Showing posts with label humanoid monsters. Show all posts
Showing posts with label humanoid monsters. Show all posts
Tuesday, August 18, 2015
Friday, December 5, 2014
Wednesday, September 9, 2009
Re: Humanoids in Greyhawk
Date sent: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:24:10 +1000
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: “Valerian J. Vortex”
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: Keith Horsfield
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Keith Horsfield wrote:
> I knew this was gonna resurface ;-) FWIW, I'm attempting to do
> two things here 1) Determine whether humanoids existed in the Flanaess
> east of the barrier mountains (Yatils/Barrier
> Peaks/Crystalmists/Hellfurnaces) and 2) Determine where the oerdians
> originally came from in accordance with published material (I.e. the
> migration maps and the relevant passages stating that humanoids drove
> the oeridians northward and eastward).
>
> As to #1 I'm leaning to the side that humanoids migrated along with
> the oerdians and suel.
I agree, but the term “humanoids” covers a lot of ground. The humanoid mercenaries used in the Bak-Suel wars were mostly Euroz IMC, so they migrated eastward. Other humanoids...well, this might take a while...
IMC, there are three basic races of humanoids: Euroz, Kell and Jebline. Kobolds (Celbit) are a small, cunning subspecies of Gnoll (Kell). Goblins (Jebline) are “fairies gone bad”, who usually harass humans by creating inconveniences – laming horses, stealing stuff, ruining crops – rather than risking open combat. Hojebline (hobgoblins) are bigger offshoots of the previous who lack the ability to create annoying cantrips. Hobgoblins are more inclined enter combat. As for Euroz, well an orc is an orc is an orc...
Anyway...
In prehistory, Olves, Dwur, and Kell fought over the Flanaess. The Flannae arrived later, after a particularly nasty period in the war, and were able to create a niche for themselves and defend it against all comers. This golden age of the Flanic culture is best remembered in the legends of Vecna, the Isle of Woe and the Ur Flanae, although most of the Flanae had access to only primitive technology. At the same time, the Suloise Empire was reaching its peak, and a number of Dwur, Kell and Olve kingdoms covered the Flanaess, existing at a late bronze age stage of development (with the Kell slightly behind).
The Kell in particular were hardest pressed by the human newcomers, and olven and dwur assistance (seeing the chance to cripple one of their ancestral foes) allowed the Flanae to virtually erase any traces of the Kell civilization. The ferocity of the Flanae surprised the Elves and Dwarves, and after the sacking of the Great Library of the Kell at Gvang-Oekugh, the allied policy successfully changed its emphasis to limited contact with the humans and to disrupt the cohesiveness and development of the “fast-breeding” Flanae.
It was against this backdro that the Oeridians arrived, with the Suloise and Euroz following shortly after: scattered outposts of (usually) backwards Flan with a wide variety of cultural identities (eg. Geoff -v- Tenh -v- Perrenland -v- the Rovers; see also “The Languages of Greyhawk” and occasional contacts with other demihumans suggesting well-established but hidden, Dwur and Olven governments. By this stage, the Kell had descended into the savagery by which they are known today. (Jebline had always existed in the same way that the dragons or the lizard men existed there, but not in numbers sufficient to form any social structure of notes.)
The newcomers arrived in such numbers and with such racial cohesiveness that the Dwuf and Olves could do little to prevent their overrunning the plains and grasslands of the Flanaess. After a few centuries, the demihumans began to appreciate that humans were generally more open to cooperation than the Euroz were, and negotiations formally recognised established understandings. Such negotiations have resulted in the recognition of the borders of Celene, the Spindrift Isles and the Highfolk (other demihuman kingdoms, such as the Olven realm of Gaolin in the Dreadwood, are generally not recognized by the more powerful human governments who claim their territories), or recognition of demihuman citizenship and participation in government (eg. Verbobonc or the Ulek states).
Well that's about it off the top of my head, if people want more details I'll have to cart my folder in from home.
Ken Barns
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: “Valerian J. Vortex”
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: Keith Horsfield
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Keith Horsfield wrote:
> I knew this was gonna resurface ;-) FWIW, I'm attempting to do
> two things here 1) Determine whether humanoids existed in the Flanaess
> east of the barrier mountains (Yatils/Barrier
> Peaks/Crystalmists/Hellfurnaces) and 2) Determine where the oerdians
> originally came from in accordance with published material (I.e. the
> migration maps and the relevant passages stating that humanoids drove
> the oeridians northward and eastward).
>
> As to #1 I'm leaning to the side that humanoids migrated along with
> the oerdians and suel.
I agree, but the term “humanoids” covers a lot of ground. The humanoid mercenaries used in the Bak-Suel wars were mostly Euroz IMC, so they migrated eastward. Other humanoids...well, this might take a while...
IMC, there are three basic races of humanoids: Euroz, Kell and Jebline. Kobolds (Celbit) are a small, cunning subspecies of Gnoll (Kell). Goblins (Jebline) are “fairies gone bad”, who usually harass humans by creating inconveniences – laming horses, stealing stuff, ruining crops – rather than risking open combat. Hojebline (hobgoblins) are bigger offshoots of the previous who lack the ability to create annoying cantrips. Hobgoblins are more inclined enter combat. As for Euroz, well an orc is an orc is an orc...
Anyway...
In prehistory, Olves, Dwur, and Kell fought over the Flanaess. The Flannae arrived later, after a particularly nasty period in the war, and were able to create a niche for themselves and defend it against all comers. This golden age of the Flanic culture is best remembered in the legends of Vecna, the Isle of Woe and the Ur Flanae, although most of the Flanae had access to only primitive technology. At the same time, the Suloise Empire was reaching its peak, and a number of Dwur, Kell and Olve kingdoms covered the Flanaess, existing at a late bronze age stage of development (with the Kell slightly behind).
The Kell in particular were hardest pressed by the human newcomers, and olven and dwur assistance (seeing the chance to cripple one of their ancestral foes) allowed the Flanae to virtually erase any traces of the Kell civilization. The ferocity of the Flanae surprised the Elves and Dwarves, and after the sacking of the Great Library of the Kell at Gvang-Oekugh, the allied policy successfully changed its emphasis to limited contact with the humans and to disrupt the cohesiveness and development of the “fast-breeding” Flanae.
It was against this backdro that the Oeridians arrived, with the Suloise and Euroz following shortly after: scattered outposts of (usually) backwards Flan with a wide variety of cultural identities (eg. Geoff -v- Tenh -v- Perrenland -v- the Rovers; see also “The Languages of Greyhawk” and occasional contacts with other demihumans suggesting well-established but hidden, Dwur and Olven governments. By this stage, the Kell had descended into the savagery by which they are known today. (Jebline had always existed in the same way that the dragons or the lizard men existed there, but not in numbers sufficient to form any social structure of notes.)
The newcomers arrived in such numbers and with such racial cohesiveness that the Dwuf and Olves could do little to prevent their overrunning the plains and grasslands of the Flanaess. After a few centuries, the demihumans began to appreciate that humans were generally more open to cooperation than the Euroz were, and negotiations formally recognised established understandings. Such negotiations have resulted in the recognition of the borders of Celene, the Spindrift Isles and the Highfolk (other demihuman kingdoms, such as the Olven realm of Gaolin in the Dreadwood, are generally not recognized by the more powerful human governments who claim their territories), or recognition of demihuman citizenship and participation in government (eg. Verbobonc or the Ulek states).
Well that's about it off the top of my head, if people want more details I'll have to cart my folder in from home.
Ken Barns
ex-Medical Student and Connoisseur of Life.
Tuesday, September 1, 2009
Re: Hobgoblins of the Flanaess [DMD]
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Hobgoblins of the Flanaess [DMD]
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:58:58 EDT
From: ">Rip Van Wormer>"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
In a message dated 6/15/99 12:20:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scvolstagg@FOXVALLEY.NET writes:
> Yes, at last, a new addition to my demi-humans of the Flanaess posts of old (anyone remember them?). Skimming through the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory was inspirational, as you shall shortly see...
>
Why are they Blu-Jebli instead of Ho-Jebli?
This is interesting (the DMD as a whole) and perfectly reasonable, but I would look to a different place for the origin of hobgoblins. If we look at their illustration in the Monster Manual we see them dressed in armor that looks very Japanese. They're also (along with the ogre) on the encounter charts of Oriental Adventures. Thus, I propose that the hobgoblin, like the ogre mage, comes from deep central Oerik.
The question of their role in western society arises.
They are, imo, servants of the oni; the calvary and non-commisioned officers in their armies. Their primary purpose was to control the wild and insolent bakemono troops. They are red-skinned, like many of their oni masters, and the dominant males have noses as blue as any ogre mage's. The oni themselves were loosely ruled by various feuding and scheming devil lords.
Late in their great wars with the Suloise, the Baklunish realized that the orcish troops their enemies had recruited and, in their words, "bred from darkness" were proving too great an advantage and in desperation they turned to the oni kingdoms that existed on the borders between Baklunish and Celestial lands. In exchange for weapons and magic of Baklunish make, the oni provided legions of bakemono, goblin spiders, hob-goblins, ogres and ogre magi to fill out the ranks of the golden armies of Baklun. Cut off from their primal origins in the spirit-haunted lands of the west and under the stern guidance of the Baklunish defiler-mages, much of the wildness was bred from the bakemono, stabilizing their assortment of inheritated traits into definite strains. The goblins became shrunken mirrors of their masters, as deferrent to authority as any oni minion. The "norkers" were those bakemono
who had retained the rebellious nature of their ancestors; many of these escaped and were recruited into the orcish armies of the Suloise (thus their name). How the goblins ended up as purely nocturnal creatures is a mystery, but is possibly a means of control instituted by the Baklunish (we hesitatingly identify helmets uncovered on the eastern coast of the Drawmidj as being designed to shelter loyal goblins from the sun), or possibly due to their later experiences with the dark magic of the North.
With the new troops ready, the Baklunish armies could sweep through the passes and into the Suel basin with much greater impunity, creating waves of refugees fleeing to the east. The Suel continued their own strikes, driving Baklunish and Oeridian refugees into the Flanaess as well, where along with the other invaders the native Flan encountered orcs and goblin-kind for the first time. At first still under control of their masters, the orcs rebelled as soon as the Suel ran out of their sorcerous goads and narcotics (something that didn't happen for decades in Urnst, and that never happened in the Tilvanot peninsula). The kin of the oni, for their part, considered their pact with the Baklunish severed when they stopped using their troops for purposes of war, concentrating on survival in the strange land. The Baklunish advance was broken by the clever humanoids, limiting their expansion to the northern reaches. The Suel managed to drive their former slaves into the hills and wildlands, though this weakened them enough to be conquered or absorbed by other peoples in some areas.
The orcs immediately made for the underground lands with their soothing eternal night, competing with the native dwarves who would otherwise have noted the changes in the human lands with complete disinterest. The dwarves, forced by necessity, made alliances with the Oeridians and in some cases retreated to the northern coast of the Azure Sea. The insatiable orcs, bred for quick energy, also terrorized the lands of the olvenfolk and Flan. The elves remembered the orcish ancestors from the days when they dwelled with them in the Suel lands before their civil war, and responded with quick violence, slow retreat, and their own alliances with the Oeridfolk. The Flannae fought as best they could, naming the invaders _Euroz_, or Eyeless (after their affinity to night combat and their one-eyed god).
The ogres and goblins mostly congregated in the Yatils, where they increased their numbers and fraternized with the twisted giants who have been absorbing the dark energies of those mountains for millenia. The fierce northern Flannae tribes named them Jebli and Eiger; the first word an adaptation of their Baklunish name and the second word simply a curse. The clever gnomes managed to survive by playing the Jebli against their historical enemies the kobolds; they are probably the only species that ended up better off after the goblin incursions. The goblin and ogre peoples inevitably spread throughout the Flanaess, occasionally controlling and being controlled by the orcs, humans, and others of varying levels of power.
In a message dated 6/8/99 12:20:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, guarhoth@VEI.NET
writes:
> >He was captured by the orcs and used as breeding stock.
>
> Bleah. I prefer to have him not being held by the orcs. It can easily lead
> to a campaign to help restore the Marquis to his rightful fief.
No, no. He's enjoying it.
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:58:58 EDT
From: ">Rip Van Wormer>"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
In a message dated 6/15/99 12:20:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scvolstagg@FOXVALLEY.NET writes:
> Yes, at last, a new addition to my demi-humans of the Flanaess posts of old (anyone remember them?). Skimming through the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory was inspirational, as you shall shortly see...
>
Why are they Blu-Jebli instead of Ho-Jebli?
This is interesting (the DMD as a whole) and perfectly reasonable, but I would look to a different place for the origin of hobgoblins. If we look at their illustration in the Monster Manual we see them dressed in armor that looks very Japanese. They're also (along with the ogre) on the encounter charts of Oriental Adventures. Thus, I propose that the hobgoblin, like the ogre mage, comes from deep central Oerik.
The question of their role in western society arises.
They are, imo, servants of the oni; the calvary and non-commisioned officers in their armies. Their primary purpose was to control the wild and insolent bakemono troops. They are red-skinned, like many of their oni masters, and the dominant males have noses as blue as any ogre mage's. The oni themselves were loosely ruled by various feuding and scheming devil lords.
Late in their great wars with the Suloise, the Baklunish realized that the orcish troops their enemies had recruited and, in their words, "bred from darkness" were proving too great an advantage and in desperation they turned to the oni kingdoms that existed on the borders between Baklunish and Celestial lands. In exchange for weapons and magic of Baklunish make, the oni provided legions of bakemono, goblin spiders, hob-goblins, ogres and ogre magi to fill out the ranks of the golden armies of Baklun. Cut off from their primal origins in the spirit-haunted lands of the west and under the stern guidance of the Baklunish defiler-mages, much of the wildness was bred from the bakemono, stabilizing their assortment of inheritated traits into definite strains. The goblins became shrunken mirrors of their masters, as deferrent to authority as any oni minion. The "norkers" were those bakemono
who had retained the rebellious nature of their ancestors; many of these escaped and were recruited into the orcish armies of the Suloise (thus their name). How the goblins ended up as purely nocturnal creatures is a mystery, but is possibly a means of control instituted by the Baklunish (we hesitatingly identify helmets uncovered on the eastern coast of the Drawmidj as being designed to shelter loyal goblins from the sun), or possibly due to their later experiences with the dark magic of the North.
With the new troops ready, the Baklunish armies could sweep through the passes and into the Suel basin with much greater impunity, creating waves of refugees fleeing to the east. The Suel continued their own strikes, driving Baklunish and Oeridian refugees into the Flanaess as well, where along with the other invaders the native Flan encountered orcs and goblin-kind for the first time. At first still under control of their masters, the orcs rebelled as soon as the Suel ran out of their sorcerous goads and narcotics (something that didn't happen for decades in Urnst, and that never happened in the Tilvanot peninsula). The kin of the oni, for their part, considered their pact with the Baklunish severed when they stopped using their troops for purposes of war, concentrating on survival in the strange land. The Baklunish advance was broken by the clever humanoids, limiting their expansion to the northern reaches. The Suel managed to drive their former slaves into the hills and wildlands, though this weakened them enough to be conquered or absorbed by other peoples in some areas.
The orcs immediately made for the underground lands with their soothing eternal night, competing with the native dwarves who would otherwise have noted the changes in the human lands with complete disinterest. The dwarves, forced by necessity, made alliances with the Oeridians and in some cases retreated to the northern coast of the Azure Sea. The insatiable orcs, bred for quick energy, also terrorized the lands of the olvenfolk and Flan. The elves remembered the orcish ancestors from the days when they dwelled with them in the Suel lands before their civil war, and responded with quick violence, slow retreat, and their own alliances with the Oeridfolk. The Flannae fought as best they could, naming the invaders _Euroz_, or Eyeless (after their affinity to night combat and their one-eyed god).
The ogres and goblins mostly congregated in the Yatils, where they increased their numbers and fraternized with the twisted giants who have been absorbing the dark energies of those mountains for millenia. The fierce northern Flannae tribes named them Jebli and Eiger; the first word an adaptation of their Baklunish name and the second word simply a curse. The clever gnomes managed to survive by playing the Jebli against their historical enemies the kobolds; they are probably the only species that ended up better off after the goblin incursions. The goblin and ogre peoples inevitably spread throughout the Flanaess, occasionally controlling and being controlled by the orcs, humans, and others of varying levels of power.
In a message dated 6/8/99 12:20:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, guarhoth@VEI.NET
writes:
> >He was captured by the orcs and used as breeding stock.
>
> Bleah. I prefer to have him not being held by the orcs. It can easily lead
> to a campaign to help restore the Marquis to his rightful fief.
No, no. He's enjoying it.
Thursday, July 2, 2009
Various
Date sent: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 23:11:19 -0500
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Otto Zequeira 2
Subject: [GREYTALK][GT] Various
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Humanoid origins, Vatun: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:40:12 CST, SCOTT CASPER wrote, “”What if, way back after the Invoked Devastation, the hordelings didn't leave right away. Recent postings have argued about whether summoning has a time limit. What if the hordelings stayed, molested the Oerdians, and the product of these hordeling-human unions gradually produced the orcs, trolls, and kobolds we all know (and love) today?”
The problem with this idea is that the Invoked Devastation reference comes after the description of humanoids as troops. A good idea, though.
“Secondly, this occurred to me at about the same time. What if the Vatun disguise of Iuz's was not Iuz's idea? A lot of gods were probably happy with his incarceration under Castle Greyhawk. What if they schemed to check the demi-god again? Zagyg, Cuthbert, and maybe some other lesser gods or quasi-deities kidnapped Iuz, forced amnesia on him, and told him he was the lost god Vatun? They got the Suel gods to go along with this, and that is why divination never revealed the Vatun deception.
Now we know why Iuz is so bitter. Imagine, a hunk like him getting stuck in the body of 'Ken'.
Greyspace: On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:20:33 +1300, rodking wrote, “I have a particular dislike of Spelljamming in the context of Greyhawk although it is an enjoyable game in its own right. The problems are these: 1) Its a huge departure from the sense of Greyhawk being a distinct Plane of existence in its own right. Now its just a bubble in an endless sea.”
I personally like the idea of limiting exit and entry into the sphere to only the most powerful mages, e.g. Zagyg. This maintains the feel of an isolated WoG.
Official artifacts: On Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:41:31 -0300, Bruno Di Pentima asked,
>For example, doesn't the City of Greyhawk have the proverbial “Sword of
>Damocles” hanging over it with a certain personage of the Outer Planes
>vowing vengeance against the place and it's former master for entrapping it
>and the theft of a potent device dear to it? Could it not be said by some
>that the City was both blessed and ultimately doomed by the legacy of
Zagyg?
I didn't knew that (I am a little inexperienced in Greyhawk) Where did you got that?? From City of Greyhawk boxed set?
The poster was referring to Iuz and his imprisonment under Castle Greyhawk by Zagyg as detailed in several places. I think some of this info. Is in the FAQ.
What's up with Greyhawk98?. On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:19:06 -0500, AOL KenNewq asked, “I've been away from the list for a while, so I'm not quite sure where these assorted Greyhawk98 posts are originating. Is Greyhawk98 (I'm assuming this is a proposed product line) actually going to happen, or is it wishful thinking?”
It's the best of wishful thinking...
Druids: On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17L14L35 -0600, Victor Gonzalez asked, “I feel silly asking this question but last night my DM try to argue that, per the rules, druids do not have to be true neutral, just neutral in some aspect. And when we looked it up in the PH is did say just neutral, not true neutral. Has they're been an official change or is my DM being to picky in looking for the exact wording of true neutral?”
Yes, he's being picky. I personally enjoy the view that druids are just as vicious sons of Iggwilfs as anybody else.
GH Wars: Here's a little something that I put together, in case it's helpful.
Wars Calendar
Year Month Event
582-----------Rise of Stonefist
--------------The Fall of Tenh
583-----------Iuz returns to his homeland
------3-------Blood Moon Festival
--------------Martyrs of the Holy Shielding
--------------Stroke & Counter Stroke
------7-------Furyondy Besieged
--------------Great Kingdom Awakens
--------------Osson's Raid
--------------Lordship of the Isles Coup
583—winter----Aid from the South
----spring----An Empire Where None Had Stood
584---8-------Conquest of Almor
--------------Horsemen of Ket
--------------Giant Troubles
--------------Mad King Takes the Field
--------------Sea Princes Assassinated
--------------Collapse of Ide & Onnwall
--------------Hool Invasion
--------------Blockade of Gradsul
-------9------Aerdy Sundered
--------------Great Council of Greyhawk
585---2-------Day of the Great Signing
--------------Elves reclaim Lendor Isle?
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Otto Zequeira 2
Subject: [GREYTALK][GT] Various
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Humanoid origins, Vatun: On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:40:12 CST, SCOTT CASPER
The problem with this idea is that the Invoked Devastation reference comes after the description of humanoids as troops. A good idea, though.
“Secondly, this occurred to me at about the same time. What if the Vatun disguise of Iuz's was not Iuz's idea? A lot of gods were probably happy with his incarceration under Castle Greyhawk. What if they schemed to check the demi-god again? Zagyg, Cuthbert, and maybe some other lesser gods or quasi-deities kidnapped Iuz, forced amnesia on him, and told him he was the lost god Vatun? They got the Suel gods to go along with this, and that is why divination never revealed the Vatun deception.
Now we know why Iuz is so bitter. Imagine, a hunk like him getting stuck in the body of 'Ken'.
Greyspace: On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:20:33 +1300, rodking
I personally like the idea of limiting exit and entry into the sphere to only the most powerful mages, e.g. Zagyg. This maintains the feel of an isolated WoG.
Official artifacts: On Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:41:31 -0300, Bruno Di Pentima
>For example, doesn't the City of Greyhawk have the proverbial “Sword of
>Damocles” hanging over it with a certain personage of the Outer Planes
>vowing vengeance against the place and it's former master for entrapping it
>and the theft of a potent device dear to it? Could it not be said by some
>that the City was both blessed and ultimately doomed by the legacy of
Zagyg?
I didn't knew that (I am a little inexperienced in Greyhawk) Where did you got that?? From City of Greyhawk boxed set?
The poster was referring to Iuz and his imprisonment under Castle Greyhawk by Zagyg as detailed in several places. I think some of this info. Is in the FAQ.
What's up with Greyhawk98?. On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 11:19:06 -0500, AOL KenNewq
It's the best of wishful thinking...
Druids: On Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17L14L35 -0600, Victor Gonzalez
Yes, he's being picky. I personally enjoy the view that druids are just as vicious sons of Iggwilfs as anybody else.
GH Wars: Here's a little something that I put together, in case it's helpful.
Wars Calendar
Year Month Event
582-----------Rise of Stonefist
--------------The Fall of Tenh
583-----------Iuz returns to his homeland
------3-------Blood Moon Festival
--------------Martyrs of the Holy Shielding
--------------Stroke & Counter Stroke
------7-------Furyondy Besieged
--------------Great Kingdom Awakens
--------------Osson's Raid
--------------Lordship of the Isles Coup
583—winter----Aid from the South
----spring----An Empire Where None Had Stood
584---8-------Conquest of Almor
--------------Horsemen of Ket
--------------Giant Troubles
--------------Mad King Takes the Field
--------------Sea Princes Assassinated
--------------Collapse of Ide & Onnwall
--------------Hool Invasion
--------------Blockade of Gradsul
-------9------Aerdy Sundered
--------------Great Council of Greyhawk
585---2-------Day of the Great Signing
--------------Elves reclaim Lendor Isle?
Sunday, June 28, 2009
My absense, humanoid origins, Vatun, and cow
Priority: normal
Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:40:12 CST
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: SCOTT CASPER
Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL
Subject: [GREYTALK] My absense, humanoid origins, Vatun, and cow
Originally to: greytalk@MIT.EDU
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Yes! I'm finally back! For those of you who didn't notice, I've been gone for a month. For the first week, I was working on mid-terms. The second week I was catching up with the first week. Since then, something was wrong with my e-mail and I wasn't able to send anything no matter what I did. I owe one or two personal e-mails I intend to get to in the next few days. Of course, there are those among you who, for bizarre reasons, found my guns and plumbing threads boring and probably wished I'd stay silent. Well, to that I say – TOUGH!
Since I've been sitting here quietly for the past month unable to comment, I'm way behind on all the current threads. I intend to throw my opinions once more into the cyber-wind soon enough, but for now I thought I'd just share some musings I've had. These ideas are way out there, and I'm not even sure I'll be using them yet. Still, I wanted to share them and see what people thought.
First off, my idea about humanoid origins was this. What if, way back after the Invoked Devastation, the hordelings didn't leave right away. Recent postings have argued about whether summoning has a time limit. What if the hordelings stayed, molested the Oerdians, and the product of these hordeling-human unions gradually produced the orcs, trolls, and kobolds we all know (and love) today?
Secondly, this occurred to me at about the same time. What if the Vatun disguise of Iuz's was not Iuz's idea? A lot of gods were probably happy with his incarceration under Castle Greyhawk. What if they schemed to check the demi-god again? Zagyg, Cuthbert, and maybe some other lesser gods or quasi-deities kidnapped Iuz, forced amnesia on him, and told him he was the lost god Vatun? They got the Suel gods to go along with this, and that is why divination never revealed the Vatun deception.
There is one other thing I could use comments on. I am still working on my Monster Manual revisions (to the exclusion of far too much), and I just recently got to my Cattle entry. Has anyone given any thought to what breeds of cow may be found in the Flanaess? Can someone from Europe give me some names of European breeds of cow?
So far, I have developed three varieties of cow. There is the common (2 HD) Flannish cow. There is the smaller (1 HD) Kettish (or elven) cow which is considered excellent livestock. Then there is the Ideish cow (3 HD) which is strong enough to pull wagons, plows, and can even be rode like a mount (borrowed from the comicbook BONE). Is “Ideish” the word you would use to describe something from Idee?
Scott “Volstagg” Casper
Have fun in Brazil, Erik! Never mind that you've left me with one less Call of Cthulu player!
Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:40:12 CST
Send reply to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: SCOTT CASPER
Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL
Subject: [GREYTALK] My absense, humanoid origins, Vatun, and cow
Originally to: greytalk@MIT.EDU
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Yes! I'm finally back! For those of you who didn't notice, I've been gone for a month. For the first week, I was working on mid-terms. The second week I was catching up with the first week. Since then, something was wrong with my e-mail and I wasn't able to send anything no matter what I did. I owe one or two personal e-mails I intend to get to in the next few days. Of course, there are those among you who, for bizarre reasons, found my guns and plumbing threads boring and probably wished I'd stay silent. Well, to that I say – TOUGH!
Since I've been sitting here quietly for the past month unable to comment, I'm way behind on all the current threads. I intend to throw my opinions once more into the cyber-wind soon enough, but for now I thought I'd just share some musings I've had. These ideas are way out there, and I'm not even sure I'll be using them yet. Still, I wanted to share them and see what people thought.
First off, my idea about humanoid origins was this. What if, way back after the Invoked Devastation, the hordelings didn't leave right away. Recent postings have argued about whether summoning has a time limit. What if the hordelings stayed, molested the Oerdians, and the product of these hordeling-human unions gradually produced the orcs, trolls, and kobolds we all know (and love) today?
Secondly, this occurred to me at about the same time. What if the Vatun disguise of Iuz's was not Iuz's idea? A lot of gods were probably happy with his incarceration under Castle Greyhawk. What if they schemed to check the demi-god again? Zagyg, Cuthbert, and maybe some other lesser gods or quasi-deities kidnapped Iuz, forced amnesia on him, and told him he was the lost god Vatun? They got the Suel gods to go along with this, and that is why divination never revealed the Vatun deception.
There is one other thing I could use comments on. I am still working on my Monster Manual revisions (to the exclusion of far too much), and I just recently got to my Cattle entry. Has anyone given any thought to what breeds of cow may be found in the Flanaess? Can someone from Europe give me some names of European breeds of cow?
So far, I have developed three varieties of cow. There is the common (2 HD) Flannish cow. There is the smaller (1 HD) Kettish (or elven) cow which is considered excellent livestock. Then there is the Ideish cow (3 HD) which is strong enough to pull wagons, plows, and can even be rode like a mount (borrowed from the comicbook BONE). Is “Ideish” the word you would use to describe something from Idee?
Scott “Volstagg” Casper
Have fun in Brazil, Erik! Never mind that you've left me with one less Call of Cthulu player!
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