Showing posts with label Temple of Elemental Evil. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Temple of Elemental Evil. Show all posts
Thursday, February 19, 2015
Sunday, October 10, 2010
RE: Sorta Off-Topic: Political Intrigue?
RE: [greytalk] Sorta Off-topic: Political Intrigue?
Wednesday, August 8, 2007 1:25 PM
From: "Karl White"Add sender to Contacts
To: basiliv@cablespeed.com, "'GREYTALK'"
You may want to look at Atlas Games’ Dynasties and Demagogues sourcebook. It contains a lot of material about creating and running political adventures and campaigns.
In the last campaign I ran, ToEE and beyond that started from 1st level, I mapped out the main protagonists and power groups in advance. This included:
· The deities
· The leaders of the temple
· The power groups in Hommlet and Nulb
· The wider Verbobonc power groups and the regional groups.
Having read through the module several times I started to ask how and why the leaders had the powerful magic items they had, how they interacted with each other, what their operational responsibilities and reporting lines were, any relationships and so on and so forth. I found that once I started asking questions and providing answers, that the richness of the setting increased dramatically.
In the end I had about 15 different power groups that the party were interacting with either directly or indirectly in a way that shaped events in the game. In many cases an event occurred that the party had no knowledge of and would not come directly into play but would affect the campaign.
For example The bandit group at the start were concentrating on attacking Elven caravans rather than human ones. This was due to their leader’s wish to have Celene’s relations with Verbobonc sour and to close the border. The humans, not losing many caravans did not put a great deal of effort into stopping them. Meanwhile the spy leader who reports to the Temple is aware that the caravans he is identifying as good targets are not always being taken, whilst more well defended, lower value targets are being targeted. He knows another intelligence agency must be at work to pick the targets and would normally think that there is a subversive element in the Temple and root it out, but he is also aware that somebody else has been promoted and has responsiblity for recruiting for the temple, which is a role he used to be tasked with. He is now unsure of his position and is wondering if he has disappointed his masters. By the party driving off/capturing/killing the Bandit leader, the trade caravans resume their normal targeting and the relations between Celene and Verbobonc resume as Verbobonc takes a greater interest in the loss of its caravans.
The party found that they had more trouble from the good factions than the evil. They broke a Gnomish Law (in my campaign I had Verbobonc originally owned by the Gnomes and thus the laws are derived from Gnomish Law) and the St Cuthbertines were insisting the law was enforced whilst the Druids, rangers and state (through the wizard) were pleased the party had driven off the bandits and did not think that exiling them for something that was in their eyes merely a (serious) protocol mishap was the wisest course of action. Things were very tense for a while until the bandit leader killed the druid leader and the family of the rangers leader, then it got worse. The rangers went after the bandit leader thereby abandoning their post (it took many weeks to catch him and left the rangers weakened and in the Wild Coast) and the St Cuthbertines took control of the village so that the rule of law could be re-established. The party was exiled and the village was poorly defended and severe political in-fighting between the church, state and the Gnomes throughout Verbobonc occurred. Eventually leading to full Gnomish autonomy when the state found the only way to appease the church was to change some ‘out-dated Gnomish Laws’.
Why did the party have such an impact when they were only mid level? Look at the demographics of the state. With the Greyhawk demographics including population by level and class it turns out there are very few mid-level character classes and the party would be a significant resource for the state in its fight against the Temple. With the rangers gone, exiling the party would have left the Hommlet region very exposed to the now apparent Temple.
I guess my final point is, look at the background population, there may be fewer personalities than you would consider and the players can soon have a major impact if they are in the nation’s top 50 most powerful people
From: basiliv@cablespeed.com [mailto:basiliv@cablespeed.com]
Sent: 07 August 2007 19:40
To: GREYTALK
Subject: Re: [greytalk] Sorta Off-topic: Political Intrigue?
The level is flexible; for one group, they'll be somewhere between 7-10th (depending on where I put it in the campaign), for the other the level will be wide open because we'll roll up new characters just for this. The 7-10th level group is very familiar with my DMing style, the other group is not yet...although I could run them through some more standard fair if it's an advantage for the players to be familiar first.
My long-time players tend to like an overarching mystery, interspersed with fairly "standard" dungeon crawls, city adventures, or overland action. For an example of our usual style of play, here's a list of the adventures I strung together to get my PCs to 6th level, with an overarching mystery I described earlier, set in the original '83 boxed set:
- Intro to my amnesia/alternate Greyhawks campaign, starting in a cave south of Hommlet.
- Mad God's Key (Dungeon Adventure), changed to a cult of Orcus
- An altered version of Dungeon's "Shut-In", with a xvart culprit to lead to:
- An altered version of Mona's River of Blood, set in Verbobonc
- T1: Village of Hommlet
- Some overland travel to an oracle in Perrenland, then south through the Vesve for a small incursion into Delvenbrass, where a gate lead to:
- The City Beyond the Gate
- Returning from this adventure, the party is transported unknowingly to an alternate, FtA-era Oerth, where the overrun city of Chendl surprises them.
- Overland travel to Safeton, where eventually the party locates their secret contact. This shadow-dancer takes them to the Plane of Shadow, and eventually back to 576-era Oerth.
- They follow a priest of Iuz south across Woolly Bay, and I ran them through Stormwrack's "Shatterhull Isle"
- C1: Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan
- West to the base of the Hellfurnaces, where they discovered the lost Suloise city of Lov Ulos, which served as one end of the tunnels in:
- UK6: All That Glitters
The over-arching mystery was covered in more detail months ago, but a quick recap is that the PCs were brought here from the FtA-era 'Hawk, their memories wiped out, and now they're seeking the ochtycs (?sp)...they don't know if yet, but they used to be demigods, and the ochtycs will allow them to regain a portion of their power and eventually go after the Soul Husks to take Iuz down a notch.
Once the party reached the Sea of Dust (at the end of All That Glitters), we switched DMs, so that's where things currently stand. My next plan is some interaction with the Silent Ones of Keoland, some information-brokering with an agent of Evard, a trip through White Plume Mountain, and eventually the ToEE. At this point I haven't decided whether to make the Great Kingdom material before or after the ToEE.
On Mon Aug 6 17:03 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonzᬥz" sent:
What level will the characters start? Are the players experienced in general and with your DMing? Please describe your usual style of play / DMing.
MTG
basiliv@cablespeed.com wrote:
Hi MTG (and kiddies),
Didn't really have any plans yet. I thought I'd try my hand at some general political intrigue adventures, then re-read Ivid for ideas. My group has swapped DMs for a while, so I've got a lot more down-time to work on this than I'd usually have. In the meantime, my plan was to read through Scott's South Province reports (sadly, I never had time to read them before -- sorry Scott!). I also thought about looking into the reviews of some Birthright adventures, but that's a guess on my part.
But in general, I was hoping for more guidance on the pacing of this type of adventure, interesting ways for PCs to use skills that might be unique to a political environment, etc. (that's why I thought it was off-topic). Plotting our the political entanglements isn't where I'm worried, it's running a new type of adventure and keeping it interesting for the players. But once I get this figured out, I'll be more than happy to share. :-)
Thanks again for your help!
~Jim (Basiliv)
On Fri Aug 3 20:23 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonz�lez" sent:
Jim and fellow GTers,
I apologize for not sending this email earlier as I'd hoped.
Jim, I suggest you provide a few more details. Where you base your initial campaign is important for helping us provide further suggestions.
For example, I've imagined a campaign based in North Province that deals with the ramifications of Grenell's machinations regarding the fall of Bone March, starting in one of the coastal towns, Bellport, for example, and developing the PCs' knowledge about Grenell's miscalculation / betrayal, along with the Iron Schism, as it plays out with the church armies of Hextor, that center of training for Hextor sohei (Arrowstrand?), and featuring the distaff death knight that Gary Holian detailed.
Alternatively, Scottenkainen has reported repeatedly on his campaigns in the South Province.
Do you get my drift? Share more of your ideas, so we can riff off yours.
MTG
Wednesday, August 8, 2007 1:25 PM
From: "Karl White"
To: basiliv@cablespeed.com, "'GREYTALK'"
You may want to look at Atlas Games’ Dynasties and Demagogues sourcebook. It contains a lot of material about creating and running political adventures and campaigns.
In the last campaign I ran, ToEE and beyond that started from 1st level, I mapped out the main protagonists and power groups in advance. This included:
· The deities
· The leaders of the temple
· The power groups in Hommlet and Nulb
· The wider Verbobonc power groups and the regional groups.
Having read through the module several times I started to ask how and why the leaders had the powerful magic items they had, how they interacted with each other, what their operational responsibilities and reporting lines were, any relationships and so on and so forth. I found that once I started asking questions and providing answers, that the richness of the setting increased dramatically.
In the end I had about 15 different power groups that the party were interacting with either directly or indirectly in a way that shaped events in the game. In many cases an event occurred that the party had no knowledge of and would not come directly into play but would affect the campaign.
For example The bandit group at the start were concentrating on attacking Elven caravans rather than human ones. This was due to their leader’s wish to have Celene’s relations with Verbobonc sour and to close the border. The humans, not losing many caravans did not put a great deal of effort into stopping them. Meanwhile the spy leader who reports to the Temple is aware that the caravans he is identifying as good targets are not always being taken, whilst more well defended, lower value targets are being targeted. He knows another intelligence agency must be at work to pick the targets and would normally think that there is a subversive element in the Temple and root it out, but he is also aware that somebody else has been promoted and has responsiblity for recruiting for the temple, which is a role he used to be tasked with. He is now unsure of his position and is wondering if he has disappointed his masters. By the party driving off/capturing/killing the Bandit leader, the trade caravans resume their normal targeting and the relations between Celene and Verbobonc resume as Verbobonc takes a greater interest in the loss of its caravans.
The party found that they had more trouble from the good factions than the evil. They broke a Gnomish Law (in my campaign I had Verbobonc originally owned by the Gnomes and thus the laws are derived from Gnomish Law) and the St Cuthbertines were insisting the law was enforced whilst the Druids, rangers and state (through the wizard) were pleased the party had driven off the bandits and did not think that exiling them for something that was in their eyes merely a (serious) protocol mishap was the wisest course of action. Things were very tense for a while until the bandit leader killed the druid leader and the family of the rangers leader, then it got worse. The rangers went after the bandit leader thereby abandoning their post (it took many weeks to catch him and left the rangers weakened and in the Wild Coast) and the St Cuthbertines took control of the village so that the rule of law could be re-established. The party was exiled and the village was poorly defended and severe political in-fighting between the church, state and the Gnomes throughout Verbobonc occurred. Eventually leading to full Gnomish autonomy when the state found the only way to appease the church was to change some ‘out-dated Gnomish Laws’.
Why did the party have such an impact when they were only mid level? Look at the demographics of the state. With the Greyhawk demographics including population by level and class it turns out there are very few mid-level character classes and the party would be a significant resource for the state in its fight against the Temple. With the rangers gone, exiling the party would have left the Hommlet region very exposed to the now apparent Temple.
I guess my final point is, look at the background population, there may be fewer personalities than you would consider and the players can soon have a major impact if they are in the nation’s top 50 most powerful people
From: basiliv@cablespeed.com [mailto:basiliv@cablespeed.com]
Sent: 07 August 2007 19:40
To: GREYTALK
Subject: Re: [greytalk] Sorta Off-topic: Political Intrigue?
The level is flexible; for one group, they'll be somewhere between 7-10th (depending on where I put it in the campaign), for the other the level will be wide open because we'll roll up new characters just for this. The 7-10th level group is very familiar with my DMing style, the other group is not yet...although I could run them through some more standard fair if it's an advantage for the players to be familiar first.
My long-time players tend to like an overarching mystery, interspersed with fairly "standard" dungeon crawls, city adventures, or overland action. For an example of our usual style of play, here's a list of the adventures I strung together to get my PCs to 6th level, with an overarching mystery I described earlier, set in the original '83 boxed set:
- Intro to my amnesia/alternate Greyhawks campaign, starting in a cave south of Hommlet.
- Mad God's Key (Dungeon Adventure), changed to a cult of Orcus
- An altered version of Dungeon's "Shut-In", with a xvart culprit to lead to:
- An altered version of Mona's River of Blood, set in Verbobonc
- T1: Village of Hommlet
- Some overland travel to an oracle in Perrenland, then south through the Vesve for a small incursion into Delvenbrass, where a gate lead to:
- The City Beyond the Gate
- Returning from this adventure, the party is transported unknowingly to an alternate, FtA-era Oerth, where the overrun city of Chendl surprises them.
- Overland travel to Safeton, where eventually the party locates their secret contact. This shadow-dancer takes them to the Plane of Shadow, and eventually back to 576-era Oerth.
- They follow a priest of Iuz south across Woolly Bay, and I ran them through Stormwrack's "Shatterhull Isle"
- C1: Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan
- West to the base of the Hellfurnaces, where they discovered the lost Suloise city of Lov Ulos, which served as one end of the tunnels in:
- UK6: All That Glitters
The over-arching mystery was covered in more detail months ago, but a quick recap is that the PCs were brought here from the FtA-era 'Hawk, their memories wiped out, and now they're seeking the ochtycs (?sp)...they don't know if yet, but they used to be demigods, and the ochtycs will allow them to regain a portion of their power and eventually go after the Soul Husks to take Iuz down a notch.
Once the party reached the Sea of Dust (at the end of All That Glitters), we switched DMs, so that's where things currently stand. My next plan is some interaction with the Silent Ones of Keoland, some information-brokering with an agent of Evard, a trip through White Plume Mountain, and eventually the ToEE. At this point I haven't decided whether to make the Great Kingdom material before or after the ToEE.
On Mon Aug 6 17:03 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonzᬥz" sent:
What level will the characters start? Are the players experienced in general and with your DMing? Please describe your usual style of play / DMing.
MTG
basiliv@cablespeed.com wrote:
Hi MTG (and kiddies),
Didn't really have any plans yet. I thought I'd try my hand at some general political intrigue adventures, then re-read Ivid for ideas. My group has swapped DMs for a while, so I've got a lot more down-time to work on this than I'd usually have. In the meantime, my plan was to read through Scott's South Province reports (sadly, I never had time to read them before -- sorry Scott!). I also thought about looking into the reviews of some Birthright adventures, but that's a guess on my part.
But in general, I was hoping for more guidance on the pacing of this type of adventure, interesting ways for PCs to use skills that might be unique to a political environment, etc. (that's why I thought it was off-topic). Plotting our the political entanglements isn't where I'm worried, it's running a new type of adventure and keeping it interesting for the players. But once I get this figured out, I'll be more than happy to share. :-)
Thanks again for your help!
~Jim (Basiliv)
On Fri Aug 3 20:23 , Marc-Tizoc "Gonz�lez" sent:
Jim and fellow GTers,
I apologize for not sending this email earlier as I'd hoped.
Jim, I suggest you provide a few more details. Where you base your initial campaign is important for helping us provide further suggestions.
For example, I've imagined a campaign based in North Province that deals with the ramifications of Grenell's machinations regarding the fall of Bone March, starting in one of the coastal towns, Bellport, for example, and developing the PCs' knowledge about Grenell's miscalculation / betrayal, along with the Iron Schism, as it plays out with the church armies of Hextor, that center of training for Hextor sohei (Arrowstrand?), and featuring the distaff death knight that Gary Holian detailed.
Alternatively, Scottenkainen has reported repeatedly on his campaigns in the South Province.
Do you get my drift? Share more of your ideas, so we can riff off yours.
MTG
Monday, July 19, 2010
Re: Greyhawk Timeline
From bramo@svg.na.no Wed Oct 25 07:46:39 1995
To: Gregory Bernath
Cc: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1065
X-Lines: 24
Status: RO
On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gregory Bernath wrote:
> Okay, here's the problem.
> Iuz was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk from 505 - 570.
> The Battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple was in 569.
> Yet _The Temple of Elemental Evil_ states that Iuz was free and
> active during the fall of the temple. So, we have a contradiction.
> In _Iuz the Evil_, we find that Iuz only learns of the fall of the
> Temple after his release. This would imply that TOEE is incorrect,
> and that Iuz was still imprisoned when the Temple fell.
> So, for the sake of continuity, you either have to remove Iuz's
> involvement in TOEE, or change the the dates around so that Emridy
> Meadows happens after the release of Iuz.
>
> Anyways, I was curious whether anyone has come up with any other
> solutions.
I pondered this one also, and I think I have come up with the solution:
The battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple in CY 569 must have been THE FIRST fall of the temple. Since, in ToEE, the temple already has been sacked and Tzuggtmoy imprisoned.
To: Gregory Bernath
Cc: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1065
X-Lines: 24
Status: RO
On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gregory Bernath wrote:
> Okay, here's the problem.
> Iuz was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk from 505 - 570.
> The Battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple was in 569.
> Yet _The Temple of Elemental Evil_ states that Iuz was free and
> active during the fall of the temple. So, we have a contradiction.
> In _Iuz the Evil_, we find that Iuz only learns of the fall of the
> Temple after his release. This would imply that TOEE is incorrect,
> and that Iuz was still imprisoned when the Temple fell.
> So, for the sake of continuity, you either have to remove Iuz's
> involvement in TOEE, or change the the dates around so that Emridy
> Meadows happens after the release of Iuz.
>
> Anyways, I was curious whether anyone has come up with any other
> solutions.
I pondered this one also, and I think I have come up with the solution:
The battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple in CY 569 must have been THE FIRST fall of the temple. Since, in ToEE, the temple already has been sacked and Tzuggtmoy imprisoned.
Saturday, February 14, 2009
Zuggtmoy Free! (was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)
Date sent: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:09:17 -0700
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: Jason Verbitsky JV@BC.SYMPATICO.CA
Subject: [GREYTALK] Zuggtmoy Free! (Was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Joseph Barrios wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-09-10 08:19:09 EDT, you write:
>
> << From reading the atlas of From the Ashes, it appears to have been [year missing]
> CY, one year before Iuz was released from his imprisonment in Castle
> Greyhawk.
> Eric >>
>
> I do not believe this is correct. 569 CY was the year when the Battle of
> Emridy Meadows occurred…the year in which Zuggtmoy was imprisoned. The
> Prince of Veluna wasn't kidnapped until 573….and the Temple of Elemental
> Evil module has the PC's finding him in the Temple disguised as a dead
> vampire.
>
> For anyone who is tuning in just now, the question is: in what year was the
> Temple sacked and the demonness Zuggtmoy freed? (In other words, what year
> was the TOEE module set in?) I'm starting a Greyhawk campaign and want
> the module in the proper year.
The Mother of all Mushrooms was most probably freed c. CY 579-580 by Rob and/or Iggwilv. As Zuggtmoy had to be free to attack Anthraxus in the Hall of Dread in Molag in Artifact of Evil (p.234) and Iggwilv takes credit for freeing her (p.330) when these two 'lovely' ladies show up to see Iuz.
The tireless researches of the good Savant Iquander, based on the internal evidence in Gygax's Gord novels, has dated what I call the 'Catastrophe Krebalsthorp' where Nerull et. Al were 'banished' to Reaping CY 580, and the siege/fall of the Molag to Goodmonth (Summer) CY 580. As ol' Zugs assault upon Anthraxus occurred in between these two events it would be late Reaping 580. So as for her freedom, late 579 at the very earliest and mid 580 (summer Reaping) at the latest seem reasonable dates. At least that is what I'm going with (for now).
Again, though, as I asked in my previous message (“Zuggtmoy's Freedom: Robilar, Iggwilv, or Both? (Date?)”) :
Was it Robilar or Iggwilv (AoE 330) that was responsible for freeing Zuggtmoy from the Temple of Elemental Evil? Or were they somehow involved? What is the real story here? And what was the exact date of this historic event? Robilar? EGG? Anyone?
Which version is correct? Or are they both? Is Iggwilv taking credit for Robilar's work? Did Robilar throw the pillar at Iggwilv? What really happened? And when?
I'd like to know how this all came about. Did Iggwilv somehow manipulate (perhaps provoke would be a better word?) Robilar into throwing the pillar at the doors? Maybe the old projected image trick combined with a bit of suggestive taunting?
I've appended the relevant quotes to this message after my sig.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
His Dread and Awful Presence,
Jason Verbitsky
JV@bc.sympatico.ca
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/JV/INDEX.HTM
The Robilar Side (taken from the Greyhawk Grimoire: Sage.txt):
<< On page 29, of the Temple of Elemental Evil (T1-4), middle of page, [number missing], there is mentioned a “sharp check dealt Lolth”. Since the Temple Series adventure is before the Giants, and Queen of Spiders, series – what sharp check is this? >>
#012 ANSWERS
...
Gary Gygax: Robilar inadvertantly freed Zuggtmoy by using his girdle of storm giant strength to toss a piller through the doors of her prison. She, in delight carried him off to the Abyss so he could be one her most trusted servants. Robilar blanched at this, and managed to get back to the PMP. That took some time, though, and when he got back to the temple area he found his faithful orc “hero” Quij, warm and snug, having made a poncho of Robilar's flying carpet. You got it right, though. When Zugg'y showed up again down there, Lolth's plans for greater grandure were generally squelched.
The Iggwilv Side (Gary Gygax's Artifact of Evil page 330):
Iggwilv, speaking to her son Iuz, says:
“You are wanting information. Well then, attend Me. It was a near thing, for those soft nd stupid ones who ooppose the true order of things came in their multitudes. Despite their mewling attempts, I found and freed Dear Lady Zuggtmoy.”
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: Jason Verbitsky JV@BC.SYMPATICO.CA
Subject: [GREYTALK] Zuggtmoy Free! (Was Re: Greyhawk Trivia questions)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Joseph Barrios wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-09-10 08:19:09 EDT, you write:
>
> << From reading the atlas of From the Ashes, it appears to have been [year missing]
> CY, one year before Iuz was released from his imprisonment in Castle
> Greyhawk.
> Eric >>
>
> I do not believe this is correct. 569 CY was the year when the Battle of
> Emridy Meadows occurred…the year in which Zuggtmoy was imprisoned. The
> Prince of Veluna wasn't kidnapped until 573….and the Temple of Elemental
> Evil module has the PC's finding him in the Temple disguised as a dead
> vampire.
>
> For anyone who is tuning in just now, the question is: in what year was the
> Temple sacked and the demonness Zuggtmoy freed? (In other words, what year
> was the TOEE module set in?) I'm starting a Greyhawk campaign and want
> the module in the proper year.
The Mother of all Mushrooms was most probably freed c. CY 579-580 by Rob and/or Iggwilv. As Zuggtmoy had to be free to attack Anthraxus in the Hall of Dread in Molag in Artifact of Evil (p.234) and Iggwilv takes credit for freeing her (p.330) when these two 'lovely' ladies show up to see Iuz.
The tireless researches of the good Savant Iquander, based on the internal evidence in Gygax's Gord novels, has dated what I call the 'Catastrophe Krebalsthorp' where Nerull et. Al were 'banished' to Reaping CY 580, and the siege/fall of the Molag to Goodmonth (Summer) CY 580. As ol' Zugs assault upon Anthraxus occurred in between these two events it would be late Reaping 580. So as for her freedom, late 579 at the very earliest and mid 580 (summer Reaping) at the latest seem reasonable dates. At least that is what I'm going with (for now).
Again, though, as I asked in my previous message (“Zuggtmoy's Freedom: Robilar, Iggwilv, or Both? (Date?)”) :
Was it Robilar or Iggwilv (AoE 330) that was responsible for freeing Zuggtmoy from the Temple of Elemental Evil? Or were they somehow involved? What is the real story here? And what was the exact date of this historic event? Robilar? EGG? Anyone?
Which version is correct? Or are they both? Is Iggwilv taking credit for Robilar's work? Did Robilar throw the pillar at Iggwilv? What really happened? And when?
I'd like to know how this all came about. Did Iggwilv somehow manipulate (perhaps provoke would be a better word?) Robilar into throwing the pillar at the doors? Maybe the old projected image trick combined with a bit of suggestive taunting?
I've appended the relevant quotes to this message after my sig.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
His Dread and Awful Presence,
Jason Verbitsky
JV@bc.sympatico.ca
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/JV/INDEX.HTM
The Robilar Side (taken from the Greyhawk Grimoire: Sage.txt):
<< On page 29, of the Temple of Elemental Evil (T1-4), middle of page, [number missing], there is mentioned a “sharp check dealt Lolth”. Since the Temple Series adventure is before the Giants, and Queen of Spiders, series – what sharp check is this? >>
#012 ANSWERS
...
Gary Gygax: Robilar inadvertantly freed Zuggtmoy by using his girdle of storm giant strength to toss a piller through the doors of her prison. She, in delight carried him off to the Abyss so he could be one her most trusted servants. Robilar blanched at this, and managed to get back to the PMP. That took some time, though, and when he got back to the temple area he found his faithful orc “hero” Quij, warm and snug, having made a poncho of Robilar's flying carpet. You got it right, though. When Zugg'y showed up again down there, Lolth's plans for greater grandure were generally squelched.
The Iggwilv Side (Gary Gygax's Artifact of Evil page 330):
Iggwilv, speaking to her son Iuz, says:
“You are wanting information. Well then, attend Me. It was a near thing, for those soft nd stupid ones who ooppose the true order of things came in their multitudes. Despite their mewling attempts, I found and freed Dear Lady Zuggtmoy.”
Sunday, December 14, 2008
Co8 and the disappearing Prince
Subject: [GREYTALK] Co8 and the disappearing Prince
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:46:18 -0600
From: John C Wright
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Here is a prelude to my upcoming module that is midway in its completion. Hope
you all enjoy and I look forward to any constructive criticisms.
John Wright
********************************************************************************
Adventure Background: Several decades ago, in the late 570's, a temple of great evil arose again within the Flannaess. This 'Temple of Elemental Evil' had been vanquished once before, but as is often the case, the evil only lay dormant long enough for the forces of good to forget and turn an errant eye on the
area.
During this time the young son of King Belvor IV of Furyondy became betrothed to the daughter of the leader of Veluna. Their marriage would unite both kingdoms, and young Thrommel would become the leader of all matters temporal, while his wife would lead the united kingdoms in all matters spiritual. This would be a great blow to not only the forces of evil in the Flannaess, but it would greatly disrupt the balance. Good would hold sway over most lands, and the extra power garnered by the union of Furyondy and Veluna could likely bring about an age of unparalleled peace and prosperity. Mordenkainen, great sorcerer of the Citadel and Circle of Eight, was both an advocate of and defender of the 'Balance.' He firmly believed that with the rise of the Furyondy/Veluna kingdom, that although peace and good would reign for a time, the metaphysical representation of the balance would induce a cataclysm every bit the equal of the 'Invoked Devastation' or the 'Rain of Colorless Fire.' It was then that he began his plan to prevent this supposed cataclysm.
Mordenkainen turned to his colleagues in the Circle of Eight, and explained to them his beliefs. For the most part they all listened objectively, and in many cases nodded their agreement. All save one that is. Tenser had long been a proponent that the Circle should promote and work for good, not hinder it as it would evil forces in an effort to maintain the balance. Tenser argued long and hard against his colleagues, but on the third day of argument they called the matter to a vote. Right before the voting occurred, Mordenkainen spoke to him. "Tenser, we have been friends for years. We have studied many of the same magicks, learned under some of the same sources. We have long been close friends and trusted each other with our lives. Trust me in this, I know what is proper to do here. I would never mislead you and I would do nothing like this unless I knew it was warranted and there was no other way."
Tenser was swayed by the argument, and when the vote occurred, no one opposed it. The Circle began plans then on how best to bring about their result. Ideas of fomenting dissent and possibly war between the two kingdoms were heard, but to these Tenser vehemently refused to even hear more of. If good were to be dealt a blow, he wanted it isolated to a few individuals of power, rather than to a common populace at large.
Finally a plan was arrived at, the Circle would allow a subversive group they had heard of recently, in on the movements of Prince Thrommel, and entice them with a large offer of monetary reward to kidnap him. The Circle never mentioned who they were and worked through intermediaries to supply the Scarlet Brotherhood then with the means to penetrate the courts of Furyondy and spirit away Thrommel. When the agents of the Brotherhood had captured Thrommel, they were to meet with an agent of the Circle in the small village of Hommlet.
The Scarlet Brotherhood agents were successful, and quickly made it to Hommlet, easily evading even the best magical searches due to their high-powered help from the Circle. When the kidnappers reached Hommlet, Mordenkainen (disguised as a simple traveler), passed on to them the fee for their mission well done. The Scarlet Brotherhood agents smiled as they checked the payment, and then mentioned how nice it would be to receive not only this one payment, but a ransom as well. Mordenkain was furious at this betrayal, and quickly attacked the treacherous agents.
Thrommel took this one chance at escape and broke his bindings and sprinted away. An agent of the Brotherhood, seeing the Prince (and his payment) disappearing before his eyes, leveled a crossbow and fired. The bolt flew straight and drove into the Prince's spine. Thrommel collapsed, and then Mordenkainen's spells incinerated the last of the Brotherhood men.
Mordenkainen rushed over to the fallen Prince, and sighed when he saw how pale and deathly the Prince looked. As the Prince's life-blood flowed out Mordenkainen realized that the only way to save the Prince's life was a spell he had memorized in advance. Reaching down to the Prince, Mordenkainen lifted Thrommel's hand and examined the ring on his finger. Nodding in satisfaction, Mordenkainen etched something into the gem set on the ring and then began to chant. The Prince moaned weakly, and then gasped as a filmy white apparition of his body slipped free of his mortal confines and fell into the signet ring on his finger. Mordenkainen smiled grimly, his plan had not come off as cleanly as he would have preferred. Prying the gem from the ring, Mordenkainen then pocketed it, and standing he looked about. Nodding silently to himself, he then uttered a word and vanished from sight.
Several days later, brigands from the 'Temple of Elemental Evil' came across the bodies and proceeded to loot them. One item of note was an expensive signet ring bearing the heraldic symbol of Furyondy. It would be claimed by one of the higher priests down inside the temples dungeons and would remain there for a little while to come.
Later in the year though, a warlord by the name of Robilar came to Hommlet. He had heard of the missing adventurers and the rumors of not only evil, but of buried treasure. Not wanting to miss out on any sort of wealth, he proceeded into the temple, and laid waste to all who opposed him for two solid days. Reaching the lowest levels of the temple, Robilar had an insight into freeing yet another being of power (the reasons behind Robilar's being nearby in almost all cases of imprisoned deities/demon-lords breaking free still astounds many, perhaps he wasn't there by chance, but came with the express intent of freeing Zuggtmoy). Needless to say, after freeing the Fungi Queen, Robilar continued his looting, until he realized that the forces of good, led by Tenser and several wizards of the Eight, had come a calling. Fleeing before their superior forces, he was forced to return to his home, where he was laid siege too. Finally, he and his few men escaped, but not before leaving behind much of the looted treasure. It is here that Tenser found an interesting item. When detecting for magic, he noted one ring seemed to glimmer slightly, and lifting it carefully he noted the symbol of the Furyondy kings. He also noticed the missing gemstone, and immediately broke off helping those gathered sack Robilar's keep. Returning to his own fortress Tenser began to investigate the ring and discovered much of the previous background. His heart was heavy, for he had given his aid to this plan, but he still did not feel comfortable with it. Locking the ring deep within his fortress's vaults, Tenser tried to forget, and did so for several years, before his untimely death at the end of the Greyhawk Wars.
Now it is a little over a year since events of the Return of the Eight, and Tenser is now a solid proponent for good. He has broken from the Circle of Eight and does not believe in their goals anymore. He has seen the heart of evil, and knows that he will oppose it now with all the force he can bring to bear. Now it is time to right one of the wrongs he was involved in, for there is nothing worse than having your body tormented, other than having your soul twisted and broken.
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:46:18 -0600
From: John C Wright
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Here is a prelude to my upcoming module that is midway in its completion. Hope
you all enjoy and I look forward to any constructive criticisms.
John Wright
********************************************************************************
Adventure Background: Several decades ago, in the late 570's, a temple of great evil arose again within the Flannaess. This 'Temple of Elemental Evil' had been vanquished once before, but as is often the case, the evil only lay dormant long enough for the forces of good to forget and turn an errant eye on the
area.
During this time the young son of King Belvor IV of Furyondy became betrothed to the daughter of the leader of Veluna. Their marriage would unite both kingdoms, and young Thrommel would become the leader of all matters temporal, while his wife would lead the united kingdoms in all matters spiritual. This would be a great blow to not only the forces of evil in the Flannaess, but it would greatly disrupt the balance. Good would hold sway over most lands, and the extra power garnered by the union of Furyondy and Veluna could likely bring about an age of unparalleled peace and prosperity. Mordenkainen, great sorcerer of the Citadel and Circle of Eight, was both an advocate of and defender of the 'Balance.' He firmly believed that with the rise of the Furyondy/Veluna kingdom, that although peace and good would reign for a time, the metaphysical representation of the balance would induce a cataclysm every bit the equal of the 'Invoked Devastation' or the 'Rain of Colorless Fire.' It was then that he began his plan to prevent this supposed cataclysm.
Mordenkainen turned to his colleagues in the Circle of Eight, and explained to them his beliefs. For the most part they all listened objectively, and in many cases nodded their agreement. All save one that is. Tenser had long been a proponent that the Circle should promote and work for good, not hinder it as it would evil forces in an effort to maintain the balance. Tenser argued long and hard against his colleagues, but on the third day of argument they called the matter to a vote. Right before the voting occurred, Mordenkainen spoke to him. "Tenser, we have been friends for years. We have studied many of the same magicks, learned under some of the same sources. We have long been close friends and trusted each other with our lives. Trust me in this, I know what is proper to do here. I would never mislead you and I would do nothing like this unless I knew it was warranted and there was no other way."
Tenser was swayed by the argument, and when the vote occurred, no one opposed it. The Circle began plans then on how best to bring about their result. Ideas of fomenting dissent and possibly war between the two kingdoms were heard, but to these Tenser vehemently refused to even hear more of. If good were to be dealt a blow, he wanted it isolated to a few individuals of power, rather than to a common populace at large.
Finally a plan was arrived at, the Circle would allow a subversive group they had heard of recently, in on the movements of Prince Thrommel, and entice them with a large offer of monetary reward to kidnap him. The Circle never mentioned who they were and worked through intermediaries to supply the Scarlet Brotherhood then with the means to penetrate the courts of Furyondy and spirit away Thrommel. When the agents of the Brotherhood had captured Thrommel, they were to meet with an agent of the Circle in the small village of Hommlet.
The Scarlet Brotherhood agents were successful, and quickly made it to Hommlet, easily evading even the best magical searches due to their high-powered help from the Circle. When the kidnappers reached Hommlet, Mordenkainen (disguised as a simple traveler), passed on to them the fee for their mission well done. The Scarlet Brotherhood agents smiled as they checked the payment, and then mentioned how nice it would be to receive not only this one payment, but a ransom as well. Mordenkain was furious at this betrayal, and quickly attacked the treacherous agents.
Thrommel took this one chance at escape and broke his bindings and sprinted away. An agent of the Brotherhood, seeing the Prince (and his payment) disappearing before his eyes, leveled a crossbow and fired. The bolt flew straight and drove into the Prince's spine. Thrommel collapsed, and then Mordenkainen's spells incinerated the last of the Brotherhood men.
Mordenkainen rushed over to the fallen Prince, and sighed when he saw how pale and deathly the Prince looked. As the Prince's life-blood flowed out Mordenkainen realized that the only way to save the Prince's life was a spell he had memorized in advance. Reaching down to the Prince, Mordenkainen lifted Thrommel's hand and examined the ring on his finger. Nodding in satisfaction, Mordenkainen etched something into the gem set on the ring and then began to chant. The Prince moaned weakly, and then gasped as a filmy white apparition of his body slipped free of his mortal confines and fell into the signet ring on his finger. Mordenkainen smiled grimly, his plan had not come off as cleanly as he would have preferred. Prying the gem from the ring, Mordenkainen then pocketed it, and standing he looked about. Nodding silently to himself, he then uttered a word and vanished from sight.
Several days later, brigands from the 'Temple of Elemental Evil' came across the bodies and proceeded to loot them. One item of note was an expensive signet ring bearing the heraldic symbol of Furyondy. It would be claimed by one of the higher priests down inside the temples dungeons and would remain there for a little while to come.
Later in the year though, a warlord by the name of Robilar came to Hommlet. He had heard of the missing adventurers and the rumors of not only evil, but of buried treasure. Not wanting to miss out on any sort of wealth, he proceeded into the temple, and laid waste to all who opposed him for two solid days. Reaching the lowest levels of the temple, Robilar had an insight into freeing yet another being of power (the reasons behind Robilar's being nearby in almost all cases of imprisoned deities/demon-lords breaking free still astounds many, perhaps he wasn't there by chance, but came with the express intent of freeing Zuggtmoy). Needless to say, after freeing the Fungi Queen, Robilar continued his looting, until he realized that the forces of good, led by Tenser and several wizards of the Eight, had come a calling. Fleeing before their superior forces, he was forced to return to his home, where he was laid siege too. Finally, he and his few men escaped, but not before leaving behind much of the looted treasure. It is here that Tenser found an interesting item. When detecting for magic, he noted one ring seemed to glimmer slightly, and lifting it carefully he noted the symbol of the Furyondy kings. He also noticed the missing gemstone, and immediately broke off helping those gathered sack Robilar's keep. Returning to his own fortress Tenser began to investigate the ring and discovered much of the previous background. His heart was heavy, for he had given his aid to this plan, but he still did not feel comfortable with it. Locking the ring deep within his fortress's vaults, Tenser tried to forget, and did so for several years, before his untimely death at the end of the Greyhawk Wars.
Now it is a little over a year since events of the Return of the Eight, and Tenser is now a solid proponent for good. He has broken from the Circle of Eight and does not believe in their goals anymore. He has seen the heart of evil, and knows that he will oppose it now with all the force he can bring to bear. Now it is time to right one of the wrongs he was involved in, for there is nothing worse than having your body tormented, other than having your soul twisted and broken.
Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Re: Temple of Elemental Evil
Priority: Normal
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:22:12 -0400
Reply-To: Keith Horsefield
From: Keith Horsefield
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Temple of Elemental Evil
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Michael Gillis wrote:
>I am currently running a campaign in C.Y 580. As a long-time “resident” of
>Greyhawk, I have yet been able to introduce the Wars into my game.
However, I
>am leading my campaign into the Wars, albeit slowly. I am planning on
sending
>the members of my current group through the Temple of Elemental Evil.
Does
>the timeframe make sense – C.Y 580?
>
>I can find no references that would prohibit the Temple's inclusion in the
>time frame, but I am somewhat of a traditionalist. Help.
This was in the archives, but since I never received any response to [missing text?]
I'll post it again:
All the references are to pg. 5 T1-4.
Starting with the base date of 569 CY for the Battle of Emridy Meadows
Last paragraph 1st column
“For five years afterward, the village and the countryside have become richer and more prosperous than ever before.”
In this paragraph is the mention of the troll and how it was killed by some adventurers. After that adventurers continue to come but find nothing.
1st full paragraph, 2nd column:
“—and Hommlet continued its quiet existence for four years more.”
The beginning of this paragraph states that adventurers have stopped coming to the area.
2nd full paragraph, 2nd column:
“But then, a year ago, the bandits began to ride the roads again….”
From my reading of these 3 paragraphs there are 3 distinct periods after the Battle of Emridy Meadows for the village of Hommlet:
1) 5 years where adventurers continue to visit brought by wanderlust
2) 4 years where the village left in peace
3) 1 year of rising banditry
Therer, T1-4 is supposed to take place in 579 CY.
An alternate reading though might include some of the second time period
[Text missing]
Arguably this module could take place anywhere within the timeline of 575 – 579 CY dependent upon how close or how far the DM wants to be in relation to the Greyhawk Wars.
Now of course FtA mucks this all up cause Thrommel is still missing.
Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
E-mail: afn0945@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454/
Brought to you by OS/2 Warp & PMMail 1.53
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:22:12 -0400
Reply-To: Keith Horsefield
From: Keith Horsefield
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Temple of Elemental Evil
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Michael Gillis wrote:
>I am currently running a campaign in C.Y 580. As a long-time “resident” of
>Greyhawk, I have yet been able to introduce the Wars into my game.
However, I
>am leading my campaign into the Wars, albeit slowly. I am planning on
sending
>the members of my current group through the Temple of Elemental Evil.
Does
>the timeframe make sense – C.Y 580?
>
>I can find no references that would prohibit the Temple's inclusion in the
>time frame, but I am somewhat of a traditionalist. Help.
This was in the archives, but since I never received any response to [missing text?]
I'll post it again:
All the references are to pg. 5 T1-4.
Starting with the base date of 569 CY for the Battle of Emridy Meadows
Last paragraph 1st column
“For five years afterward, the village and the countryside have become richer and more prosperous than ever before.”
In this paragraph is the mention of the troll and how it was killed by some adventurers. After that adventurers continue to come but find nothing.
1st full paragraph, 2nd column:
“—and Hommlet continued its quiet existence for four years more.”
The beginning of this paragraph states that adventurers have stopped coming to the area.
2nd full paragraph, 2nd column:
“But then, a year ago, the bandits began to ride the roads again….”
From my reading of these 3 paragraphs there are 3 distinct periods after the Battle of Emridy Meadows for the village of Hommlet:
1) 5 years where adventurers continue to visit brought by wanderlust
2) 4 years where the village left in peace
3) 1 year of rising banditry
Therer, T1-4 is supposed to take place in 579 CY.
An alternate reading though might include some of the second time period
[Text missing]
Arguably this module could take place anywhere within the timeline of 575 – 579 CY dependent upon how close or how far the DM wants to be in relation to the Greyhawk Wars.
Now of course FtA mucks this all up cause Thrommel is still missing.
Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
E-mail: afn0945@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454/
Brought to you by OS/2 Warp & PMMail 1.53
Monday, November 10, 2008
Re: Greyhawk Timeline
From glholian@MIT.EDU Tue Oct 24 23:39:18 1995
To: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Content-Length: 4052
X-Lines: 69
Status: RO
>This thing is beginning to attain the status of Old Cheastnut, but is still
>troubling if you are hearing about it/ realizing it for the first time.
>
>Although I don't have it with me now, I beleive what TEE says is that Iuz
>was active in the *construction* of the Temple, not its fall. Thus, his
>involvement would have to have occurred several years earlier, making it a
>more difficult problem to fix than just moving the date of a Battle by one
>year.
>
>I believe TEE was pretty vague on what Iuz's "involvement" was, however,
>other than lending aid and conspiring with Zugg. That is, I do not think he
>was necessarily personally, physically, involved. Thus some (Gary?) have
>resolved that Iuz's support of the Temple did come while he was imprisoned,
>just as he was supporting many things - through his minions, with whom he
>had some kind of contact.
>
>For myself, I have moved the dates of Iuz's appearance, capture, and release
>back by more than a century. I prefer this, as it also gives time for Iuz
>to ascend to godhood. There is not enough time for this, in my style
>campaign, in the official time alloted to Iuz. This solution,
>unfortunately, results in a very Unoffical chronology.
Yup Kirt,
I think it is possible, if not particularly satisfying, to attempt to rationalize the inconsistency. As I think I mentioned to you long ago, I think Iuz worked with Zuggtmoy (and certain Princes of Elemental Evil such as Ogremoch, Cryonax, and Imix) to lay down the foundation for the temple prior to the Lord of Evil's capture by Zagig Yragerne et. al. in CY 505. That, I contend, is his direct assistance as intimated by T.E.E., even though it did not come to fruition for decades. Further, due to the nature of the prison holding the Nine Demigods, I also assume that they were conscious and sensate during their imprisonment (mostly becuase of the many tasks to which Zagig Yragerne directed their combined powers.) Thus Iuz was able to collect devotional power supplied to him by his faithful servants, who went on to found the plague of cults across the Flanaess between CY 510-570. The most prominent was in the City of Greyhawk (led at one point by the infamous Falcon.) Iuz was conscious, able to communicate with and return priestly powers to his followers, and even indirectly influence events in the Flanaess. The one thing he did not
know, the one thing that pained him most, was not knowing where the hell he was. The magical power of the Obelisk beneath Castle Greyhawk, kept this knowledge from both men and gods, so that while Iuz was able to reach out to the world, he did not know where he was reaching out from. Only the nascent demigod Zagyg, his patron Boccob, and those who assisted him knew where the Nine were trapped. In many ways, this explains why Iuz's priest-hood began leaving their holds and fastnesses in the Lands of Iuz to spread across the Flanaess and search for their Master after his untimely
disappearance (which they claimed for propaganda reasons was their Lord's
Assumption into the Abyss to be reborn in the fires of Eternity.) I further contend, that only the leaders of the Spurned Cult of Iuz knew what had truly happened to their master, lest their juniors and adherents lose faith. The High Priest Patch and the Archmage Ormuz, acting as temporal leaders, coordinated the efforts of all the various sects, including lending assitance to their Master's efforts in Verbobonc (T.E.E.). And so, while Iuz embarked upon the plan that resulted in the Temple of
Elemental Evil, the show was really Zuggtmoy's, despite paltry efforts to make her succeed. Of course, who could predict that one of the Spurned Cult's spies would be sitting in the same tavern in the City of Greyhawk when a drunken lord by the name of Robilar, let slip his discovery of a certain chamber beneath the ruins of Castle Greyhawk on a previous journey with his compatriots Riggby and Tenser...thus setting
about a series of events which will be a tale for another time....
-Gary
To: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Content-Length: 4052
X-Lines: 69
Status: RO
>This thing is beginning to attain the status of Old Cheastnut, but is still
>troubling if you are hearing about it/ realizing it for the first time.
>
>Although I don't have it with me now, I beleive what TEE says is that Iuz
>was active in the *construction* of the Temple, not its fall. Thus, his
>involvement would have to have occurred several years earlier, making it a
>more difficult problem to fix than just moving the date of a Battle by one
>year.
>
>I believe TEE was pretty vague on what Iuz's "involvement" was, however,
>other than lending aid and conspiring with Zugg. That is, I do not think he
>was necessarily personally, physically, involved. Thus some (Gary?) have
>resolved that Iuz's support of the Temple did come while he was imprisoned,
>just as he was supporting many things - through his minions, with whom he
>had some kind of contact.
>
>For myself, I have moved the dates of Iuz's appearance, capture, and release
>back by more than a century. I prefer this, as it also gives time for Iuz
>to ascend to godhood. There is not enough time for this, in my style
>campaign, in the official time alloted to Iuz. This solution,
>unfortunately, results in a very Unoffical chronology.
Yup Kirt,
I think it is possible, if not particularly satisfying, to attempt to rationalize the inconsistency. As I think I mentioned to you long ago, I think Iuz worked with Zuggtmoy (and certain Princes of Elemental Evil such as Ogremoch, Cryonax, and Imix) to lay down the foundation for the temple prior to the Lord of Evil's capture by Zagig Yragerne et. al. in CY 505. That, I contend, is his direct assistance as intimated by T.E.E., even though it did not come to fruition for decades. Further, due to the nature of the prison holding the Nine Demigods, I also assume that they were conscious and sensate during their imprisonment (mostly becuase of the many tasks to which Zagig Yragerne directed their combined powers.) Thus Iuz was able to collect devotional power supplied to him by his faithful servants, who went on to found the plague of cults across the Flanaess between CY 510-570. The most prominent was in the City of Greyhawk (led at one point by the infamous Falcon.) Iuz was conscious, able to communicate with and return priestly powers to his followers, and even indirectly influence events in the Flanaess. The one thing he did not
know, the one thing that pained him most, was not knowing where the hell he was. The magical power of the Obelisk beneath Castle Greyhawk, kept this knowledge from both men and gods, so that while Iuz was able to reach out to the world, he did not know where he was reaching out from. Only the nascent demigod Zagyg, his patron Boccob, and those who assisted him knew where the Nine were trapped. In many ways, this explains why Iuz's priest-hood began leaving their holds and fastnesses in the Lands of Iuz to spread across the Flanaess and search for their Master after his untimely
disappearance (which they claimed for propaganda reasons was their Lord's
Assumption into the Abyss to be reborn in the fires of Eternity.) I further contend, that only the leaders of the Spurned Cult of Iuz knew what had truly happened to their master, lest their juniors and adherents lose faith. The High Priest Patch and the Archmage Ormuz, acting as temporal leaders, coordinated the efforts of all the various sects, including lending assitance to their Master's efforts in Verbobonc (T.E.E.). And so, while Iuz embarked upon the plan that resulted in the Temple of
Elemental Evil, the show was really Zuggtmoy's, despite paltry efforts to make her succeed. Of course, who could predict that one of the Spurned Cult's spies would be sitting in the same tavern in the City of Greyhawk when a drunken lord by the name of Robilar, let slip his discovery of a certain chamber beneath the ruins of Castle Greyhawk on a previous journey with his compatriots Riggby and Tenser...thus setting
about a series of events which will be a tale for another time....
-Gary
Re: Greyhawk Timeline
From wackford@biology.utah.edu Tue Oct 24 22:27:24 1995
X-Sender: wackford@biology.utah.edu
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Content-Length: 2004
X-Lines: 44
Status: RO
>Okay, here's the problem.
>
>Iuz was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk from 505 - 570.
>
>The Battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple was in 569.
>
>Yet _The Temple of Elemental Evil_ states that Iuz was free and
>active during the fall of the temple. So, we have a contradiction.
>
>In _Iuz the Evil_, we find that Iuz only learns of the fall of the
>Temple after his release. This would imply that TOEE is incorrect,
>and that Iuz was still imprisoned when the Temple fell.
>
>So, for the sake of continuity, you either have to remove Iuz's
>involvement in TOEE, or change the the dates around so that Emridy
>Meadows happens after the release of Iuz.
>
>Anyways, I was curious whether anyone has come up with any other
>solutions.
>
>Greg Bernath gbernath@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
This thing is beginning to attain the status of Old Cheastnut, but is still troubling if you are hearing about it/ realizing it for the first time.
Although I don't have it with me now, I beleive what TEE says is that Iuz was active in the *construction* of the Temple, not its fall. Thus, his involvement would have to have occurred several years earlier, making it a more difficult problem to fix than just moving the date of a Battle by one year.
I believe TEE was pretty vague on what Iuz's "involvement" was, however, other than lending aid and conspiring with Zugg. That is, I do not think he was necessarily personally, physically, involved. Thus some (Gary?) have resolved that Iuz's support of the Temple did come while he was imprisoned, just as he was supporting many things - through his minions, with whom he had some kind of contact.
For myself, I have moved the dates of Iuz's appearance, capture, and release back by more than a century. I prefer this, as it also gives time for Iuz to ascend to godhood. There is not enough time for this, in my style campaign, in the official time alloted to Iuz. This solution, unfortunately, results in a very Unoffical chronology.
Kirt
X-Sender: wackford@biology.utah.edu
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: greytalk@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Greyhawk Timeline
Content-Length: 2004
X-Lines: 44
Status: RO
>Okay, here's the problem.
>
>Iuz was imprisoned under Castle Greyhawk from 505 - 570.
>
>The Battle of Emridy Meadows and the fall of the Temple was in 569.
>
>Yet _The Temple of Elemental Evil_ states that Iuz was free and
>active during the fall of the temple. So, we have a contradiction.
>
>In _Iuz the Evil_, we find that Iuz only learns of the fall of the
>Temple after his release. This would imply that TOEE is incorrect,
>and that Iuz was still imprisoned when the Temple fell.
>
>So, for the sake of continuity, you either have to remove Iuz's
>involvement in TOEE, or change the the dates around so that Emridy
>Meadows happens after the release of Iuz.
>
>Anyways, I was curious whether anyone has come up with any other
>solutions.
>
>Greg Bernath gbernath@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
This thing is beginning to attain the status of Old Cheastnut, but is still troubling if you are hearing about it/ realizing it for the first time.
Although I don't have it with me now, I beleive what TEE says is that Iuz was active in the *construction* of the Temple, not its fall. Thus, his involvement would have to have occurred several years earlier, making it a more difficult problem to fix than just moving the date of a Battle by one year.
I believe TEE was pretty vague on what Iuz's "involvement" was, however, other than lending aid and conspiring with Zugg. That is, I do not think he was necessarily personally, physically, involved. Thus some (Gary?) have resolved that Iuz's support of the Temple did come while he was imprisoned, just as he was supporting many things - through his minions, with whom he had some kind of contact.
For myself, I have moved the dates of Iuz's appearance, capture, and release back by more than a century. I prefer this, as it also gives time for Iuz to ascend to godhood. There is not enough time for this, in my style campaign, in the official time alloted to Iuz. This solution, unfortunately, results in a very Unoffical chronology.
Kirt
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