 1168. They held the throne until the untimely death of King Risto in OR 1208.

8. King Risto left behind him four sons, a fifth was born after his death. The oldest, Emrick, was only nine. And while the Angardral supported the Korie line, none were willing to risk the throne on one so young. The Angardral appointed Risto's chancellor as regent for the young prince. In OR 1215, on the eve of his coronation, Prince Emrick was struck down by an envenomed assassin's arrow. He died rather quickly and a fraction of Addathian Nationalists were blamed. Later that same year the thirteen year old Prince Just was killed in a hunting accident in the Axewood. In OR 1217, the twelve year old Prince Mathe drowned while boating on the Sheldomar. In OR 1221 the fifteen year old Prince Pitar was kidnapped by brigands and vanished into the Hool Marshes. In OR 1222, only the fourteen year old Prince Alric remains. This is the year in which my campaign is set-is the boy going to make it? What do you think?

The Kings and Queens of Keoland

Dynasty
Ruler
Crowned
Life span
Notes

Keogh
Brand Keogh
125
100-160
Founder of Keoghland

Rogan Keogh
160
104-171
Younger brother of Brand

Killian Keogh
171
123-197
Son of Rogan

Sean Keogh
197
172-220
Grandson of Brand

Ronan Keogh
220
195-232
Son of Sean

Merant Keogh
232
215-241
Son of Ronan

Adrich Keogh
241
220-250
Son of Ronan

Ore'elos
Druthox Al'Gra
250
130-274
Great Thamauturj of the Suel

La'ktar Phaulka
277
248-285

Du'ath S'sorkya
285
245-322

Korvee U'mothrok
322
230-330
First Witch-Queen

T'shim Valtross
330
270-352

J'arkor F'flokno
352 245-361

V'andree Z'entrull
361
340-?
Witch-Queen

D'avros
Jukka D'avros
392
352-420

Arto D'avros
415
372-437
Son of Jukka

Jussi D'avros I
437
403-440
Son of Arto

O'tuomo D'avros
440
381-472
Son of Jussi I

Jussi D'avros II
472
441-501
Great-grandson of Jussi I

Kosti D'avros
501
492-585
Boy king, Grandson of Jussi II

Mander D'avros
575
562-577
Boy king, Great-grandson of Kosti

Tobbar D'avros
577
559-582
Great-grandson of Kosti

Simon D'avros
582
550-602
Great-grandson of Kosti

Emalia D'avros-Restin
602
581-605
Queen, daughter of Simon

Dagga D'avros-Polasin
605
581-640
Queen, daughter of Simon

Stiggur D'avros
640
610-652
Son of Emalia

Garridan D'avros
652
622-694
Younger brother of Stiggur, Mad King

Restlin
Belgran Restlin
674
632-691
Proclaimed king by Council

Ivor Restlin
691
670-730
Son of Belgran

Tyvan Restlin
730
719-742
Boy king, Son of Ivor

Gregor Restlin
742
730-765
Boy king, Grandson of Ivor

Mhardos Restlin I
765
731-826
Son of Mhardos I

Faetor Restlin
802
751-826
Son of Mhardos I

Wolstan Restlin
826
810-853
Boy king, Grandson of Faetor

Khelvan Restlin I
853
821-907
Grandson of Faetor

Tavish Restlin I
900
880-945
Great-grandson of Wolstan

Khelvan Restlin II
945
922-981
Grandson of Tavish I

Tavish Restin II
981
960-992
Son of Khelvan II

Mhardos Restin II
992
975-1010
Son of Tavish II

Stephan Restin
1010
990-1034
Son of Mhardos II

Tavish Restin III
1034
1010-1097
Son of Stephan

Tavish Restin IV
1097
1080-1125
Great-grandson of Tavish III

Pretender Kings
Caspian V'adda Roarke
1130
1107-1132
Pirate and amge

Grayson Iron Stark
1142
1101-1145
Mercenary captain

O'ceana Elsen Polasin
1147
1117-1153
Warrior-queen, ambitious noblewoman

Kamral Ov Darth
1154
1120- ?
Half-orc adventurer

Jysson the Green
1154
1114-1154
Thief and mountebank

Meganwald Stormcloud
1154
1082-1157
Pretentious mage

Astorghan Redhand
1157
1117-1168
Brigand-Knight

Korie
E'mund Korie
1168
1102-1175
Stable boy, soldier, and finally king

Vaino Korie
1175
1107-1190
Younger brother of E'mund I

E'mund Korie II
1190
1158-1201
Son of E'mund I

Risto Korie
1201
1174-1208
Son of E'mund II

Kimbertos Skotti
(1223)
1180-

Re: [GREYTALK] GH WARS

Subj: Re: [GREYTALK] GH WARS
Date: 98-08-04 17:07:18 EDT
From: froon@HOL.FR (Patric Forno)
Sender: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
Reply-to: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Hello Jason, Roger and the list,

-- Message d’origine –
>If you’d like to discuss the events of the Greyhawk Wars with someone and
>work on it as a team, I’d certainly be willing to bounce ideas back and
>forth with you. In particular, I’m very interested in the chronology of the
>Fall of the Sea Princes for my _Saga of Saltmarsh_.
>

Jason, I wanted to answer you privately, but I thought I might get helped better if I mailed the whole GH community. After all, GH is there for this purpose !

I also mailed this to Roger Moore, because I suspect him of having want I want (an Official GH WARS Timeline).

Sorry, nothing on the Sea Princes from me (there is close to nothing concerning dates in the official material).

I have an enormous problem with the GH WARS : I think the wars lasted from 582 to 585, and it is very confusing for me.

The reason for the confusion is the following :

-Goodmonth 584 : Aerdy nuked Almor & Chathold (WARS, 19 Ivid the Undying). The Month of Goodmonth is written in one of those sources, certainly WARS. It must be 584 because the raid from Osson must be in 583 (cannot be in 582 because the whole Vatun affair started in the fall of 582), and Osson is said to “winter” in the Medegia IIRC, with Ivid’s army on the other side of the border, waiting him. So it seems that the crushing of Almor was next year (so 584).

-Later it is told that Ivid V took the leadership of his armies, thinking the Almorian success was due to his strategic skills. He then entered Nyrond and is repelled. He is said to command from Rauxes, using spells and device, and this is a disaster. [IMO, TSR assumes this to happen in the fall of 584 (though this is written anywhere)].

-Then we learn that Ivid is slain during Richfest (not told which year) (WARS,21). As the story is told it is meant to be after the fall of Almor. But Richfest is BEFORE Goodmonth, so the assassination of Ivid V must be in Richfest 585 !!!

So the meeting at Greyhawk must be in Harvester 585, not 584 and the Day of the Great Signing must be in Coldeven 586, not 585. What a mess….

I can’t believe what I’ve just written, and I think it is false, but I would like to know WHERE it is false.

Maybe it is the fall of Almor who is in Goodmonth 583, and not 584 ? I don’t know, and all this WARS affair begins to get me mad !!!!

That’s why I would like to have an OFFICIAL Timeline for the WARS, and I don’t even ask for a monthly one (it would be good anyway), just an EXACT yearly one would suffice !!!!

I don’t ask for a telling of the WARS as the one in the WARS Boxed Set, I would like to see a TIMELINE. I was very confused by the telling of the whole story in the WARS Boxed Set, and even more confused with all errors that slipped in WGR4 and WGR5 about the WARS. For example, WGR5 p 4 tells that the breaking of Chendl’s siege was in Fall 584, but I can’t believe that Chendl has been besieged for a full year (the siege began in 583, isn’t it ?).

I hope Roger has one.

Regards

--------------
Patrice Forno – Marseille – France
froon@hol.fr
Les Fauconniers Gris (ggf@rmm.fr)
Liste de diffusion sur Greyhawk (Oerth@rmm.fr)

Thin Greyhawk Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/GH/FrGRey.htm
French WiF Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/WiF/wif.htm

Jacques Villeneuve Champion du Monde avec B.A.R. !!!
Go Jacques Go !!!

When did Keoland Begin? and a Keoish Dating System

Date: Sun, 02 Jan 00 11:37AM PST
From: Jason Verbitsky Add To Address Book Add To To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] When did Keoland Begin? and a Keoish Dating System

More Details

When did Keoland begin? According to 'canon', we know this much for
certain:

"Keoland was the first major kingdom to be established in Flanaess, the Oeridians and Suloise tribes mingling and joining to build a tolerant and prosperous realm which nominally included many and varied demi-human groups as well."
(World of Greyhawk Guide p.27)

But exactly when? As the first, it is clearly before the Founding of the Great Oeridian Kingdom of Aerdy in -217 CY, 428 OR, 5299 SD. But as it was formed, in part, by Suloise tribes, it would have to be after the Suloise migrations began in -447 CY, 198, 5069 SD. (World of Greyhawk Guide p.9)

CY OR SD Event
-- -- -- -----

-447 198 5069 Suloise migrations begin
} 25 Years
-422 223 5094 Rain of Colorless Fire
} 205 Years

-217 428 5299 Founding of the Great Oeridian Kingdom of Aerdy

So, then, the period in which the Kingdom of Keoland could be founded in can be narrowed down to some 230 years.

It might have been even before the infamous Rain of Colourless fire fell in -422 CY, 223 OR, 5094 SD (World of Greyhawk Guide p.9). But it seems probable that it was later:

"For two centuries the Oerid and Suel battled each other and the fragmenting humanoid hordes for possession of the central area of the Flanaess, ... In a few places the two racial stocks intermixed - notably the Sheldomar Valley where, except for the Hold of the Sea Princes, the peoples of the Kingdom of Keoland,
... are mixed Oerid-Suel stock. ... the [Suel] Houses of Rhola and Neheli - late migrants who settled and held the Sheldomar"
(World of Greyhawk Guide p.8)

This, of course, refers to the time after the Rain of Colourless Fire and before founding of Aerdy. Here the period of *two hundred years* is very significant as it gives us some idea of how long after the migrations began the Kingdom of Keoland was actually established.

Also, the fact that the Rhola and Neheli were late migrants could indicate that the starting date for these two centuries is a bit later. However, this does not necessarily follow as the Suloise and Oeridians could well have been battling before these later Suel tribes migrated.

Though it seems obvious, for completeness sake, I should state this nonetheless: when they say "two centuries" it doesn't necessarily mean 200 years exactly, it is more like two hundred and some odd years, or even 'about two hundred years' (which could even mean almost, if taken loosely).

So what does all of this give us for a window in which to place the founding?

CY OR SD Event
-- -- -- -----

-447 198 5069 Suloise migrations begin
} 25 Years
-422 223 5094 Rain of Colorless Fire
} 205 Years
-247 398 5269 Approximate end of Suel-Oerid Battles

? ? ? Founding of Keoland } 30 Years

-217 428 5299 Founding of the Great Oeridian Kingdom of Aerdy

This would narrow it down to a 30 year period -- if one wants to have the Kingdom of Keoland founded after the battles have ended. Perhaps founded as a way of making peace between the various warring tribes who were sick of fighting and dying.

Alternately, the Kingdom of Keoland instead may well have been founded before the Oerid-Suel battles had ended and taken part in them (fighting various Oerid and/or Suel tribes/nations). In which case the 230 year window is still the best 'canon' narrowing.

Thus the question arises * do we want to have the Kingdom of Keoland founded in the beginning, middle, or end of this warring period of the Suloise and Oeridian tribes? *

Each of these could work for the Living Greyhawk campaign. But we should reach a consensus and decide upon one and then narrow it down to a specific year.

Many of us have already set our own 'unofficial' and 'uncannonical' dates for Keoland's founding in fans' campaigns:

CY OR SD Founding in the Campaign of or Canon Events
-- -- -- -------------------------------------------

-519 125 4996 Chris Jarvis

-447 198 5069 Suloise migrations begin

-422 223 5094 Rain of Colorless Fire

-316 329 5200 Patrick Franke's Keoish Timeline

-268 377 5248 Scott Rennie's Sheldomar Timeline

-247 398 5269 Approximate end of Suel-Oerid Battles

-217 428 5299 Founding of the Great Oeridian Kingdom of Aerdy

-200 445 5316 Kirt Wackford's Geopolitical History of Keoland
(says 'by' this time but gives no exact date)

192 836 5707 Issak Haywood's Empire of Keoland

In choosing this specific year, I think that it would be quite useful for it to be one that is easy to calculate based off of the CY calendar (and if possible other dating systems as well) so that conversion is as simple and painless as possible -- thus a number that works out as evenly as possible should be employed.

For your reference, here is how years are converted to/from 3 of the various dating systems used in the World of Greyhawk setting:

-CY -> SD +5516
CY -> SD +5515

-CY -> OR + 645
CY -> OR + 644

OR -> SD +4871

Events could be calculated from the founding of the Kingdom of Keoland (such as the Romans used for from the founding of Rome) and a new dating system could be established -- one that relies not upon the Aerdian system of the Great Kingdom which came after Keoland itself was founded. What calendar would have the Keolanders themselves used before the Great Kingdom's influence spread so far and wide? Would they not have kept it? Even if they later adopted the Aerdian method they must
have used something until then! It is logical (although by no means certain) that the Suel and Oeridians would have reached some sort of comprise rather than using one or the other, or both, of their own dating systems. I would call this new dating system the "Keoish Chronology" and abbreviate it as "KC".

With all of the above in mind as a framework, let us discuss exactly when Keoland should be founded (in a manner that is the most consistent with established Greyhawk canon) and if a KC dating system should be employed from that point in time.

Jason
>:)

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
His Dread and Awful Presence,
Jason Verbitsky
hierax@home.com
http://hierax.com/greyhawk/

Southern Border of Keoland, a Chronology (576-591 CY)

Date: Sun, 02 Jan 00 00:44AM PST
From: Jason Verbitsky Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Southern Border of Keoland, a Chronology (576-591 CY)

Scott Rennie wrote:
>
> Frank Timar wrote:
>
> < > breading experiments can enhance the Cthulu flavor proposed for this region.>>
>
> I think Jason Verbitsky once also pointed out to me that my map doesn't extend far enough west to cover Saltmarsh.
>
>Speaking of Saltmarsh, we need an official story of how events played out in that module series. Saltmarsh and nearby communities will be important in suplying Westkeep.>>
>
> Cue Jason... ;-)

Yes, O' great master, you summoned me? I hear and obey. ;)

I'll answer the second question first: the result of the Saltmarsh Series of Modules (U1-U3) is that the Sahuagin were defeated and driven from the Lizard Men's lair (a raid which, BTW, is not dissimilar to the Raid on Innsmouth -- coincidence? ...) [see U3 page 36]

Now the first question, OTOH, is a bit more complicated and requires a longer answer:

-----------------------
Southern Border History
-----------------------

CHRONOLOGY OF

Date Events Occurring / South Keoland Occupied By
---- --------------------------------------------

576 Needfest (New Years)
Keoland (Start of Classic Greyhawk Campaign)

584 Fireseek (1st month)
Treaty of Niole Dra with Furyondy against Iuz

584 Readying (2nd month)
Allied armies march to aid Furyondy against Iuz

584 Goodmonth (8th month)
Scarlet Brotherhood Invades SP & Southern Keoland

584 Harvester (9th month)
Scarlet Brotherhood calls for peace, Council of Greyhawk convened

585 Readying (2nd month)
Keoish, Gran March, Ulek armies march forth from Flen to liberate the giant-held Earldom of Sterich.

585 Coldeven (3rd month)
Treaty of Greyhawk is finally signed Keoish Southern Border fixed where armies were at
the time of signing.

585 Coldeven (3rd month)
Scarlet Brotherhood holds Southern Keoland (Start of Ashes Campaign)

586 Coldeven
Flight of the Fiends

586 Patchwall (4th month)
Furyondy/Veluna attack Iuz breaking the Treaty of Greyhawk

586 Patchwall (4th month)
earliest possible date Keoish liberation efforts could begin

588 Coldeven (3rd month)
last settlement of Sterich liberated from Giants

589 Summer
Revolts sweep through the Hold of the Sea Princes
Probable that Keoish have begun liberation efforts

590 Early in the year
Keoish armies control Southern Keoland
Keoland captures Westkeep in the Hold of the Sea Princes

591 Needfest (New Years)
Keoland's Southern border reaches to the Hools and beyond (Start of Living Greyhawk Campaign)

COMMENTARY AND EXPLANATION

In 576 CY the town of Saltmarsh, and thus the Southern region between the Dreadwood and the Hool Marshes, is firmly in the Kingdom of Keoland. According to the module U1, THE SINISTER SECRET OF SALTMARSH: "...Saltmarsh is placed in the southernmost part of Keoland, at the western edge of hex U4/123." (1981, p.3). However, the national maps in the 1983 GUIDE TO THE WORLD OF GREYHAWK are less conclusive as the area between the Dread Wood and the Hool Marshes is somewhat of a no-man's land (p.44-45). But as the maps don't say that it isn't (any more than they say that it is) and the module explicitly states that it is, IMNSHO, it is.

In 584 CY, during the Summer/Goodmonth, during the so-called 'Greyhawk Wars' after the Scarlet Brotherhood (SB) conquered the Hold of the Sea Princes (SP) they then proceeded to invade southern Keoland and blockade Gradsul (GW p.15, 23-24).

By 585 CY's "cold, harsh spring", the border between Keoland and the SB/SP is in the middle of the Dreadwood -- right from the Javan River to the Azure Sea (as can be seen on the map on the inside cover _FtA:AotF_, the date of which is stated in the text on page 9).

Here it is worth noting that the it could well have taken the Scarlet Brotherhood's forces up until Spring/Coldeven (3rd Month) of 585 to achieve the border depicted on this map. Many would say that this border would have been achieved by Summer-Fall/Harvester (9th Month) 584, but that seems rather quick for my taste. The dating methodology used by TSR for this period is seriously flawed as the date of the FtA is supposed to be the "Year of Peace" after the Treaty of Greyhawk was signed, and that didn't really happen until Spring/Coldeven (3rd Month) of 585! (GW p.24 vs GH:PG p.11, GH:tAB 5, 19, 62). So this FtA map could either refer to Summer-Fall/Harvester (9th Month) 585 or Coldeven 586.

One really should be responsible and go with the date of the earlier publication and make it 586. (BTW, FWIW, Roger Moore himself has agreed with and admitted to me that the date that TSR uses for the Treaty of Greyhawk is in error, but that AFAHK it will be used in future Greyhawk products nonetheless -- I opt to use the correct date regardless of TSR's choice).

Thus, from sometime between Goodmonth (8th month) of 584 and Coldeven (3rd month) of 585 a bloody struggle ensued between the forces of the Scarlet Brotherhood and Keoland for the area of the Dreadwood to the Hool Marshes. The two sides fought each other to a standstill and in Coldeven 585 with the signing of the Treaty of Greyhawk the southern border of Keoland became fixed midway through the Dreadwood. IMNSHO, this up to 7 month war seems a bit better, and more realistic, than having the SB deliver ultimatums, sail ships in and conquer both the SP and southern Keoland all in a single month.

So in Coldeven of 585 CY the Southern border of Keoland was certainly amidst the Dreadwood (as depicted on the FtA map); However, at some point after Coldeven 586 CY, and before the end of 590, the Keoish could have taken the offensive and liberated Saltmarsh and the rest of Southern Keoland. This is possible because in Coldeven and Planting (4th Month) of 586 Furyondy and Veluna were the first nations to cast aside the Treaty of Greyhawk when they invoked the famous 'Flight of Fiends' and attacked Iuz (GH:tAB 19-21, 31, GH:PG 11-12).

Strictly speaking, however, this would require a SB/SP withdrawal rather than a Keoish offensive as Furyondy-Veluna were the first to break the PACT OF GREYHAWK on the 1st of Patchwall 586. But the Keoish with ties to Furyondy-Veluna may have had some advanced warning of the imminent dissolution of the Pact/Treaty so that they could prepare their offensive better than the SB/SP could their defences, and strike early in the month Patchwall (or soon after) to reclaim the civilized portions of the lost Hool Marches (the Keoish Southlands).

In the summer of 589 CY, revolts swept through the Sea Princes domain shaking the hold that the Scarlet Brotherhood had on that nation (Gh:tAB p.32). If Keoland hadn't already moved to liberate southern Keoland, following Furyondy/Veluna's lead, it is probable that this revolt would be the perfect opportunity to do so. If they already had begun such efforts, the revolts would aid the Keoish by seriously distracting the Scarlet armies as to which threat to deal with -- the Keoish or the Sea Princes, and as the revolt is behind the their own lines opening a second front for the war it is probable that they'd devote more effort to suppressing the revolt than fighting the Keolanders.

In 590 CY, Keoland takes the stronghold Westkeep on the other side of the Hool Marshes, across the Javan River (GH;tAB p.32). Here although it is possible that they take Westkeep before liberating all of Southern Keoland, I think that it is highly unlikely as the resources such an expedition would require would be put to better use freeing Keolanders from their Scarlet yoke. Moreover, the Scarlet Brothers would likely have much reduced forces as they still have to deal with the 589 revolt in the Hold of the Sea Princes. With these southern Keolanders freed the Keoish armies swelled as some joined their ranks in vengeance, and the Scarlet occupational forces were seriously diminished. This way the taking of Westkeep after the liberation of Southern Keoland makes more sense, to me at least, than liberating it after taking Westkeep.

Exactly how long this liberation of Southern Keoland would take, as with how long it took to conquer in the first place, is an open matter. Again I prefer to have both the conquest and liberation to take a longer rather than a shorter period of time and thus make for a more epic struggle between Great Powers. But, despite my opinion on this, the evidence does not preclude one or the other, or both, from being lighting attacks with quick results. I think that 'officially' it should be stated that during these nebulous periods that the battle raged back and forth and the individual DMs can then decide exactly where was occupied when according to what is best for their story at the time. But if this approach is taken in the Living Greyhawk Campaign (or any other official form) it should be done with a most cautious eye on the consequences so that once a particular location's occupation during a certain time is stated in a future module or sourcebook, all subsequent works dealing with the area of southern Keoland be forced to take this into account. However, if this flexibility is too much because of WotC's suggested lower standards of fact-checking for Greyhawk writers, then these nebulous periods should be be provided with a single unambiguous chronology that is simple enough to grasp for even the laziest designer -- thus favouring a quick conquest and liberation in order to minimize the opportunities for any further corruptions and convolutions of the 'official' or 'canon' Greyhawk history. I realize that this sort of detail won't matter to the vast majority of players and/or DMs but for Greyhawk purists, like myself, it is an important consideration.

Regardless, in 591 when the Living Greyhawk campaign is to begin, Keoland's southern border once again stretches to the Hool Marshes and now reaches even beyond as the Keoish armies continue their imperial march...

FWIW, this is only my (unofficial) interpretation of when the Southern border of Keoland was where, YMMV. I hope that it is of some use to you, my fellow Greyhawk, and especially Keoland, fans. Gentle readers amongst you will forgive my inevitable errors in grammar and spelling, and I trust that you'll be kind enough to correct me on something that I may have misunderstood or not stately as clearly as I
should have, or add additional references that I have overlooked this evening. I will be considering this issue in more depth to determine the exact chronology, but I welcome any suggestions that you may have so that this chronology can be refined and improved both for my own campaign and for the Living Greyhawk effort.

P.S. For more information on the other events of the Greyhawk Wars involving Keoland see my message on the "Against the Giants: Combined Chronology". FYI, this message can be found in Morgan's Fantastic GreyTalk Archives:

http://24.112.96.246/Add/Greytalk.nsf/b44505cda4beea3285256664005e00fa/8525678a0009fae8852567d10025ca89?OpenDocument

I'll post this message to the Keoland group as it is particularly on topic for Keoish history. If I were to actually receive sufficient feedback, I could possibly be persuaded to revisit the issue to provide a complete Keoish chronology for the entire Greyhawk Wars somewhat earlier than I'd otherwise get around to it...

Jason
>:)

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
His Dread and Awful Presence,
Jason Verbitsky
hierax@home.com
http://hierax.com/greyhawk/

Future Timelines 3/3. LONG END [incomplete]

Date sent: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:09:00 -0400
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Jay Simpson
Subject: [GREYTALK] Future Timelines 3/3. LONG END
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

This is the last of them for now. I don't want to bog down the list too much. Lemme know what you guys think.

597 Iuz crosses the Yol River and begins a pitched invasion of the Pale. Wintershiven is quickly surrounded by Iuz s mixed humanoid armies, as well as a stronger contingent of Trolls, reputedly from the Troll Fens.

In Keoland, Generals Hazifax and Bagnell take and secure the Yeomanry. Geoff and Sterich are now securely under Keoland s flag, and now have sizable armies and noble leaders to defend them. Tavish V orders his two favorite generals to begin a plan for reclaiming the lost coast lands.

598 Gruznor s troops take and sack Marner in Ratik. After stripping the Ratik capitol of as much supplies as possible, the rest is burned. Most of Marner s citizenry is captured and taken back to the Bone March to be used for different purposes. The men are enslaved and sent to work in the mines at Bellport and Johnsport, while the women are used for breeding purposes. Each woman is blessed with four sets of half orcan offspring, then killed. All the children of Marner are forced into the wilds of the Timberway Forest, left to the elements.

599 General Bagnell begins entrenching men in the Torcs. The cleansing of this swamp is a hard and well earned campaign. Bagnell will find himself still fighting in the infernal marshlands some three years later. Meanwhile, General Hazifax leads his men south, over a small arm of the Hellfurnaces and secretly skirts around the Jerlea Bay. This is to be a long expedition as well.

600 As Wintershiven in the Theocracy of the Pale sees the end of its third year of siege, aid from the south arrives. A large contingent of troops arrive from Urnst and aid in the liberation of the Pale s capital city. The King of Urnst times the attack so that, even as his troops are helping the much decimated Wintershiven, a second yet stronger force descends on Redspan. Iuz suffers a stifling defeat. In Suns ebb of this year, Urnst frees Rift Crag of the Iuz occupation as well.

601-602 The refugees from Tusmit, and Ekbir, allied with forces from Zeif and cavalry from the Paynims and Ull sweep down on the Kettite army from what appears to be no where. The united armies lay siege to Ket s capital city of Lopolla and crush the Kettite army after an 18 month struggle. The Kettites receive reinforcements from their newly founded Perrenland Vassal state. The final battle is long and hard, and rages for the better part of 3 days. In the end the Allied Forces prove victorious, the Kettite scourge is no more.

601 General Hazifax and his men arrive at the first of many Scarlet Brotherhood strongholds on the edges of the Amedio Jungle. The Brotherhood, not expecting such an attack, had kept the stronghold severely undermanned, compared to the size of troops that Hazifax brought with him. Over the course of the next year, Hazifax and his men are able to seize three additional Brotherhood strongholds with barely a sound made. Hazifax is also able to capture all but one of the ships docked at each stronghold. From his base in the Amedio, Hazifax starts bargaining with the local tribes and launching an all out guerilla warfare on all Scarlet Brotherhood controlled lands in the Amedio, using local [Missing the rest of the pages]

Re: "Of Iuz and the Northern Reaches"

Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] "Of Iuz and the Northern Reaches"
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:04:40 EDT
From: "Gary L. Holian"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List

>On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Gary R Welsh wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree that a blunder was made with regards to Iuz and the date of his rise....though it was an easy one to make since it didn't appear to contradict any other historical facts. Clearly
>> the year 479 CY was meant to be the date in which he expanded his empire, not the year he came onto the scene in the first place.
>
>Yep. That's what I thought too. And of your scenarios for the dating of Iuz' realm, I think only (1) is possible. According to S4, Iggwilv began her campaign of conquest "nearly a century ago," and subjugated the Marches of Perrenland for a decade (S4, p. 2). That would mean she
>disappeared at 486 at the absolute earliest -- probably later -- in any case after 479. That rules out scenario (2).

Ah, well that depends on numerous assumptions which are not clear cut:
1) The dating of the module S4
2) The dating of the WoG Guide (83)
3) The vagaries of history, and terms such as "nearly a century".

A common misconception about the booklets of the 83 boxed set is that their contents are generally dated to the year 576 CY, the year they were completed by the Savant-Sage in the Free City of Greyhawk. However, its apparent that they are only current to the year 573 CY...and while the sage completed the seven volume set 3 years later, the material is not current to that date, but only to the year of the disappearance of the Prince of Furyondy and the emergence of the Scarlet Brotherhood.
This is not uncommon in histories, where there is a lag between what is current and when it is published.

S4 could have been set anytime in the 570's, realistically speaking, though we know it must have predated the events in Isle of the Ape which are generally dated somewhere between 576-579. Using all of this leeway, its possible to contruct a history whereby Iggwilv's empire fell and Iuz emerged in the north nearly simultaneously. However, I agree that scenario 1) is far more likely since we know that Iggwilv's magic was instrumental in Iuz's rise. It was probably the intention of Iggwilv and Iuz to expand their realm, and with the witch's magic, the cambion emerged from the Howling Hills a force and took Dorakaa. Apparently, they had some falling out and Graz'zt was loosed, forcing Iggwilv into a battle which reduced her powers dramatically, banished the Demon Lord for a century, and ended her
realm.

>> I think it is pretty obvious that his name is due in no small part to his decrepit
>> appearance whilst
Of course, people might call him old because he *looks* old. But I think that he really *is* old -- ancient even. I gave the reasons in an earlier post (i.e. the quotes from the Guide and AoE which clearly establish Iuz as "centuries old").

Well, we don't know how old...but we do know that he looks old, ancient even. I sympathize with your desire to restore Iuz to his original depiction, but I think if we're going to be Monatic* about things, we're stuck with the fact that he didn't rule in the north for centuries, whatever his true age...and quotes from the guide notwithstanding (the puffery of an old sage. ;-) Clearly, it was not known why Iuz pulled back in 505 CY and the fact that the land was ruled in his name by a proto-Bonehart is not distinguishable, his evil festered (indeed his Spurned Cult received power and spread across the Flanaess over the intervening decades.) There only appeared to be an ebb in the expansion of his empire, which resumed anew when the master was back in residence. To assert he only ruled 32 years would be a quibble without teeth, since his status wouldn't have been commonly known...roads were still being paved in skulls apace.

*Monaism asserts the primacy of canon and exhorts its practioners to find the most consistent and ingenious method to satisfy all sources. Not to be coonfused with "Hep Monatics", sufferers of a rare jungle disease involving burrowing insects.

-GLH

Re: "Of Iuz and the Northern Reaches" (HSNR)

Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] "Of Iuz and the Northern Reaches" (HSNR)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:28:07 -0400
From: Stéphane Tanguay
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Hi all !

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Gary L. Holian

What does (HSNR) stand for ?

>Two notable exceptions, are the portions which later came together as the cantons of Perrenland (in 400 CY), and the Archbarony of Blackmoor (which apparently was so cut-off from the rest of the
>Flanaess that when the revolutions sundered the Great Kingdom, it was largely forgotten.) Fred Weining (Psychlops) has an interesting aside in his Blackmoor piece in the Oerth Journal which comments how
>the land eventually disappeared from imperial maps.

Is it from Psychlops's work that you got the info that put Blackmoor under Dyvers "supervision" at a time or is there a canon source somewhere that I've missed? Others (Gary R. Welsh) have the Archbarony at odds with Iuz.

(snip)

>Remember that what is considered the Horned Society now, was simply a part of the loose collection of largely flannish bandit realms we now refer to as the Bandit Kingdoms, indistinguishable from the
>rest. Iuz swept threw those bandit kingdoms between the Veng and Ritensa (sometime between 479 and 505 CY) taking Molag (where the Heirarchs picked up the pieces during his absence.)

It is the second or third time that I see mentions of this invasion of the HS by Iuz at some point in the past but again, I can't find the canon source for this.

I always tought the Horned Society was a loose collection of largely humanoid territories that was organized by some bandits lords (Hierarchs) only after Iuz disappearance.

>1) Iuz made his move during his mother's reign to the southwest. This could have been part of a plan to strike in two parts of the "Northern Reaches", then unify the realm by decimating
> the Highfolk between them while Furyondy was distracted by events in the south. He would have had direct assisstance from her in pulling off his plan, which fell through when Graz'zt
> was loosed and he was on his own. Apparently, he also had some falling out with Iggwilv.

I would go with this option. It would be consistent with what can be found in Rot8. I kind of like seing Iuz and his mother "help" each other. I now just have to find a reason why Iuz appeared to have been adopted as an infant by a flan chieftain while there is many signs he should be older at that time (479 CY). Just a disguise ? Trying to hide his demonic features ? Was it a way to keep an eye on his lands while being away helping mom ?

For myself, I'd like to have Iuz being born around 213 CY, adventuring here and there for a while (notably in the Thillorian peninsula), acquiring some of his knowledge as a cleric and assassin (thanks to Gary R. Welsh for most of these ideas) then come back around Whyestyl Lake and start to build his own fief (circa 300 CY). For years, he battle against the northern nomads and other minor desposts, both Flans and Oeridians. Not able to accomplish much, he renew contact with his mother and agree to leave his fief for a while (circa 470 CY), to make himself forgotten. He help his mother in her research. In 475 CY, Iggwilv have him disguise his demonic features as an infant and be adopted by his "father". He is able to observe his future opponents while waiting for his mother to acquire sufficient powers to help him. This happens in 479 CY. Iuz's "father" is then put to death and Iuz reveal itself, with a lot of new powers.

Here's a rough timeline, based on many sources amongst which Gary R. Welsh and Paul Stormberg post have played an important role in shaping my ideas. I hae incorporated Drelzna and Graz'zt into it, as they are somewhat indissociable:

213 Iuz is born. Age of Great Sorrows begin.
230 Iuz start his adventuring career
300 Iuz start to build his own fief around the Howling Hills
460 Iggwilv consorts with several Perrenland Flan chieftans
462 Iggwilv found the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
465 Drelnza is born
466 Graz'zt is captured by Iggwilv
467 Iggwilv renew contact with her son and begin concocting a plan to conquer the Northen Reaches
470 Iuz "disappear" from his fief.
475 Iuz, disguised as an infant, is adopted by a Flan chieftain of the Howling Hills
479 Iuz's "father" died. With help from Iggwilv's magic, Iuz's might grow. Perrenland and Furyondy attention's are turned toward Iuz, failing to see Iggwilv preparations.
480 Iggwilv embark on her conquest of Perrenland. Drelnza serves as General of Iggwilv's forces.
481 Perrenland is conquered
491 Graz'zt tricks Drenlza into freeing him. In the ensuing battle, Drelnza is killed, Graz'zt is forced to flee to the Abyss for a century and Iggwilv is stricken. The empire of Iggwilv collapse. With her remaining power she hide her treasures in the Lost caverns. Drenlza is interred with these and Iggwilv, who had both pity and hatred for her, kept her from both death and life.

Also note:
591 Graz'zt is free to leave the Abyss

I really like Gary R. Welsh's suggestion of having Iuz be reared and adventuring in the northen barrens. It does explain how he acquire a lot of his knowledge, how later he was able to put up this Vatun construction, how he acquire his soul husks, etc. It also give us opportunities to have him meet with some others luminaries of Greyhawk. Such a background for Iuz seem quite greyhawkish to me.

>but by his disappearnce in 505 CY, he was already being treated as a god by his followers.

Did he ? I tought he became a demi-god while being kept captive under Greyhawk Castle (although how can this be possibly happening is beyond me).

Regards

Stéphane Tanguay
stanguay@francomm.com

Aerdi Overkings, version 2.0

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 01:05AM PDT
From: Taras Guarhoth Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail Blocker
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Aerdi Overkings, version 2.0

Ok, it's been a while since I first posted this, but, well, here's version 2, after learing of another potential Overking from some Ravenloft novel (see the footnotes) and a suggestion or two from a certain lurking individual who goes by the name of Gary Holian (who REALLY ought to post).

Comments and suggests (espically about changing some of the names) are welcomed and encouraged.

Aerdi Overkings

1 CY 32 CY Nasran Cradnen [1]
32 CY 66 CY Serrand Cranden
66 CY 75 CY Tenmeris Cranden [2]
75 CY 86 CY Yalranda Cranden [3]
86 CY 95 CY Manshen Rax-Nyrond [4]
95 CY 122 CY Erhart I Rax-Nyrond [5]
122 CY 136 CY Toran I Rax-Nyrond
136 CY 181 CY Erhart II Rax-Nyrond [6]
181 CY 213 CY Jirenen Rax-Nyrond
213 CY 247 CY Corazell Rax-Nyrond
247 CY 286 CY Edron Rax-Nyrond [7]
286 CY 301 CY Toran II Rax-Nyrond
301 CY 305 CY Erhart III Rax-Nyrond
305 CY 329 CY Toran III Rax-Nyrond
329 CY 355 CY Toran IV Rax-Nyrond
355 CY 396 CY Portillan Rax(-Nyrond) [8]
396 CY 404 CY Galren Rax [9]
404 CY 407 CY Sonnend Rax [10]
407 CY 419 CY Montand Rax
419 CY 436 CY Grendemmen Rax
436 CY 437 CY Nalif Rax [11]
437 CY 446 CY Inserruction - No Overking
446 CY 494 CY Ivid I Naelex [12]
494 CY 497 CY Ivid II Naelex [13]
497 CY 526 CY Ivid III Naelex
526 CY 556 CY Ivid IV Naelex
556 CY present Ivid V Naelex [14]

Notes:
[1] Ivid the Undying - First Overking, crowned in 1 CY.
[2] Ivid the Undying - Grandson of Nasran, died in 75 CY, and was succeeded by his wife, Yalranda.
[3] Ivid the Undying - Only Overqueen. Wife of Tenmeris. Lived to be only 40.
[4] Ivid the Undying - Eldest son of Yalranda, took the last name Rax-Nyrond.
[5] Dragon 230 "The Orbs of Dragonkind" - was on the throne in 98 CY.
[6] It stands to reason that since there was an Erhart I, there needs to be an Erhart II somewhere in here.
[7] Apparently, the Ravenloft novel "King of the Dead", which I don't own, seems to indicate that there was someone named Edron as Overking in the year 283 CY.
[8] Ivid the Undying - Was on the throne at the time of Nyrond s rebellion.
[9] Ivid the Undying - Son and heir to Portillan. A half-wit.
[10] Ivid the Undying - Son and heir to Galren. A drunkard.
[11] Ivid the Undying - Last Rax Overking, assassinated (presumably) by Ivid I.
[12] Ivid the Undying - First Naelex Overking. Ruled for 48 years.
[13] Ivid the Undying - Ruled for 3 years.
[14] Ivid the Undying - Became the Overking in 556 CY. Fifth Naelex Overking.

Rax/Rax-Nyrond - The 83 boxed set clearly states that it was house Rax that sat on the throne. Ivid the Undying states that it was Rax-Nyrond. I'd chalk this up to a Sargent error, but, it actually serves a purpose. The '83 boxed set also states that three houses ruled prior to House Naelex, so, if we count Rax and Rax-Nyrond as two different houses, and assume that starting with Overking Portillan, the -Nyrond was dropped to distance the remaining scions of House Rax from their rebellious junior branch, we get three houses. Incidentally, that d make Portillan the last Rax-Nyrond
Overking, and the first Rax Overking.

Taras Guarhoth
http://users.vei.net/wolfiefox/tarasguarhoth/

Pre-War skirmishes and WG8 (was: When did the REAL Greyhawk Wars begin?)

Priority: Normal
Date sent: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 12:29:07 -0400
Send reply to: Keith Horsfield afn09454@afn.org
From: Keith Horsfield afn09454@AFN.ORG
Subject: [GREYTALK] Pre-War skirmishes and WG8 (was: When did the REAL Greyhawk Wars begin?)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Remember this post:

> So you think it is a trick question, see Dragon #65.
>
> Answer: 578 CY – Kingdom of Nyrond, Prelacy of Almor and their
>allies proclaim war on the Great Kingdom.
>
> Oh, and btw the Grandwood Forest was possibly in for a world of
>hurt in 578 CY, see Dragon #63.

Here is more fuel to add to the pre-FtA maneuvering.

From WG8: Fate of Istus, pg. 69 (center column, 1st full paragraph)

“Ivid has become more obsessed with extending his lands in order to form the “Greater Aerdi Empire” ever since his declaration of war against Almor and Nyrond. The Herzog’s subsequent blunting of the armies of the Golden League (Nyrond, Almor and those countries comprising the Iron League; see Guide to the World of Greyhawk, “An Overview of Political Divisions”) has added only fresh fuel to his monomania. The aforementioned battle(s) transpired after the events detailed in T1-4 (The Temple of Elemental Evil) and spanned two years, ending in a minor strategic victory for Ivid’s field army under the leadership of the Herzog, and seeing the withdrawal of Almorian and Nyrondese armies to the west of the Harp River.”

Taking all of the above into account, the following might be surmised:

578 – Mutual declaration of war; No actual campaigning due to the Golden League trying to come to some census of the proper strategy and Ivid having to deal with the insurrection of the Grandwood Forest.

579 – ToEE takes place (need to reread this module to see if there is any mention of events to the east); Campaigns begin between the GK and the Golden League.

580 (late) or 581 (early) – The Golden League retreats behind the Harp River.

This also leads to a narrowing of when WG8 takes place:

Under the section for Rel Mord:

The Iron Fist Guild is founded in 504 CY. When describing the Guild’s building it is mentioned that mercenaries have been gathering there for over 70 years.

With the understanding that WG8 is a transitional module prior to the wars, this makes sense and places it between 576 and 582 (each over 70 years but less than 80). The above notes on the war with the Golden League further narrow down the window to 580 to 582.

There are other clues as to the timeframe of WG8, one of the best so far is that Ivid has replaced Xaene with Karloolck six months ago. Anyone know when this took place?

Comments, suggestions, opinions?

Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
-----
E-mail: afn09454@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454/

Future Timeline 1/1

Date sent: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 16:16:00 -0400
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Jay Simpson
Subject: [GREYTALK] Future Timeline 1/1
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

This is the first post of several I intend. This is a tiny exerpt from a timeline I am working on. I thought I would start sending stuff to this list for your approval. Many of my ideas came from you folks on the list. As well as other NET resources. I have no intentions of claiming any kind of glory or any such, and this timelime has been written solely for the use as background information in my own campaign set in669 CY. Any of you may use any of this asyou wish.

Jay Simpson

585 The general's attempt to infiltrate Rel Deven is thwarted. Meural and the remains of the Almor-Medegian army reach Rel Deven. Carwen establishes the Council of the Crandens as a permanent body. The Patriarch of Hextor is poisoned in Rel Astra. At the same time, members of the Scarlet Brotherhood appear in the city. Ahlissa declares full independence. The second youngest son of the Duke of Chathold dies somewhere in the Great Kingdom. Szeffrin gathers great numbers of orcs for his army and conquers the citadel of Goldbolt, forcing the Cranden border southwards. Drax builds ships. In the autumn of this year Carwen becomes very ill.

Euroz and Vile Rune Orcs begin fighting for control of the Bone March. They are both ousted though when the Zhorez tribe and Rotted Skull tribes ally and form a third faction. The Euroz somehow manage to ally and take control of these two new tribes. Vile Rune, rather than face extinction, join under the Euroz banner as well. The leader of the four tribes, a self proclaimed king, is a powerful orc named Gruznor Bloodspiller.

586 In an aggressive campaign, King Tavish V of Keoland sends armies under command of his favorite General Begnell into Geoff and Sterich. General Bagnell marches first on Geoff and Geoff is liberated rather easily in a surprise attack at the Battle of Gorna, which catches the evil forces there quite unaware. Bagnell is able to sneak his main attack force through the Stark Mounds while sending a token diversionary force through the Oyt Wood. The two forces meet at Gorna and claim it within a fortnight. Once nested in Gorna, Bagnell is able to direct several successful attacks against humanoid forces held up in the Hornwood. These raids are very successful and Bagnell becomes a celebrated hero in the home courts of Niole Dra, where he rapidly becomes know for his aggressive and relentless methods. Before the grip of winter can settle in, General Bagnell returns to Niole Dra late this summer to summon more troops. He leaves a young General by the name of Drogan Hazifax in command of the troops of Gorna. General Halifax is widely known through Keoland as the youngest commanding General in the Royal Army. Many nobles think that it is a mistake for Bagnell to leave such a young and inexperienced General in command of such an important outpost. Bagnell ignores all of the nobles jibes. Brewfest of this year finds General Bagnell commanding a new host of soldiers stationed in the Good Hills just south of Flen. Bagnell fords the Javan and begins a forced march on Istivin. At the same time General Hazifax begins another aggressive march, called a Cleansing, into the Hornwood and eventually south across the Stark Mounds. Both forces eventually meet at Istivin, beginning a swift siege on the city. The token force of Giants evacuate the city and allow the duel Keoland armies to occupy the city. Two weeks later, however, a stronger force of Humanoids and Giants along with obvious Drow aid reclaim the City of Istivin. This counter offensive was expected by General Bagnell, and he like the Giants before him vacate the city. This time, however, the surprise comes from Keoland's prized General's mind. While Bagnell and his men evacuate the city, Hazifax and his men secretly hide within the city in secret tunnels and cellars rapidly dug throughout the city during their short time of occupation. This was possible due to Hazifax owning two magical items instrumental in rapid tunneling and earthen construction. When the Evil forces moved in to occupy the city, Bagnell turned 180 degrees and renewed his siege. As the Giant/Humanoid/Drow forces settled in, prepared for a lengthy siege, Hazifax and his troops attacked from within. The Evil forces were unprepared for this surprise and were slaughtered after a week long city wide purge. Most of Istivin was burnt during this offensive, and while Hazifax took his men back north to Gorna, Bagnell elects to winter over in Istivin, to aid in the reconstruction process.

Ratik attempts an invasion into the Bone March to stop Gruznor before he can gain too much power. The Ratik forces are beaten back mercilessly, and suffer many heavy losses. Gruznor begins to form and alliance with the Ogre and Gnoll tribes in the Rakers, and the Hobgobin tribes in the Flinty Hills. When news of this impending alliance reaches the courts of Nyrond it is laughed at. While those remaining in the North Province choose to ignore the growing threat, thinking it will die out soon.

587 The Drow/Giant Alliance renews it s attacks on Istivin and poisons the Davish River with the dead. Bagnell settles in and waits for the forthcoming siege. Hazifax sees renewed fighting near the Hornwood as well and is unable to send any troops to aid Bagnell.

Orc King Gruznor of the Bone March, seizes Ratikhill and takes control of the Loftwood in a fierce winter campaign. Refugees of Ratikhill report that the humanoid forces seem more prepared for the weather and conditions than in the past. Gruznor demands aid from the Herzog of the North Province, Grenell. This aid does not come, but Herzog Grenell does promise not to interfere with Gruznor s conquest of Ratik. Gruznor begins slashing the Loftwood in a swift ship building campaign.

588 Turrosh Mak launches a final offensive. This time his forces are better equipped and better armed. The combined armies of the Ulek States were no match for the massive horde of humanoids that swept up out of the Pomarj. The Pomarj armies sweep through the Ulek States in a matter of months, leaving nothing but carnage in their wake. Turrosh and his ravenous horde claim Gryrax, Havenhill, and Jurnre before Growfest arrives, and by the end of that same festival Tringle has fallen. His armies then press north, claiming all the lands east of the Sheldomar north to the Lort River near Waybury. Pomarj armies can be seen dancing on the shore across the Sheldomar late into the night, celebrating their new found territory. The survivors of the blitz run to Keoland, [some text missing?], but Keoland is unable to send aid. Tavish V had made a fatal error. Believing the Pomarj to no longer be threat and the rumors of Turrosh Mak s death to be true, Tavish had routed most of his forces to his western front so that Hazifax and Bagnell could better be supported in their efforts their. The Humanoids and Giants hadn t quite given up on there possibility of having a strong outpost in the Flanaess and both of the Generals were entrenched in their respective cities fighting a long drawn out Giant War. The refugees of the Ulek States eventually scatter, most of them migrating to Veluna, Furyondy, and Highfolk.

Rabid waves of Bone March humanoids fall on Bellport in the early spring months of this year. Gruznor was able to take Bellport so easy due to the orcs in Grenell s standing army already stationed there siding with Gruznor. Bellport s mines are captured, and a serious blow is dealt to the North Province. Meanwhile Gruznor sends many "expendable" troops towards Kaport Bay, Eastfair, Edge Field and Atirr. The orcs under command of the Herzog rebel against their North Province leaders and ally with the Bone March troops. While these troops number in the thousands, they are not meant to return home. These forces are sent in clusters of a few hundred each, and scatter themselves across the remains of the North Province. For the most part these clusters are missed by paranoid patrols, and none of the clusters begin causing problems until they are well within enemy territory.

589 Orc King Gruzno slowly begins expanding his borders south of Bellport. The thousands of Humanoids stationed there advance and claim about a mile a day. Meanwhile, Gruznor s troops based out of Ratikhill are slowly advancing towards Marner. Gruznor also secures his holdings in Knurl as well as fortifying himself in the Flinty Hills. To accomplish this last task, Gruznor grants "Lordships" to some of his most loyal "generals" and they in turn migrate with their various clans to the Flinty Hills. Gruznor also offers higher pay to those of his soldiers that can produce the most offspring. This results in a population explosion in the Bone March of Orcs. No retribution comes from any forces in the North Province as their wicked leaders still fail to consider Gruznor a threat. Nyrond, however, begins to take notice. Gruznor loyalists clash with a token Nyrondese border patrol in the Flinty Hills during the late fall of this year. While the Nyrondese troops prove the victors, they return home with only half their original number. Nyrond opts not to force a conflict with this new force in the Bone March, since it seems evident that Gruznor will take the North Province.

590 In a surprise rush, thousands of Orcs under Iuz s banner catch the Vesve folk unaware. The Orcan hordes attack from every direction, even from tunnels beneath the ground. Iuz is finally able to capture much of the Vesve Forest. In a decisive battle west of Crockport, where Iuz forces over run key positions throughout the Vesve, thousands of good aligned folk die horrible deaths at the hands of Iuz s demonic spawned troops and feral orcs. Using the Vesve Iuz is able to break through Furyondian lines in one concerted effort and begin laying siege to Chendl. Many more humans are seen fighting on Iuz s side, and rumors of artifact level magic on the Old One s side run rampant throughout the Flanaess. As the Peace of Greyhawk is obviously now broken, armies all across the land begin preparing for march. Alliances are doubted and shifty eyes are everywhere.

Even as Iuz is laying siege to Chendl, there is an uprising in Rookroost. Many revolutionary battles are fought but the token forces are severely dealt with by Iuz troops. Redspan becomes an influential and key position as does Rookroost itself. The Fall of this year sees troops from both the Pale and the County of Urnst crossing the Artonsomay. It is curious to note that nothing is heard from Nyrond in the early days of this, the Second Great War.

By High Summer, Gruznor has expanded the Bone March s borders as far as Kaport Bay, taking that very weakened city in under a month. Gruznor fortifies a line from Knurl to Kaport Bay, building orcan burrows and villages approximately every 10 miles or so. In these burrows the Orcs nest in and continue their rapid period of production. Gruznor follows through with his promise, and uses the spoils taken from Bellport and Kaport Bay to pay his troops for
[Page missing]
blatantly disagrees and takes Stoink as a safe measure, fortifying the city in the process.

Nyrond, unsure of where the next attack is going to come from, sits and waits. Fortifying already well established strongholds and building the army bigger.

596 The first evidence of a Pomarj Navy is discovered when Turrosh Mak and his forces Launch a two pronged attack on Gradsul. One head of Mak s army comes across the Sheldomar while two other waves attack from the sea. General Torocoan who is stationed at Gradsul at the time of the attack, is seen fighting amongst his men in a valiant effort to save the doomed city. He is last seen going down under a wave of orcan and goblinoid attackers. General Dovenmar and the rest of the struggling Keoland River fleet attempt to flee to the sea, but are quickly decimated by the more ocean worthy Pomarj Navy. Where, when, or how Turrosh managed to develop these sailing vessels is unknown. As the battle rages, the fires of Gradsul keep the night time sky lit as it were day. The remnants of the Keoland Ocean Navy arrive and take serious losses attempting to save Dovenmar and his men. They fall back to the Sheldomar, and it is here that the entire Keoland Fleet is destroyed. The Pomarj Fleet, aided by shore bound catapults and superior numbers, manage to sink every ship. Dovenmar and his ships make a heroic stand hoping for aid to arrive in time, but the aid never comes. Gradsul falls and Monmurg not long thereafter, as Turrosh puses his forces against Brotherhood controlled lands. Rather than fight what they know to be a losing battle, the Brotherhood gives Turrosh Mak Monmurg as well as several Islands as long as he agrees to make no further western expansion. Turrosh makes the agreement, then turns around and purchases several thousand slaves from the Brotherhood to use in his front lines. Turrosh Mak splits his empire and establishes a second capital on Jetsom Island. From here, his newly found navy is able to patrol all along the Azure Coast, effectively land locking the Keolanders.

The County of Urnst and the Duchy of Urnst unify into a single Kingdom. This is facilitated by the marriage of Duke Karl s eldest son to Countess Belissica s daughter. Duke Karl takes the title of King so that his son may inherit a kingdom. Countess Belissica insists that the capital of this new kingdom be Radigast city, and that all further heirs of the Kingdom of Urnst come from the house of Gellor. This basically means that the inherited title of King or Queen of Urnst is to be passed along the female lines of the family. Duke Karl s son, Kressen, takes the last name of his bride to show he fully supports this condition. As part of this new direction in Urnst s history, and in an attempt to aid the economically faltering Nyrond, the Kingdom of Urnst purchases many of Nyrond s northern lands, including those around Midmeadow. This reduces Nyrond s taxable borders to a northern extent of Borneven, while placing a considerable amount of gold in the King s coffers. This also serves to alleviate any immediate fears of Iuz coming against Nyrond, so that Nyrond is better able to deal with it s more easterly threats, namely the Bone March.

Fate of Istus

Subject: [GREYTALK] Fate of Istus
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:39:57 EDT
From: Tamerlain@AOL.COM
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Patrice writes:

>>Greyhawk the Adventure begins page 3 seems to say it is set between 578 and 582.>>

Paul writes:

>>Sages and savants -
Although I don't have an answer to Creighton's answer, I do have another question. I once saw a glancing reference to FoI as "non-canon" or no longer canon. Is this true, and why?>>

Rainer writes:

>>But the Scarlet Brotherhood adventure inside (the final one, where all the monks leave Oerth) sets it in 576 CY.>>

Lisa writes:

>>Actually, what I said was that some parts of it weren't considered canon.
For instance, the existence of Kara Tur since that was moved to the Realms. So,
at best, you should take stuff within FoI with a grain of salt.>>

(See explanation of this below---Steve)

Paul and all (except Lisa, who already knows all of this!),

At the Greyhawk Summit 98, Team Greyhawk decided that the Fate of Istus was only partially canon (actually, we had talked about this off and on for a while prior to the Summit).

The rationale goes as follows: 1) The new Greyhawk would act as if monks and assassins did *not* disappear (and they didn't disappear in many home campaigns anyway), and Scarlet Brotherhood Monks are not Oriental Monks, therefore the sections in FoI about the Kara Tur monks et al do not apply, 2) Some dates given in the FoI cause potential problems with dates presented in other products...fixes for these have to be made, or the FoI dates should be ignored where these conflicts exist, 3) Some things, like the Istus' plague very well could have happened without disrupting the rest of the setting (the date for this isn't set, but anywhere from 576 to 582 with no trouble.), 4) Some dated historical events are fine and do not conflict with other events in Greyhawk canon (such as the brief siege of Junre by goblins and orcs in the Hateful Wars 9253 [25])

In case 1) nothing is considered canon, in case 2) only some things are considered canon, after work, in case 3) the event is canon, but no date is attached (Roger was functioning within this framework for assigning the dates for FoI in The Adventure Begins), and in case 4) all are canon.

Because of these reasons, Team Greyhawk has a very flexible attitude about FoI as one might imagine (Sean cursed it once within the last two months, even as I was trying to provide rationale for some of its dates. Erik and Roger were generally just laughing...and then they started trying to sort the mess out for the particular dates we were working on... ;)

I'd suggest the following if you want to include the 576 date for FoI:

576-582 CY---Events in the adventure Fates of Istus 9577 [3]

576 CY---Passing of the "Millennium" date predicted by Huro for the Scarlet
Brotherhood, Millennialist Party begins to decline (6091 SD)
Note: See c 490's 11374 [17], 9253 [110]
---Scarlet Brotherhood discovers Weeping Hexagram (6091 SD) 11374
[86]
---beginning of the plague of Istus (although this could go
anywhere between 576 and 582.) (based on 9253 [110], modified by 9577 [3])
Note: this date assignment is not *canon* just my suggestion.

581 CY--- Band of mercenaries penetrate defenses of the Hidden City of the Scarlet Brotherhood (Hesuel Ilshar), and steal an Weeping Hexagram (6096 SD) 11374 [5, 86] NOTE: This event could well easily be modified to be the party of adventurers from FoI (9253), primarily, while the Weeping Hexagram might still have been destroyed, don't automatically assume that the party was as per 11374 [5].

(Compiled dates from the GreyChrondex)

If an early date is assigned to the plague, and the character party is assumed to be the 581 CY bunch that steals the Weeping Hexagram, it is possible to stretch the events of the FoI out over several years, and have the plague act as one of the major pre-cursor event to the Wars.

For campaigns that have used FoI and already have it "set" in time, it would be easy enough to say that parties that successfully got to Hesuel Ilshar and left (alive) were the party that stole the Weeping Hexagram (and move that date if necessary).

This is "retro-fixing" but it does make FoI fit better. To keep the annoying "upgrade" tendencies of FoI out, just work out new rewards/punishments for characters at the end of each chapter that changes the class to 2nd ed. The adventures in FoI aren't bad, and the city descriptions are nice to have, but having the whole thing drive a change to 2nd ed was a poor "setting" decision (even if it might've been a wise marketing one). It is our "Avatar" book, and we should just be glad it was only one adventure.

Steve Wilson
Greyhawk "Sage," Team Greyhawk

Zuggtmoy Free! (was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)

Date sent: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:09:17 -0700
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: Jason Verbitsky JV@BC.SYMPATICO.CA
Subject: [GREYTALK] Zuggtmoy Free! (Was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Joseph Barrios wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-09-10 08:19:09 EDT, you write:
>
> << From reading the atlas of From the Ashes, it appears to have been [year missing]
> CY, one year before Iuz was released from his imprisonment in Castle
> Greyhawk.
> Eric >>
>
> I do not believe this is correct. 569 CY was the year when the Battle of
> Emridy Meadows occurred…the year in which Zuggtmoy was imprisoned. The
> Prince of Veluna wasn't kidnapped until 573….and the Temple of Elemental
> Evil module has the PC's finding him in the Temple disguised as a dead
> vampire.
>
> For anyone who is tuning in just now, the question is: in what year was the
> Temple sacked and the demonness Zuggtmoy freed? (In other words, what year
> was the TOEE module set in?) I'm starting a Greyhawk campaign and want
> the module in the proper year.

The Mother of all Mushrooms was most probably freed c. CY 579-580 by Rob and/or Iggwilv. As Zuggtmoy had to be free to attack Anthraxus in the Hall of Dread in Molag in Artifact of Evil (p.234) and Iggwilv takes credit for freeing her (p.330) when these two 'lovely' ladies show up to see Iuz.

The tireless researches of the good Savant Iquander, based on the internal evidence in Gygax's Gord novels, has dated what I call the 'Catastrophe Krebalsthorp' where Nerull et. Al were 'banished' to Reaping CY 580, and the siege/fall of the Molag to Goodmonth (Summer) CY 580. As ol' Zugs assault upon Anthraxus occurred in between these two events it would be late Reaping 580. So as for her freedom, late 579 at the very earliest and mid 580 (summer Reaping) at the latest seem reasonable dates. At least that is what I'm going with (for now).

Again, though, as I asked in my previous message (“Zuggtmoy's Freedom: Robilar, Iggwilv, or Both? (Date?)”) :

Was it Robilar or Iggwilv (AoE 330) that was responsible for freeing Zuggtmoy from the Temple of Elemental Evil? Or were they somehow involved? What is the real story here? And what was the exact date of this historic event? Robilar? EGG? Anyone?

Which version is correct? Or are they both? Is Iggwilv taking credit for Robilar's work? Did Robilar throw the pillar at Iggwilv? What really happened? And when?

I'd like to know how this all came about. Did Iggwilv somehow manipulate (perhaps provoke would be a better word?) Robilar into throwing the pillar at the doors? Maybe the old projected image trick combined with a bit of suggestive taunting?

I've appended the relevant quotes to this message after my sig.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
His Dread and Awful Presence,
Jason Verbitsky
JV@bc.sympatico.ca
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/JV/INDEX.HTM

The Robilar Side (taken from the Greyhawk Grimoire: Sage.txt):

<< On page 29, of the Temple of Elemental Evil (T1-4), middle of page, [number missing], there is mentioned a “sharp check dealt Lolth”. Since the Temple Series adventure is before the Giants, and Queen of Spiders, series – what sharp check is this? >>

#012 ANSWERS
...
Gary Gygax: Robilar inadvertantly freed Zuggtmoy by using his girdle of storm giant strength to toss a piller through the doors of her prison. She, in delight carried him off to the Abyss so he could be one her most trusted servants. Robilar blanched at this, and managed to get back to the PMP. That took some time, though, and when he got back to the temple area he found his faithful orc “hero” Quij, warm and snug, having made a poncho of Robilar's flying carpet. You got it right, though. When Zugg'y showed up again down there, Lolth's plans for greater grandure were generally squelched.

The Iggwilv Side (Gary Gygax's Artifact of Evil page 330):

Iggwilv, speaking to her son Iuz, says:

“You are wanting information. Well then, attend Me. It was a near thing, for those soft nd stupid ones who ooppose the true order of things came in their multitudes. Despite their mewling attempts, I found and freed Dear Lady Zuggtmoy.”

Re: Temple of Elemental Evil

Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:22:12 -0400
Reply-To: Keith Horsefield
From: Keith Horsefield
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Temple of Elemental Evil
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Michael Gillis wrote:

>I am currently running a campaign in C.Y 580. As a long-time “resident” of
>Greyhawk, I have yet been able to introduce the Wars into my game.
However, I
>am leading my campaign into the Wars, albeit slowly. I am planning on
sending
>the members of my current group through the Temple of Elemental Evil.
Does
>the timeframe make sense – C.Y 580?
>
>I can find no references that would prohibit the Temple's inclusion in the
>time frame, but I am somewhat of a traditionalist. Help.

This was in the archives, but since I never received any response to [missing text?]
I'll post it again:

All the references are to pg. 5 T1-4.

Starting with the base date of 569 CY for the Battle of Emridy Meadows

Last paragraph 1st column

“For five years afterward, the village and the countryside have become richer and more prosperous than ever before.”

In this paragraph is the mention of the troll and how it was killed by some adventurers. After that adventurers continue to come but find nothing.

1st full paragraph, 2nd column:

“—and Hommlet continued its quiet existence for four years more.”

The beginning of this paragraph states that adventurers have stopped coming to the area.

2nd full paragraph, 2nd column:

“But then, a year ago, the bandits began to ride the roads again….”

From my reading of these 3 paragraphs there are 3 distinct periods after the Battle of Emridy Meadows for the village of Hommlet:

1) 5 years where adventurers continue to visit brought by wanderlust
2) 4 years where the village left in peace
3) 1 year of rising banditry

Therer, T1-4 is supposed to take place in 579 CY.

An alternate reading though might include some of the second time period

[Text missing]

Arguably this module could take place anywhere within the timeline of 575 – 579 CY dependent upon how close or how far the DM wants to be in relation to the Greyhawk Wars.

Now of course FtA mucks this all up cause Thrommel is still missing.

Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
E-mail: afn0945@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454/
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