Down with Ivid! Up with...Erac's Cousin?

 

Re: The Improbabilities of Rary

 

Re: (Rary's intentions)

Rary motives (kinda long)

History of Zagyg, part 3 (long)

Questions-Answer Memo, w/e 9.27.97 (part 2)

Zuggtmoy Free! (was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)

Date sent: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:09:17 -0700
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: Jason Verbitsky JV@BC.SYMPATICO.CA
Subject: [GREYTALK] Zuggtmoy Free! (Was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Joseph Barrios wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-09-10 08:19:09 EDT, you write:
>
> << From reading the atlas of From the Ashes, it appears to have been [year missing]
> CY, one year before Iuz was released from his imprisonment in Castle
> Greyhawk.
> Eric >>
>
> I do not believe this is correct. 569 CY was the year when the Battle of
> Emridy Meadows occurred…the year in which Zuggtmoy was imprisoned. The
> Prince of Veluna wasn't kidnapped until 573….and the Temple of Elemental
> Evil module has the PC's finding him in the Temple disguised as a dead
> vampire.
>
> For anyone who is tuning in just now, the question is: in what year was the
> Temple sacked and the demonness Zuggtmoy freed? (In other words, what year
> was the TOEE module set in?) I'm starting a Greyhawk campaign and want
> the module in the proper year.

The Mother of all Mushrooms was most probably freed c. CY 579-580 by Rob and/or Iggwilv. As Zuggtmoy had to be free to attack Anthraxus in the Hall of Dread in Molag in Artifact of Evil (p.234) and Iggwilv takes credit for freeing her (p.330) when these two 'lovely' ladies show up to see Iuz.

The tireless researches of the good Savant Iquander, based on the internal evidence in Gygax's Gord novels, has dated what I call the 'Catastrophe Krebalsthorp' where Nerull et. Al were 'banished' to Reaping CY 580, and the siege/fall of the Molag to Goodmonth (Summer) CY 580. As ol' Zugs assault upon Anthraxus occurred in between these two events it would be late Reaping 580. So as for her freedom, late 579 at the very earliest and mid 580 (summer Reaping) at the latest seem reasonable dates. At least that is what I'm going with (for now).

Again, though, as I asked in my previous message (“Zuggtmoy's Freedom: Robilar, Iggwilv, or Both? (Date?)”) :

Was it Robilar or Iggwilv (AoE 330) that was responsible for freeing Zuggtmoy from the Temple of Elemental Evil? Or were they somehow involved? What is the real story here? And what was the exact date of this historic event? Robilar? EGG? Anyone?

Which version is correct? Or are they both? Is Iggwilv taking credit for Robilar's work? Did Robilar throw the pillar at Iggwilv? What really happened? And when?

I'd like to know how this all came about. Did Iggwilv somehow manipulate (perhaps provoke would be a better word?) Robilar into throwing the pillar at the doors? Maybe the old projected image trick combined with a bit of suggestive taunting?

I've appended the relevant quotes to this message after my sig.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
His Dread and Awful Presence,
Jason Verbitsky
JV@bc.sympatico.ca
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/JV/INDEX.HTM

The Robilar Side (taken from the Greyhawk Grimoire: Sage.txt):

<< On page 29, of the Temple of Elemental Evil (T1-4), middle of page, [number missing], there is mentioned a “sharp check dealt Lolth”. Since the Temple Series adventure is before the Giants, and Queen of Spiders, series – what sharp check is this? >>

#012 ANSWERS
...
Gary Gygax: Robilar inadvertantly freed Zuggtmoy by using his girdle of storm giant strength to toss a piller through the doors of her prison. She, in delight carried him off to the Abyss so he could be one her most trusted servants. Robilar blanched at this, and managed to get back to the PMP. That took some time, though, and when he got back to the temple area he found his faithful orc “hero” Quij, warm and snug, having made a poncho of Robilar's flying carpet. You got it right, though. When Zugg'y showed up again down there, Lolth's plans for greater grandure were generally squelched.

The Iggwilv Side (Gary Gygax's Artifact of Evil page 330):

Iggwilv, speaking to her son Iuz, says:

“You are wanting information. Well then, attend Me. It was a near thing, for those soft nd stupid ones who ooppose the true order of things came in their multitudes. Despite their mewling attempts, I found and freed Dear Lady Zuggtmoy.”

forwarded message

Date sent: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 17:43:21 +0000
Send reply to: rjkuntz@cgi-net.com
From: rjkuntz
Organization: Creations Unlimited
Subject: [GREYTALK] forwarded message
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Subject:
Robilar Remembers? [Was Old Campaign Synopses]
Date:
Thu, 04 Sep 1997 13:56:19 +0000
From:
rjkuntz
Reply-To:
rjkuntz@cgi-net.com
Organization:
Creations Unlimited
To: Gary R Welsh
References:
1

>
> Now, Dek, I'm not against your point of view but I don't see why we can't
> have some variety of product.

How about detailed areas of the Wild Coast? That was a project of mine previous to giving up the ghost with the old TSR regime. Also Stoink is a winner, hands down. Castle Greyhawk has tremendous potential—and this would be reworked from existing data. My castle El Raja Key and its many sub plots—the list is endless for adventure. And note my market plan for other insights.
>
> G.R. Welsh
>
> CY 597 – the scene: an early autumn morning in a Velunan Cathedral. Qu[iet?]
> acolytes, going about their duties, look up in shock as a cry of outrage
> comes from inside the confessional booth:
>
> “You did WHAT?!? You freed Iuz AND Zuggtmoy?!?! BOTH?!?”
> Robilar shrugged. “I didn't say I was proud of it.”

For the first time in his career the acolyte could not give his blessing, for his heart burst on the spot. “Yurh-aghhh, uhhhhh...,” was all that Lord Robilar heard. He stood and walked from the cathedral and proceeded down an alley.

As Robilar walked he thought of the changed times, mostly about his old—no, he meant “earlier,” nope, it was “old”--friends and enemies. It was all so very strange.

Tenser was reported dead. His one time friend and later his staunchest enemy. Strange. And they claimed he had committed the foul deed. Certainly not without a bit of talk and torture first, he thought. Not even in his blackest moods of those days would he have dispatched such a highly regarded foe without first talking to him, bragging and claiming how much more powerful he was, and all that. After all. He was a villain.

Then Mordenkainen: There had been sporadic murmurs from every wizard he’d met and questioned about the Circle of Eight. How it was now Five, or six on sundays when the old circle members made in effigy a scarecrow likeness of Rary, which was thereafter pummeled by those cudgel wielding priests he disliked so much. But word of Mordenkainen was nowhere to be heard. It was as if he’d disappeared into the mist of fairy. Where were you old friend?

Of course Otto remained, helping and guiding him from afar. But even his pudgy old helper seemed to lack the verve of yester-year. These days his dance was more like a shuffle and he squeaked out the accompanying lines to his ditties. Poor Otto. Once so vibrant and alive. How could this be?

And then there were the other odd facts: That Terik was his brother. Well yes, brother in arms, not blood brother. And what about the Rary affair. Oh, he would redress that upon arriving in Greyhawk. And then the other rumors of the many atrocities he’d supposedly committed with that foul snake of a wizard, Rary. It was as if the Gods had beguiled Greyhawk in his abscence, cast a confusion on the very minds and souls of the populace. It was strange, and he’d get to the bottom of this. At least he had Quij, still. He looked about him.

“Quij?” Confound it! He’d left him outside the cathedral and the orc had probably wandered off. That was not so good since they were in Veluna. Lord Robilar retraced his steps to the Cathedral…

To be contionued?

Rob

---
Garden of the Plantmaster, by Rob Kuntz, is available at: http://WWW.HYPERBOOKS.COM/
---
Suport your local *Troll*. A slick, professional RPG magazine offering in-depth articles, modules/game-aids usable in *all* campaign settings, fiction, reviews. Issue #1: *Worlds Within* (my column): “The Return of Greyhawk?” & “Ice Grave,” a World of Kalibruhn module. Subscriptions: Rick Stalder, Eclipse@uit.net

Re: Robilar out of the ashes?

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:33:07 +000
Reply-To: rjkuntz@gci-net.com
From: rjkuntz
Organization: Creations Unlimited
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Robilar out of the ashes?
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

SCOTT CASPER wrote:
>
> Hello again.
>
> I have been following the recent Robilar thread with interest, as
> Rary the Traitor didn’t work for me either. Dek has very well summed
> up the Robilar-as-clone theory, and I agree that this would solve the
> problem of all of Otto and Tenser’s clones being killed in so short a
> time. However, both Otto and Tenser are alive and well in my version
> of Oerth, and can’t understand what all this fuss is about.

That’s a point. Gamers come in many forms and use the products as offered in different ways. What might seem of less concern to us is a concern to TSR for marketing reasons, and thus content must be balanced. As an example, modules are used in at least three general ways. There are others, but consider these from TSR’s eventual concern:

1) As offered. Use is consistent with the published guides.
2) As parts for creative use within the campaign (maps, monsters, spells, N-PCs, etc.). DMs extract what is needed by ignore the rest.
3) As extracts for other campaigns (FR, etc).

Notes.

1. This is mainly one-off stuff or for the literal-minded, general gamers who do not seriously follow the campaign but like the material none-the-less. Collectors as opposed to serious gamers.

2. Mainstay. These are the types (like us) who have ignored the pattern as set forth and have thrust out on our own creative endeavors, as any good DM should. These purchasers usually desire more and better in from published offerings. This is doubly true now that GH has sustained itself after so many years and the creativity of this list is at its peak. This should be TSR’s main market thrust area, types such as us.

3. Overlap community. This is apparent in two ways, one outspoken, the other less obvious but there.

A. The Dragon’s editor, Dave Gross, has stated a desire for GH articles. However, his preference is for those that overlap into other game worlds that now exist, thus making them useable across a greater scale of Dragon’s readership. This does not allow for historical development and, for #2 above, much delineated treatments beyond the norm (spells, items, monsters, etc). This is more non-campaign specific, and I assume that this stated need would be assumed by TSR to work in reverse (folks using GH as a template would raid ideas from FR articles, etc.).

B. TSR’s announcement of published offerings of this as well. TOH and Return of the 8. These are easily one-off adventures which [Text missing]

TSR’s problem at resurrecting a setting(s) that have been so long in hiatus. By looking at the old modules one would not get the idea of how far Greyhawk has come after its initial death. Nor does The Dragon reflect this period of quality and quantity as well. Discussion groups of this sort have amassed great amounts of material which are overlooked from TSR’s point of view for possible expression within published form.

MY concern: This state of affairs—hiatus--> resurrection--> attempting to instill new ideas as garnered over the years from fan commitment to GH—will not properly entice “new blood” which is needed to expand the line, both in content and in form, for less offerings of the interesting sort will be published within this expanding scenario. Until TSR feels good about the GH market, simple offerings will be the staple and great concepts, like the Robilar one and many others, such as the Suel Barbarian Project, etc., will be marginalized. This is my opinion only, of course. Much might change once TSR relearns what the phrase “valued consumer” means.

Remedies: Write, Write, Write letters to Dragon and to Harold Johnson. Keep the pressure on them. And keep on enjoying what we do in between!

Robilar