Oeridian Origins

 From: Noel Graham [vision.at.work@JUNO.COM]

Sent ; Saturday, November 21, 1998 2:14 PM

To: GREYTALK@mitvma.mit.edu

Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Oeridian Origins (was AGGHHHAA!!!!)

Now, imagine if the Oeridians were once an evolved culture from the region now known as the Land of Black Ice. After some cataclysmic event, most of the survivors were forced into a nomadic role. Perhaps some small facet of their culture, much defeated, even alien by current standards, remains in Blackmoor. Or, perhaps Blackmoor developed from a rival or subjugated/subservient (formery dependent?) culture making use of the remains (or dealing proximately with them).

The Oeridians may have had an advanced seafaring aspect, based around the Drawmidj. Upon the destruction/internal collapse of their society, they moved south and west along the coast into what is now the Baklunnish lands. Of course, some traveled even more south or east, but this discussion focuses on the coastal migrations.

Start with the Baklunnish indeed inhabiting the southerly realms of what today is said to be old Suel lands (Sea of Dust) and some amount of the Dry Steppes. Bring the Suel in from the SW and into conflict with the Baklunnish. This cultural clash, both militarily, magically, and philosophically (including religion) continues as the Suloise invaders press the Baklunnish ever northward.

The B. resist conquest, but the struggles are as much interrupted by the need for commerce to support the agricultural/lifestyle alterations occurring as part of the movements. Still, the enmities are deeply founded. After the eventual conflict of the Rain of Colorless Fire/Invoked Devastation, the B. are driven in whole northward to the Drawmidj coast.

During this time, the B. also came into conflict with the Oeridians. These embittered nomads had not the strength to resist the B. with some even becoming mercenary forces in the B./S. conflicts. Other tribes of the O. were absorbed into the B., with only the Uli retaining any significant territory unto itself. Over the course of events the momentum of the O. flow westward becomes reversed, sending what portion that retains its cultural/racial identity back into the Flanaess. There, they are followed, at least in some small part, by the B. (who pretty much stop at the Yatils).

The migratory chart of the races found in the '83 Guide (p. 10) is only partially accurate, then, as it does not reflect the "total" movements of the Oeridians and attempts to retrofit their presence south of the Burneal Forest by saying they expanded their population, while still being turned back by the Flannae (what? near) the modern (pre-Wars) Rovers holdings.

It seems far more likely the Oeridians integrated with the Flan inhabitants of the region to create the Chakyik and Wegweir. Still, the text (for the Wolf Nomads, at least) claims these nomads are of B. extraction, verily overlooking the equal O. presence indicated by the p.10 migrations map. For the purposes of explanation, consider that this quantification has been done relatively recently in Flanaess history.

Assuming the some amount of the O. did become racially absorbed by the B. moving northward (perhaps some were already present when the O. got there) from the south, this racial confusion is to be expected. The '83 box gave me a fit on this point when I first read it (oh, long enough ago). The O. were being characterized by their pure-blood appearance, which the cross-breeds didn't possess. The B. were being given credit for the rest, seemingly for no more reason than their historically recent presence west of the Yatils (they're nearby).

My apologies for not being more detailed (but not less long-winded ::smile::). I posted more elaborate explanations back at the beginning of the year, but they were generally overlooked then. Assuming my way of making things terribly complex is actually of interest to folks, I'll try to compile more of it together in the coming months for posting. (I say months because the holiday seasons are virtually upon us, and y'all know what a bear it is to work during them, and because of other projects *demanding* my time.)

Chapter 3: Among the Ullites

Page 1

Page 2

Re: [greytalk] Re: Knights of the Watch

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:30 AM
From: "Chris Anderson"
To: "Marc-Tizoc González"
Cc: greytalk@canonfire.com

I've always envisioned Ket as being culturally like the Seljuk Turks. Tusmit, Ekbir, and Zeif would be more like the Arabic cultures of Baghdad circa 800-1000AD. Ull is the Mongol equivalent (I confess ... the city of Ilkhan did that for me) and the Paynims are the moral equivalent of the Empire of Tamerlane for me, sans Samarkand.

For me, Ket, Bissel, and Veluna would have much the same tensions that Byzantium and the Turks had... not because of religion, but because of competing cultures. Which would make Bissel the Outremer of Keoland... except that we have no crusades. :-)

Personally, I think the idea of a Crusade from the Flanaess into Baklunish lands is silly, unless somehow the Suloise remembered their history, got organized, and got seriously mad. Mad in both meanings of the term, too.

So, it would never happen.

-- Chris
On 3/19/07, Marc-Tizoc González wrote:
Thanks to all for responding. This level of historical information is one of GreyTalk's strengths.

Rafu mentioned that the comparison between civilized Bakluna and the Ottoman Empire is off and suggested comparing the Baklunish to pre-Ottoman Arabs is better.

He and Chris Anderson also distinguished the factors of Earth's Crusades and the sociopolitical situation between the Kingdom of Keoland, Veluna, and Ket. It's interesting that an Oerthly crusade seems unlikely given Keoland's failure to hold what it tried to conquer during its historical expansionism.

In contrast, the uncivilized Bakluni nomads have twice invaded substantial regions of the Flanaess.

MTG

Raffaele Manzo < raffaele.manzo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why did many of the Crusades seem to originate in kingdoms of France and
> England? Is that historically inaccurate?

Historically accurate or not, I think we tend to get such an impression because those two kingdoms were the two largest unified political entities within Roman Catholic Europe during most of the Middle Ages (the two which stand out resembling "nations" to our modern eyes).

As an aside, since you mentioned the Crusades... I believe the Knights of the Watch have something of the (historical Crusades-era) Templars. Templar Knights were "soldier monks" tasked with defending the small Christian "kingdoms" in the Holy Land - a shard of Western Europe surrounded by Arab nations. In a sense, if you think of "greater Keoland area" states as a Western Europe, and of Bakluni as Arabs, then you've got Western Europe and Near East sharing a long border - longer than any Holy Land kingdom was large (though nearly impassable mountain ranges do help) - and the Watchers patrolling it. Of course, you can only draw so much similarities... You won't have any "Crusades" in the Flanaess, at least not "Watcher-nations vs
Baklunish states" Crusades. Real world Crusades were born from politically opposed peoples *not* sharing a geographical border, but sharing a distant cultural heritage which brought both sides to hold a certain place as "holy". If you look ad Baklunish states vs. Gran March, Keoland etc. you're looking at politically opposed peoples who
*do* share a border, but having no common cultural heritage whatsoever (a much more common situation in the majority of real-world conflicts as well).

Oh, yes... and I would *not* liken the Bakluni to the Ottoman Empire. Pre-Ottoman Arabs is a much closer call, I believe.

____
Rafu
(the gamer formerly known as "Lord Raphael")
http://victordraconem.blogspot.com

RE: [greytalk] Looking for a Bakluni War God

Wednesday, April 4, 2007 4:40 PM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com

I agree. Al'Akbar as a righteous war / sun god, and Azor'alq as the noble paladin / fakir (is that the right word?).

LGJ 3 described Azor'alq (formerly of Pinnacles fame) and connected him in very interesting ways to Al'Akbar and the Bakluni struggle against evil / darkness.

MTG

"Vest III, Robert W" wrote:
I think Al'Akbar &/or Azor'alq are probably the closest thing the Baklunish have to war gods.

Rob Bastard
Bastard Greyhawk: http://homepages.ius.edu/rvest/Greyhawk.html
Age of Worms: http://www.ghoulgamers.com/viewforum.php?f=73
Greyhawk on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greyhawk


-----Original Message-----
From: Basiliv [mailto:basiliv@cablespeed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:36 PM
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Subject: Re: [greytalk] Looking for a Bakluni War God

Official info on the Baklunish gods is sparse, so you might want to see what fan material is available.

But you can get just about everything officially available about them by consulting 2 sources:

1) The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer: This has a write-up of all of the Baklunish gods of Demigod status or higher. Each write-up is about 4 paragraphs, which is a lot more than many of them had in the past. But what I think is especially useful are the
write-ups of the Bakluni nations, and the religious conflicts add a nice dimension to this small pantheon.

2) Living Greyhawk Journal #3: This one may be questionable by some, as the real write-ups in here are of several Hero-Gods of Greyhawk. Several figures that were little more than names were turned into Hero-Gods, and a few of these are Bakluni in origin. But I mention it because, divine or not, the backgrounds of these figures provide a good addition to the religious conflicts I mentioned above.

Other than that, for official sources you've really just got several write-ups of Istus:

Greyhawk Adventures hardback
From The Ashes boxed set
1983 boxed set -- this also has a write-up of Xan Yae

I think that's about it. Hope this helps!

~Jim (Basiliv)

On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:14 -0400
"Aluvial" wrote:
> I'm looking for information about Baklunish gods.
> Especially a war god if any.
>
> I know that the Suel got a special writeup at some point... I was
>wondering about the Bakluni.
>
> Aluvial

The Road to Ulakand

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:47:34 EST
From: Gary Welsh
Subject: The Road to Ulakand

This is a brief treatise on a merchant road that goes west out of Ket across the plains to Ulakand and thence across the steppes to the far east, to lands that are legendary in the Flanaess.

Ket is on a plateau of sorts, between the Yatil Mountains to the north and the Barrier Peaks to the south. It is a hilly land, heavily forested in the south and central parts (the Bramblewood), and bordered in the west by the Tusman Hills (separates it from Tusmit to the northwest) in the south by the Pen-Wilds, or Pennors (separates it from the Plains of the Paynims [Bayomens]). In the southeast, the hills around the Fals River, and Thornward, have often been the sites of skirmishes and clashes between Bakluni west and the rest of the Flanaess in the east. The swords and spears of Bissel and Veluna have always been pointed against Ket. But there has also been much profitable trade in Ket as -- this place is the crossroads between two vastly different cultures. Caravans go from Lopolla [Hlupallu] in all directions.

To the northeast, a road goes to Molvar, and thence over the mountain road all the way to Krestible in Perrenland. To the east, a road goes around the Bramblewood and down to the river valley to Thornward, in Bissel, and thence east to Veluna, or south to Gran March. To the west, traffic flows down the Tuflik River to Ceshra and Sufmur, and eventually out to the Drawmij Ocean and the coastal cities of Ekbir and Zeif. Also to the west is the wide and dusty Ulakand Road, which fords the Tuflik River and strikes off aay from the Pen-Wilds, with brown and purple mountains in the distance to the south (left hand side) and eventually flatness everywhere. After hundreds of miles of flat, dry plains, the road heads into the trade center of Ulakand [Yolakand], once the capital of a great Paynim Khan.

From Ulakand, one can go south across the lands of Ull, to the settlements in the Ulsprue Mountains in the west (known to be inhabited by cyclopes and cloud giants), or the the hill-town of Kester [Ghastoor] in the southern hills. Across those brown hills, one would pass into an even drier set of plains, the Dry Steppes, which is almost desertlike -- hundreds of miles more to the south, one would eventually come to the mud and brick city of Karnoosh, on Lake Karnoosh -- an ancient site holy to the Baklunish, rebuilt after the Invoked Devastation. This oasis is one of the few sites for hundreds of miles about that support a large population. Karnoosh has routens.s south to Tashbul and the Sulhaut Mountains, and also west, possibly to the mountain kingdom of Zufon (SoD, p. 154)... The Pass of the Clenched Fist is the only pass across the Sulhauts, into the Sea of Dust (SoD, p. 171). In Karnoosh, Paynims, Ullites, dark Jahindis, and even folk of Sa'han and Behow can be seen -- many drawn by the annual slave fair held here (SoD, p. 143).

"Turrets and domes dominated the brick city of Karnoosh. The walled portion of the place -- the actual city -- was relatively small; no more than seven or eight thousand souls were enclosed by the high barriers. All around the city, except on the side that abutted the sorte of the big lake, were ancillary villages and towns that quadrupled or quintupled the total population of the area. Most of these smaller places were liberally dotted with caravansaries and wine shops where traders and laboreres could find housing and amusement during their brief stay.

"Continual streams of merchants came to the city, for Karnoosh was a hub where purveyors from north, south, east and west could exchange commodities.
An open bazaar was always busy. Slaves, spices, animals, ivory, and a mulitude of other goods were sold and traded there. The brick casbah housed sufficient troops to encourage everyone to do business peacefully, but just in case auxiliary forthresses also stood on either flank of the city. The Shah of Karnoosh was very rich and very powerful. There were no strong states around his little realm, so for a century there had been no warfare troubling the place. Such peace and prosperity brought even more merchants to Karnoosh, and it was a thriving cosmopoilis by all measures of the whole of Oerik" (SoD, p. 150).

If one had turned west instead of south, way back at Ulakand, one would have continued along the great plains, skirting the north-reaching arm of the Ulsprues, and heading due west, where one road would branch off north to Antalotol, while another continued west across plains which no map in the Flanaess ever detailed... If you keep going west, you come to another coast, a wedge-like sea that comes in from the Dramidj Ocean, nearly as far south as the latitude Karnoosh is at (29 degrees lattitude, Karnoosh is at about 26 degrees). The road turns south and goes around the coast, where it goes past little port towns, and also inland to the mountains to the south (which are distantly connected to the Sulhauts further east). Here, one is truly in western or central Oerik.

This wedge-shaped sea that cuts southward from the Dramidj divides the Bakluni subcontinent from the rest of western Oerik. To the west and north are the so-called "khanates" and beyond that coast is the rocky, volcanic isle of Fireland.

Re: Humanoids in Greyhawk

Priority: Normal
Date sent: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 21:16:22 -0400
Send reply to: Keith Horsfield
From: Keith Horsfield
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Humanoids in Greyhawk
Originally to: “GailnRoger@aol.com”
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Hi Roger,

I hope you don't mind me sharing this with the GreyTalk list.

>The comments in the 1980 gaz don't rule out humanoids in the Flanaess,
>however.

Well, when parsing 17 year old text meant for gaming purposes and not scholarly research (though some of us go that far) nothing is ever ruled out.

>It is logical that they were there, causing trouble for the Flannae
>and demihumans.

It may be logical in the 'normal' fantasy world, but given several factors I plan on viewing it differently.

1) The Flannae racial make-up just does not strike me as one that has had to deal with much physical strife prior to the migrations. They were easily subjugated (or pushed aside) by the influx of the oerdians and the suel not to mention the warring bands of humanoids.
2) The passages that I mentioned earlier just strike me almost superfluous if there were humanoids already present in the Flanaess east of the mountains (see below). The timeline though sparse makes a point that humanoids were used as mercenaries. Why? This can go without saying unless there was some other import. The passages then emphasize that the humanoids drive the oeridians forward into the Flanaess and then that the hordes fragmented. This implies that the hordes spread out and populated the Flanaess. The only word not used in conjunction with this movement of hordes of humanoids is 'migration'.

FWIW, I'm actually thinking of running a campaign on the following premise:

Timeframe: Prior to the Oeridian, Suel and humanoid migrations. Probably well before, like -5 FT.

Setting: It will be a rather idyllic setting with no humanoids. Faerie/sylvan folk oriented with a heavy accent on celtic myth and the sidhe. The Flannae will either be in their own bronze or iron age.

Conflict: Elf vs. Flannae (man)

Premise: The Flannae were not always such a peaceful nature loving folk and could have repulsed the migrations of the Oeridians, Suloise and humanoids if only they had not been totally subjugated by the elves in a long forgotten war which decimated the Flannae civilization and forced them into a culture of small tribes/clans.

Consequences: Why is there no remaining animosity between the elves and Flannae?

1) This was happened in the far distant past. The very fact it happened prior to the migrations puts it 1,000 years ago. If we were to use this war as the starting date for Flannae calendar we are now talking almost 3,000 years ago. Elves may remember the war and the consequences, but not mere mortal humans.
2) The positives that came out of the subjugation by the elves.

Initially, resistance would be high. But over time the culture of the [missing word?] relation on how to live with the world around the flannae (I.e. nature) take the sting out of losing. Over time as the Flannae adapt the the cultural morals of the elves to their own system of beliefs, history would be rewritten. Here is the beginnings of the 'Old Faith.' With such a [missing word] and the new ethics within the flan culture, harboring animosity towards their own saviors (though this part would probably be forgotten and rewritten so that someone of their own kind came up with the idea) would be counterproductive to their new way of life.

>There just happened to be a lot of them in the Yatils/Barrier
>peaks/Crystalmists chain, and they were suitable for mercenary work if
>you weren't picky. However, they were more trouble than they were
>worth in the long run.

Granted. I was overreaching in my arguments and now have revised them so that humanoid populations were no further east than the barrier mountains (I use this term to include the Yatils, Barrier Peaks, Crystalmists and Hellfurnaces). Why no further east? Those darn pesky demi-humans knew a good thing when they saw it and did their utmost to guard the barrier mountains from incursions.

>I think the Oeridians originally lived around Ull, but abandoned it
>due to pressure from humanoid armies of the Baklunish. The Oeridians
>probably didn't get along with the Baklunish, either.

Hmm, not satisfied here. I understand when looking at the migration pictures in the published material that the oeridians are shown as starting from an area around Ull. But, the closest country with any oeridian blood in it is Ket (see Ref Card #2 FtA) and Ket is along the migration route of the oeridians. I envisioned the Oeridians moving through the Dry Steppes from somewhere to the west. Reasoning. The Dry Stepps prior to the Invoked Devastation were populated by Baklunish and Horse Barbarians. Placing the oeridians in a geographical position surrounded by the baklunish would only make them a subculture of the Baklunish. Something I think we can both agree that they are not.

Also, the relative newness of the oeridian calendar, i.e. 260 OR when the Baklunish-Suloise wars begins, implies that some major event happened relatively recently (when compared to the other human cultures). One theory could be the beginning of the actual oeridian migration from points farther west due to their own catastrophe.

Oeridians of that time period, the Baklunish-Suloise wars and migrations, were also said to have very powerful magics. Yet when we talk about the areas just west of the barrier mountains and look at the published material invariably we are only dealing with either ancient Suloise or Baklunish cultures. This says to me that the oeridians came from farther west.

Lastly, I would like to thank you for your response to this and feedback I've been sending. I know my feedback has been quite blunt at times, but I will strive to offer solutions to any criticisms I may have least well thought out reasoning why my opinion differs.

Keith Horsfield
Member Team OS/2
“To a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail”
E-mail: afn09454@afn.org
Home page: http://www.afn.org/~afn09454
Brought to you by OS/2

Dramidj Ocean

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 99 12:28PM PDT
From: Stéphane Tanguay Add To Address Book Add To Junk
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Dramidj Ocean

Hello Greytalkers !

Being in the process of writing a text about the Dramidj Ocean, I thought some of you could be interested in what I have collected, as far as canonical references go. Unfortunately, the write-up will be done in french.

:-p

Hope this help !

Stéphane Tanguay (stanguay@francomm.com)
Les Fauconniers Gris (ggf@netultra.net)

DRAMIDJ OCEAN

Sources:

From the Ashes, Atlas (FTAA)
From the Ashes, Reference Card (FTARC)

Greyhawk Adventures (GA)
Greyhawk: the Adventure Begins (GAB)
Player's Guide to Greyhawk (PGG)
World of Greyhawk, Catalogue (WOGC)
World of Greyhawk, Folio (WOGF)
World of Greyhawk, Glossography (WOGG)

…its [Dramidj Ocean] warm currents tend to moderate the climate of lands which border it, to a degree similar to several latitudes further south. (WOGF,5) (WOGC,5)

…the northern parts of the plains [of the Paynims] are held by the more civilized states bordering the Dramidj Ocean (WOGF,14) (WOGC,31)

…[Tiger nomads roam from] the Dramidj Ocean to…(WOGF,17) (WOGC,38)

The lands of the Sultan [of Zeif] strech from the Dramidj to…(WOGF,19)(WOGC,43)

The warm currents of the Dramidj make the land [Zeif] very rich…(WOGF,19)(WOGC,43)

This body of water continues far westward. Warm currents from this direction sweep past Zeif and Ekbir and turn northward. In winter this ocean is cloaked in great fog layers, and huge chunks of ice move on its waters as if they were ghost ships. (WOGF,20) (WOGC,47)

The Tuflik empties into the Dramidj Ocean (WOGF,26) (WOG,54)

The…Burneal Forest stretch…from just beyond the shore of the Dramidj Ocean to…(WOGF,21) (WOGC,56)

…ships [from Ekbir] which plied their trade across the Dramidj Ocean. (FTAA,25)

…the richly fertile lands [of Zeif] along the coast, warmed by the currents of the southern Dramidj. (FTAA,44)

The deep blue waters of this great sea stretch far to the west beyond the reach of the mapmaker. Where the warm currents that enrich the coastlands of Zeif and Ekbir flow northward, the collision with the colder waters generates great fogs and icebergs that have been seen as far as south as Ekbir during spring, suggesting the presence of great ices floes in uncharted northern areas. Among the usual seaman’s tales of monsters and terrors od the deep, stories of aquatic deadly puddings that cling to the hulls of ships and rot them away from underneath while slowing passage are not to be taken lightly. (FTAA, 49)

Sailors from Zeif and Ekbir explore the Dramidj Ocean to the west. (PGG,6)

The Dramidj Ocean, the Yatils, Lake Quag, the Vesve Forest and the lands of Iuz form the borders of the Bitter North…(PGG,6)

An execption to the above are those regions adjacent to the Dramidj Ocean, which is known for its unusually warm currents….Fog is common here as cold air from the north passes over the warm sea. Icebergs are often shrouded in fog. (PGG,8)

…[Baklunish fleeing Baklunish-Suloise wars] moving north along the Dramidj Ocean…(PGG,9)

…[The tall tale of] the beast that several centuries ago splashed in the Dramidj Ocean to spare Ekbir and the Tiger Nomads from a severe drought. (PGG,47)

Icebergs (island of ice) seen in the Dramidj Ocean and the Icy Sea undoubtedly once broke off from the fringes of this artic land. (GAB,10)

The fourth and last of Oerth's great oceans, usually called the Dramidj Ocean, abuts part of the northen continent of High Boros, merging with the Solnor and almost encircling the artic wastes. Some cartographers believe the Icy Sea is part of this great circumpolar ocean and not part of the Solnor. (GAB,12)

The Dramidj Ocean narrrows and reaches down through this land [Baklunish Basin], cradling countless islands and strange societieson its shore. The climate here is thought to range from temperate to hot, as the Dramidj Ocean is so warm itslef. (GAB,12)

…the shores of the mysterious Dramidj Ocean…(GAB,14)

…the Baklunish states look westward across the Dramidj Ocean. Ships from Zeif and Ekbir now reportedly cruise the lenght and breadth of this sea, exploring the many island and establishing communicatin with a group of old cities and kingdoms on the far western shores of the ocean. Some ships are said to have gone farther west to search for new realms beyond. (GAB,38)

Specific encounter table (WOGG,15)

01-05 Men, Buccaneers
06-25 Men, Merchants
26-30 Men, Patrol
31-35 Men, Pirates
36-40 Men, raiders (Galley-type craft)
41-00 Standard encounters tables (DMG1, 182+)

(FTARC11)

01-10 Iceberg
11-15 Aquatic deadly pudding
16-25 Men, Buccaneers/Pirates
26-35 Men, Merchant Sailors
36-40 Men, Sailors (Patrol)
41-00 Standard encounters tables (MC5)

Adventures locales

The City Beyond the Gate (DR100, 45): R. Moore suggest, in his Greydex, that the island with the gate could be located in the Dramidj.

Points of interest

Pinnacles of Azor'alq (GA, 89)

The Pinnacles of Azor'alq have haunted Bakluni legend for upwards of 3,000 years. They have been variously described as the ancient dwellings of the gods, the protruding spires of a titanic drowned city, the monumental tombs of the near­mythical First Dynasty of the Bakluni, and the nesting place of phoenixes, rocs, or the Dramidj Ocean's numerous dragons. The epic hero for whom they are named is said to sleep there with his paladins. The last royal house of the Bakluni Empire is said to have fled here from the Invoked Devastation. The Cup and Talisman of Al'Akbar is rumored to reside here. Such a wealth of speculation betokens the fact that few have seen the Pinnacles even at a distance, and (perhaps significantly) fewer still report
any close approach or landing. Mariners regard a sighting of the Pinnacles as an ill omen and will rarely so much as speak of them, and then only when ashore.

It would appear from accounts that the Pinnacles are no more than 50 leagues from the mainland, somewhere in the angle of the Dramidj between Ekbir and Zeif. They are less frequently found than one would think, but this is perhaps accounted for by their being away from the regular shipping lanes, and by the dense fogs peculiar to the Dramidj. Indeed, the Pinnacles are often concealed by banks of fog even when those waters are otherwise clear. Perhaps this is because of the unusual warmth of the waters in their immediate vicinity, and the peculiar calm that seems to envelop the region. Certainly that is what the merchant captains believe; they stay well away from fog banks even on the open ocean, and most vessels carry oars for the express purpose of rapidly removing themselves from regions in which they might be becalmed.

The Pinnacles themselves are massive spires no less than 40 in number (some say 100), in an irregular cluster, none more than two miles from its nearest neighbor. They are perhaps a quarter mile in diameter at the base, circular in cross­section, and rise steeply upward in a regular series of cliffs.. How far they extend downward into the ocean is unknown, but their height above the water is in excess of 1,000 feet. The lower portions are clothed in forests, including massive coniferous trees which are themselves sometimes more than 200 feet tall. These are mixed with lesser trees, some of which cling to the cliffs, and a wealth of lesser ferns, mosses, and flowers. Above these is a cloud­forest of odd fleshy­leaf plants and rare orchids. This fragrant and silent realm contrasts with the highest levels, which are raucous and white­stained with innumerable sea birds; puffins, eider, albatrosses, and others less recognizable. On rare clear days, the Pinnacles may be marked at some distance by the plume of feathered life above them.

The Pinnacles seldom offer an easy landing. Broad though they may be, the shelves between cliffs are seldom conveniently near sea level. In most cases a landing party must climb tens or hundreds of feet upwards from the sea. The difficulty of the terrain, and the mists, numerous waterfalls, and thick vegetation at first conceal the fact that the Pinnacles are not natural formations, or even shaped ones, but are composed of titanic blocks. On rare occasions one encounters openings leading to the interior of these constructions. There is no report of what may be found if one ascends or descends the broad stairways leading away from these bat­haunted cave mouths, or rather doorways.

Whatever else dwells among the pinnacles, it is certain that dragons of all sorts and sizes make their home there, from tiny varieties that sport among the beautiful and unique birds of the forests to huge coiled reptiles.

Notes for the Dungeon Master

Golden, faerie, pseudo­, silver, and mist dragons are all appropriate residents. Rocs, giant eagles, and a phoenix or two may also be included. These live in relative harmony, foraging outward for fish, whales, or even for food on the mainland. All are concerned that no rumor of the Pinnacles reach the outside world, and will either strand or kill intruders (depending on alignment and circumstances) if they possibly can. Treasures to be found include not only the precious things gathered by the intelligent inhabitants but also certain orchids and birds­of­paradise. Some of the latter have been bred by the longer­lived dragons and are regarded as personal property. The guardians and treasures of the interior should be powerful (possibly undead), and the exterior inhabitants do not wish them to be disturbed. The
isle may have human inhabitants.

Thornward (Long)

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:54:21 EST
From: "Wayne S. Rossi"
Subject: Thornward (Long)

Thornward, Occupied Neutral City of
Ruler: Various diplomats and appointees
Population: 5,370

The Lirtlemark of Bissel was long the border state of the Flanaess, at the edge of the Baklunish West. During the Greyhawk Wars, when it fell to its Baklunish compliment Ket, there was a change in the face of the rulers, a bit more proselytization than usual, and a good deal more taxes. Life went on. When Veluna and Gran March negotiated a withdrawal of the Ketite forces, Beygraf Nadaid was most resistant about giving up Thornward, a major source of income for his coffers. The ultimate settlement was that Bissel would be returned to autonomous rule, and Thornward would be ruled by delegated officials from each of the four nations. The citizens of Thornward breathed a sigh of relief. That would not last long. It turned out that Bissel, Gran March, Ket, and Veluna had all had the same idea: use Thornward as a place to rid themselves of corrupt officials. Over the course of a rocky first year (which included more than one open clash of drunken Bisselite and Ketite soldiers), a vague pattern developed. If a map of the city were held so that the Fals River were at top (meaning a Northeast-Southwest orientation instead of a North-South one), the division would look like a large "X." The Northeast quarter is mostly patrolled by Velunese, who are notorious for fleecing the merchants who enter and leave the city by river. Ket has taken up the Northwest quarter, thus giving it control over the major trade gate coming from the Baklunish West. As a protective measure, so the Ketites and Bisselites have no common border within the city, Gran March occupied the Southwest quarter, and Bissel has control over the Southeast. Each of these quarters is now referred to by the nation that holds it at present.
Thornward is a trade city, and now intrigue and bribery are all but a way of life. Each quarter is rife with spies from the other governments, and tavern brawls over political issues are now common (and a well-known quick and easy form of assassination).

Velunese (Northeast) Quarter
A red sash with the seal of Veluna as a pin marks the bureaucracy that rules the Velunese quarter. A demanding, inefficient machine, the docks are run with a clockwork slowness that involves countless cargo searches, endless paperwork, and exorbitant tariffs. Naturally, the more the palms of the bureaucrats are greased, the faster their work will go. The Velunese quarter sees a lot of the trade from the Fals River, and consequently there is a decent-sized market here (though not as great as the large market currently in the Ketite quarter). The law is fairly in tact, and certainly the guards come at a higher price than in the rest of the city (though in Thornward, everyone has a price). Still, it is fairly well-kept, although there is still the stink of corruption and the political brawls that so often erupt in Thornward.

Ketite (Northwest) Quarter
In the Ketite quarter, a degree of racism uncommon in the Flanaess at large takes place: the more Baklunish one looks, the better treatment he will receive. Caravans to and from Ket come through here, and Baklunish merchants are treated significantly better than those who are not. This is where the large open-air marketplace of Thornward is located, and it has taken on a particularly Baklunish air with the years of Ketite rule. The faint smell of spice can be smelled, and there are vendors of all kinds here. Taxes extracted are quite severe, though the exact degree depends upon the race of the merchant in question. As always in Thornward, a little bribe goes a long way. Ketite officials are probably more for sale than most others in the city.
They are easy to bribe, and after a disturbance, there is a relatively small fee in exchange for the guards to ignore the obvious guilty parties and round up the usual suspects. Everything runs fairly smoothly in the Ketite quarter, regardless of the corruption beneath.

Gran March (Southwest) Quarter
If not Veluna, one would have hoped that the traditionally militaristic Gran March would furnish a government free of corruption for Thornward. Unfortunately, it is exactly the opposite; instead of sending its cream off to rule a city that is being occupied to keep away from all-out war, the nobility of Gran March instead used it as a post for the more cowardly and craven. It is run laxly, kept full of arrests and tariffs and the like to ensure that, when anyone of real standing from the Gran March comes, their section of Thornward will seem orderly.

Bissel (Southeast) Quarter
All of the other quarters are utterly corrupt, and unfortunately, the Margrave of Bissel decided that he needed his best and brightest working in Pellak, and sent his worst to Thornward. More than any of the other sections, this one is a mess; uncaring bureaucrats are notorious for tying up caravans and merchants having anything to do with Ket for days for no reason, and they do little better for the rest of the would-be traders. Indeed, the Bisselites are unfriendly to any who were not from Thornward before Bissel fell, which is problematic, since the population beforehand was considerably smaller than it is now. Their price is much higher for non-Bisselites.

The Rulers of Thornward
Reldath of Bissel: Reldath was a minor official in Thornward before the wars, and kept his position through the Ketite occupation. He hates the Ketites, and works to keep the Bisselite quarter relatively free of the Baklunish influence that has prevailed in the rest of the city. His efforts are rather futile, though, and the others would like to see him outed.
Orwen of Veluna: A weaselly bureaucrat who had, through intrigue, worked his way up the Velunese chain of command, Orwen was a man that the Velunese government was glad to see out of Mitrik. He has wormed himself into most of Thornward's better places, and holds the most influence of the four rulers of Thornward. He is a fairly impartial man, and will take a bribe from anyone, provided it is large enough.
Verin of Ket: The most charming of the four leaders in Thornward, Verin is a snake of a man with good grooming, as a noteworthy Velunese priest said upon meeting him. Verin is ambitious, and was probably given the position in Thornward to prevent him from upsetting things in Ket during Nadaid's crucial early years as the Beygraf. Verin is very accomodating to anyone who has the money to pad his purse, but he has a vengeful streak.
Arlas of Gran March: Before Thornward, this portly, snivelling man was just an irritating toady who was capable enough that the military of the Gran March got him out of its hair. There is little that Arlas will not do to make sure that his superiors feel he is doing a good job (regardless of how he is really doing).
Some Personalities of Note in Thornward
Jereth: The proprietor of the Gryphon's Feather, a tavern of considerable note just in the Velunese quarter, is among the most able men in Thornward.
He has a strict policy: no one gets into a political fight while in the Feather. Those who do are quickly escorted to the street, and asked not to come back. However, if someone needs a favor, he can make sure that it's done. It should go without saying that there are great amounts of gambling in every tavern and inn in Thornward.
Erenal: This beautiful courtesan is a master of intrigue, and knows more about Thornward than most criminal masterminds and officials combined. She is the single best source of information on anything that has been talked about in Thornward for three days or more, and is perfectly willing to sell knowledge, if the right price is found.
Tagrent: A noteworthy member of organized crime, Tagrent is probably the most accessible figure in Thornward's underworld (which is not always so "under"). He has an ear for the winds of the less reputable nature, and prospects for the up-and-coming.
Drenil: A Ketite captain of the guard, Drenil is among the best known officers of the law in terms of getting things accomplished in Thornward, be it a false arrest or an unexpected loophole, a prison break, or whatever the imagination can conceive. Additionally, his price is fairly reasonable.

Notes on using this material
The first thing I'd have to say is, watch Casablanca. This was my primary inspiration in my view of Thornward, and the Gryphon's Feather is pretty much like Rick's CafE Americain, down to Jereth, who is a lot like Rick. You'll find tons of inspiration, in setting, theme, and perhaps even plot, in Casablanca. Because this is an overview, I didn't insert any direct intrigues in there; if one is worth mentioning, then a hundred other ones are. The wind blows and there's a new intrigue in Thornward. Things get settled brutally here. Make sure that people remember bribery when they're thinking of Thornward. It's more or less a way of life.

Other than that, have fun.

Wayne

Re: Baklunish Religion: Evris e'Selant ("The True Faith")

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:57:37 EST
From: "Rip Van Wormer"
Subject: Re: Baklunish Religion: Evris e'Selant ("The True Faith")

I was writing a version of Ekbir of my own, and I started consulting other sources, and I finally had something to say about this one:

In a message dated 1/20/00 9:22:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, AshtarX@AOL.COM
writes:

> "Obey the gods not begrudgingly. Instead, offer your obedience to the gods,
> for it is given to the gods to be the great, and to mortal men to be the lesser, yet neither part is fulfilled without its compliment."
> -The Tau Lhan, recorded by the prophetess Rhiavel.

This is very nice and authentic-feeling. I wouldn't be too concerned about what they might do in the RPGA book, especially since you included Al-Akbar as part of Evris e'Selant.

One thing: you might change the name to Evrus al-Selant, to make it seem a little more consistant with other Baklunish words (or else you could change the names of the gods to Istis and e'Akbar, or create and stick to two different spelling structures in the Baklunish lands). Similarly, I would write either Zan Yae and Zuoken or Xan Yae and Xuoken, depending on the area, and either Zan Yae and Geshtae or Zan Yai and Geshtai.

The idea of a new, post-Devestation faith suggests a new kind of script might spread with it. Maybe in the old Baklunish Empire the writing was more similar to Greek (with Greek-sounding gods like Istos and Zan Yai), while we get the pseudo-Arabic script shown on Baklunish heraldry today.

The Gargoyle (Allen Trussell) invented a god that I think would fit in well as a lesser divinity of Evris e'Selant.
Uhuris, Lesser God of Toil, Sufferance, and Perseverance, L/N(E)

And two others that would fit in sufficiently:
Varuna, Lesser God of Cosmic Order, Balance, and Dharma, L/N
Xux, Intermediate God of Death, the Night, the Moon, and Judgement, L/N

Of course, Xux should be occasionally spelled Zuz.

A face of the embryonic refusal,
Rip Van Wormer

Baklunish Faiths: Reverent Order of Guardians (Al'Akbar sect)

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 00 14:23PM PST
From: "Wayne S. Rossi" Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [GREYTALK] Baklunish Faiths: Reverent Order of Guardians (Al'Akbar sect)

All right. Just because I do this stuff as I think of it, I've expanded greatly on the Reverent Order of Guardians from my Al'Akbar writeup, and I think you'll like them. They're the closest I have to a Baklunish sect of paladins, crusaders, and the like. The history at the beginning does eventually lead into the Order. Enjoy!

The Baklunish Faiths
The Reverent Order of Guardians
Sect of the faiths of Al'Akbar, LG Baklunish demigod of Guardianship, Faithfulness, and Duty

History of the Order
In the dark days following the Invoked Devastation, as the survivors of the Baklunish Empire struggled to stay alive, some went to farms and cities and others gave it up for a nomadic lifestyle in the untamed East, harrying passing tribes of Oeridians and the attempting settlers. As the coastal towns of Ekbir and Zeif were slowly growing and expanding, though, the second Bey of Ekbir died without leaving an heir behind. After the strife-filled year of BH 2339 (321 years before the crowning of an Overking in Rauxes), an influential priest of the new, fresh faith of Al'Akbar gathered a large group of followers together and put the town under martial law. The various factions, descended from surviving nobles of the old Empire, all had equally valid claims to the seat of the Bey, as far as the priest could tell. This wise, charismatic leader named Xevian deliberated over what choice would keep the town from falling apart, and came to the conclusion that there was no noble he could support as Bey and withstand attacks from the other families.

After a week of martial law, under mounting tension, Xevian conferred with and gained the support of the region's Ara Datras. The next day, he was crowned as the first Caliph of Ekbir. The valiant followers who had supported Xevian's takeover of the city were given the option to return to their earlier lives, or to be the Caliph's Honor Guard, keeping order in the city and around it. To the new ruler's surprise, every man accepted. A decade later, Xargun died, leaving his son Arimun to the Caliphate. Whereas his father was concerned with establishing and maintaining control over his lands, Arimun (who had been but 12 when his father took the city, but proudly wore the ceremonial tunic of the Honor Guard before his coronation) was a forward-thinker. He declared that each Caliph would choose his successor from amongst the priesthood of Al'Akbar, and instituted a fair, if strict, code of law that is still mostly in place in modern Ekbir. However, it is most notable that Arimun kept the Honor Guard, and expanded their ranks, creating a second tradition that would last for centuries.

A century later, as Xevian III sat on the throne in BH 2457 (a mere 202 years before the Overking), the three border cities of Zeif on the Tuflik-Sefmur, Ceshra, and Hlobala (Lopolla)-flourished. The Honor Guard of Ekbir now paled in comparison to the Zeifa soldiers, especially those of Sefmur who civilized the Tusman Plain. Seeing that the needs of the Baklunish people lay outside of just defending the now-great city of Ekbir, Xevian III freed the Guard from its royal bind, and instead declared that they would take orders from the highest ranking priest of Al'Akbar, be he Caliph or Ou Elshia, or any other rank.

The Honor Guard languished for years, becoming mercenaries on the borderlands, until the Tusman Revolution of BH 2486 (174 years before the Aerdi calendar began), when they had a purpose. At Caliph Arimun IV's urging, the former Honor Guard aided Raenal of Sefmur in becoming independent of Zeif. A mere eight years later, the group (bolstered greatly by many idealistic Tusmites) dissolved only to re-form as the Reverent Order of Guardians, an independent sect of Al'Akbar's church that was formally to take orders from Ou Elshias of the faith in Zeif and the new Tusmit, and from the Caliph himself in Ekbir. Eventually, the Order grew to recognize great theologians of its own as Ou Elshias, and they are granted the same respect as those of the other faiths.

Setup and Dogma

The members of the Reverent Order are known as Veril Datras, which is commonly translated as "Guardian of the Faith" or "Holy Warrior," both of which are very appropriate to the group. There is a rather cell-like hierarchy to the Order, where each Veril Datras of sufficient expertise (9th level) is in charge of from one to four younger Veril Datras. Beyond this, all Veril Datras are viewed as equals, except in deeds, where one is truly judged by his own merits. Great holy warriors have gone down in history as the most valiant and bold of Baklunish heroes. Most members also hold military rank in Ekbir, Tusmit, or Zeif, all of which embrace the Order by now. There are approximately 870 Veril Datras in the Order at present, with 450 in Ekbir, 250 in Tusmit, and 170 in Zeif. Each town has a khasvel (chapter), and each city has several.

Many Veril Datras ride alongside the medium cavalry of the Baklunish nations, and are legendary for leadership as well as fighting skills. They are always distinguishable from an average Bakluni, for a Veril Datras will wear a short-sleeved knee-length black tunic, with a silver and gold silk sash at the waist, and an 8-pointed gold star (reputedly, these are actually gold) over the heart. A similar star on black is painted on the shield of a Veril Datras. Most wear chain mail and wield scimitars, flails, and lances, in true Baklunish fashion. Only a handful (5% of the Order) are foot soldiers; the rest are light cavalry (and also excellent archers) or medium cavalrymen.

The core mission of the Veril Datras is to serve and protect the lands and people of Civilized Bakluna from Paynim or Nomad incursion, and in the case of extremity, from outside civilizations (such as the Flanaess). Beyond that, a member of the Order will almost exclusively choose to protect his homeland from attack by another Baklunish state. 30 such Veril Datras function in the Tusman Hills, fighting alongside Tusmite regulars against the occasional border invasions by Ketite soldiers and mercenaries, and making advances of the Tusmite border as possible. Interestingly, there is not a
stable core of Veril Datras in Ket, with a transient core that rarely numbers above a dozen.

The Reverent Order of Guardians is a greatly law-abiding group, and they tend to be shining examples of the best in Baklunish ethics and propriety. They have been known to dissuade fellow soldiers from much distasteful conduct, much to the delight of the leaders of occupied towns and the like.

Military service is not the only option for a Veril Datras, though. Many are noteworthy adventurers, and they are often called the Baklunish equivalent of the Flanaess's ideal knight, the Paladin. Indeed, there are quite a number of Paladins and Crusaders amongst the Veril Datras, and fighters also. Adventuring Order members can expect hospitality almost anywhere in civilized Bakluna, and in many places in Lopolla (though not the rest of Ket).

Joining the Order

A would-be member of the Reverent Order of Guardians does not have an easy time of it. The first requirement is that he has a sponsor within the Order who is confident of the bravery, loyalty, morality, and skill at arms of the candidate. Should he prove worthy to be a Veril Datras, the candidate will be the sponsor's subordinate. Then, he must pass three tests. First, he must stand on a pedestal while every Veril Datras in the Order's local khasvel (usually about a score) is given the opportunity to hurl insults, strike him with a truncheon, and spit on his person. If he does not cry for mercy, he has passed the first test. The second test requires the participant to be blindfolded and his head dunked in a vat of ice water for more than half a minute, held there by his sponsor, and he may not strike or attempt to free his face. If these two fairly simple trials are passed, there is a trial by arms the next day, and if the applicant lasts for five minutes, he is a Veril Datras, and the black tunic is given to him.

When a member is ready to advance and be free of his superior, he is taken down to Antalotol, and a day's ride south into the Paynim lands. His horse is taken, and he is left with a water skin, a scimitar, and his clothes (no armor) and told to return to Antalotol. Once he does, he is on his own and may sponsor other Veril Datras.

Wayne S. Rossi

Istus

Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:10:07 EST
From: "Wayne S. Rossi"
Subject: Istus (long)

I'm finally back at college, so I can easily post this work. Since Xan Yae and Zuoken are next on the table for me, this is actually the last single-god work in the series of Baklunish religions I'm working on. Enjoy.

Istus
The Colorless and All-colored, Lady of Our Fate
Neutral Greater Goddess of the Baklunish
Fate, Destiny

The Lady of Our Fate is a surprisingly popular goddess, mostly among fatalists and the Baklunish. Istus is truly Neutral; she neither adheres to any pattern nor goes completely without interference, and her ever-reaching strands do not strive toward good or evil. Law and Chaos, Good and Evil, all these forces are a mere part of an ever-repeating cycle without patterns, without certainties, yet without randomness. It is here, buried in thought and on the edge of consciousness, in the depths of the human mind and on the tip of the tongue, in the endless flow of contradictions and certainties, in the delicate point where the absolute and the relative mix, that Istus's faith holds its heart.

Generally, the priesthood of Istus has no formal raiment other than the grey robe; these are worn, traditionally, with no facial covering (in contrast to the Ou Elshias of the Ordered Church of Al'Akbar, who cover their faces for this exact reason). The vast majority of priests of Istus are female. The title of a priestess of Istus is Louc Datras, or Holy Daughter, and the masculine is Coun Datras (Holy Son). The high-ranking priestesses are called Ara Datras, Holy Mother. Ara Datras may be of any age, standing, or level of experience; however, they are outstanding priestesses, and it is said that a true Istus priest can tell an Ara Datras within several minutes of meeting her. Priests wear their hair quite long; upon becoming an initiate, the novice has her head shaven, and she becomes a Louc Datras once it is six inches long (thus, it is reasoned, Istus gives the priestess the precise amount of time she needs to be initiated).

Temples to Istus are generally more or less round; a small tower (containing the chambers for the priests) is in each of the four corners of the temple, corresponding to where the corners of a rectangular temple would be. The main building has a 10' high wall, and a resplendent semicircular dome atop it. Windows above with brilliant latticework (this is usually a masterpiece of abstract art, never making the same impression twice) allow the sunlight to filter in. There are sconces for when the sun does not show. The center is usually no more than a somewhat raised, flat surface; webs are engraved into the stone, and at the center is a circle. Seats are arranged so that all face this center. Since the seats are in four quadrants, four Louc Datras usually chant the Godsday sermon. Elaborate scrying rituals often take place here, involving prayers and meditations, speaking in tongues, and visions through water seeing, for those who can donate significantly enough to turn the Ara Datras to divination. Most divination consists of the subject and a Louc Datras sitting on the central area, cross-legged, hands linked, and the Louc Datras casting stones, or a similar ritual. These are simple, fairly vague, and mostly accurate.

There are no holy writings for the priesthood of Istus; the orthodox members do not believe that the Lady of Our Fate has revealed her will to humankind, nor that humanity would be better directed by such a set of commands as Istus may give. Those who believe in divine revelation tend to believe in the True Faith's Tau Lhan, by the Zeifa prophetess Rhiavel, and as such do not venerate Istus alone. However, here is the core of the dogma, as could be discovered by questioning a Louc Datras:
-Istus has woven a thread for your life; that thread lies in your nature.
-The thread that Istus has woven for you is an individual thread, and yet it is a part of the entire vast tapestry that she weaves.
-The design that Istus has set for you is found in the path of least resistance; by allowing your mind to flow freely, you may realize what that path is.
-You are part of a society, the threads that envelop and surround you. To live poorly is to submit yourself to that society, or to hold yourself above it. To live well is to be a part of it, and to allow your natural flow to join with society.
-Your actions are neither good nor evil. Evil results from acting contrary to your nature; good results from denying your nature to stop evil. Neither of these is desirable.

"The path of least resistance" is of great import in understanding Istus.
Her priestesses are seen as cold, unfeeling, and perhaps arrogant. The actual situation is, simply, that vast or extreme fits of emotion are seen as contrary to this path, and that they hinder the priestess in her understanding of Istus and fate that make her a prize as an advisor or ally. Notably, while tradition does not allow Louc Datras to marry, there is no prohibition (or stigma) placed on intimate affairs; after all, if intimacy comes easily with a person, then it is Istus's will that the coupling occur. (Note that, if it comes with difficulty, the priestess will avoid a relationship, but she will not purposely avoid one that feels natural.)
Likewise, friendship must be won by natural force of personal compatibility, or not at all; if something must be forced, a devotee of Istus will reason that it is not the Lady's will. In situations that are borderline or uncertain, priests will usually make a divination; the result will be adhered to, in almost all cases with extreme ease.

From this, it can be said two things: first, that the faith of Istus is small; second, that it does not proselytize. Proselytization is left to the Al'Akbar followers and the adherents of the True Faith. It is reasoned that, if it is a person's fate to worship Istus, he will find himself drawn to the church, and will believe. If a girl is to serve Istus, she will approach a Louc Datras or Ara Datras and ask to become a priestess; if she does not do so, she is not fated to be a Louc Datras. If a child of the faithful, once aged fourteen, does not wish to attend services but is forced to by a parent, a Louc Datras will take the faithful parents aside and request that the child only enter by his own will.

In government, Istus's priesthood is very popular; they tend to approve of the current ruler, as they hold that anyone born to a position of power was clearly fated to rule; however, when a charismatic person who is capable of rule arises, the priesthood will withdraw for the time of the conflict, and support the winner, who is clearly the one destined to rule. In a time when being a part of such intrigue comes along, the priestesses will normally go with who they find most natural to side with. Additionally, having an understanding of the contradictory ways of the world, priestesses of Istus are generally good court advisors; there is one by the side of the Sultan of Zeif, another who the Caliph of Ekbir confers with, a priestess who is in the court of the Pasha of Tusmit, and a vizier to the Beygraf of Ket. Outside of Civilized Bakluna, where the Louc Datras have less status, the centers of
Istus's worship are in the Flanaess's free cities. There, the cult is several shades more pessimistic, and there is little brotherhood with the solely Baklunish faith. Rituals in the East have been accompanied by things such as incense, music played in a vaguely Baklunish fashion, hangings of cloth, and odd chanting. The Louc Datras of the Baklunish see little need for such rituals.

In terms of rules for priests of Istus, these are set up in the From the Ashes boxed campaign setting. For those without access to this superb work, the priesthoods may still be available online at the Wizards of the Coast website. In any case, I have no need for "powering up" specialty priesthoods, and will not provide any rules detail here.

Wayne S. Rossi

Re: Al'Akbar

Date: Sun, 12 Dec 99 08:27AM PST
From: "Wayne S. Rossi" Add To Address Book Add To Junk Mail
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Al'Akbar

In a message dated 12/12/99 5:12:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, rtaylor@CMC.NET writes:

<< A late question on this: I've been using the "True Faith" of the Gord the Rogue modules as a pantheistic faith, serving Istus, and Al'Akbar as her true prophet. Other gods are honored as well, but Al'Akbar is the primary, along with Istus in her aspect as Fate. Does this gel with anyone else's take on the nomads of the deserts?

Al'Akbar has paladins, and is referred to as "the sword and shield of the true faith" by his warriors. >>

Personally, I'd have to say no. Al'Akbar, in what I do, is an independent god with his own church (in fact, because of his LG nature and ideas that contrast with the other Baklunish gods, I gave him the strongest individual church this side of Istus). He's quite popular in Ekbir and among LG, NG, and LN Paynim tribes.

The Beygraf of Ket is referred to as the "Shield of the True Faith" in the products, also. I would say that the "True Faith" has a lot of Istus worship to it, but also has somewhat of an edge to it, mixing with mostly nontheistic faiths (here, elemental Fire is quite popular, and, though the practitioners would never admit it, there's more than a touch of devil cultism at work in the less...beneficial...Ketite followers). My thought on the whole "True Faith" idea is that, mostly, it's a kinda propagandistic way that certain very strong Ketite priests and such refer to their own religion, and not really a strong, flourishing religion throughout civilized Bakluna.

Besides Al'Akbar, the following religions are popular in the civilized portion of the Baklunish world as I see it:
Istus (diviners, seers, prophets; any sane ruler will have a priestess in his court)
Geshtai & Elemental Water (Fishermen; certain philosophers and monks, as this has ideas not unlike some types of Buddhism)
Xan Yae & Zuoken (this particular pair is most worshipped as such; there are some influences from elemental Air as well)
Elemental Air & Elemental Water (this is a sailor's faith, most commonly found around the docks of Ekbir and Zeif)
Elemental Earth & Elemental Water (mostly farmers; a touch of Geshtai as well)

That's just a few I've thought up so far; once I get into more detail, quite a bit more will be forthcoming.

Wayne

Re: Gods, Oerdian and otherwise (even longer)

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:09:25 -0500
Reply-To: dek efilson@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
From: dek efilson@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Gods, Oerdian and otherwise (even longer)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Since I’ve been the Gods of Oerth series and scouring the various sources for little bits of info which I could exploit, I thought I might jump in to this discussion myself. Kent Matthewson was the original poster.

> I The Problems with the Pantheons
>
> Some problems arise when considering that the gods of GH are real beings in the “game” world, so that unlike the “real” world, it raises these questions in my mind: How many gods can > there realistically be, in total, and how do we resolve overlapping spheres of influence? If each > pantheon has their sky/thunder god, their god of oceans, etc. – the air and water become crowded, conflicting places – who has precedence in the seas, for example – Xerbo or Procan (ignoring that one is a greater and one a lesser god)?

In my campaign the answer is: “eh?” As a GM I’d like to know *everything* about my world, but with limited resources and even more limited time, I leave it up to the gods, whom the Players will most likely never meet, to decide this. In so far as I’m concerned they can fight it out with all of the Forgotten Realms gods and the Birthright gods and…

It comes down to homodiegetic vs. heterodiegetic. In the latter’s case, we worry about which direction the angular momentum is going, what a deity really looks like in person, and whether the carrying capacity of Oerth would really be exceeded if Orcs were fed aphrodisiacs en masse. In the former’s case, we concern ourselves with what the players might think the sun is, how they relate to their gods, and the taboo of talking about Orcsex.

In the last year or so, after a campaign I hosted sputtered and died due to lack of special interest, I began to worry less about giving the history of Oerik in one hour or less at the beginning, and worried more about telling the players the outlandish (and far more interesting) lies that their grandmothers would have told them. I quickly found that no one but me really cared which way the Oerth turned, but rather wanted to hear more atrocity tales about the horrors which Iuz had perpetrated. My players are human! So I guess my answer is… if you’re Oeridian Procan beat the living crap out of Xerbo who now sits in a sea cave crying all day… if not then Xerbo is the One True God of the Sea and Procan’s priests are a bunch of corrupt bastards (even if they do get spells from someone).

> In the “real” world, it was recognized even by the ancient Greeks (Herodotus, for example) that the deities of other pantheons were the gods of the Greeks, but by different names (Herodotus in particular, equates with the gods of Egypt and Asia Minor), and in modern times we recognize certain “archetypal” gods that reappear in differing cosmologies. However, on Oerth, these gods are not variations, but real, distinct beings, so that proposing to fill the “gaps” > in the current pantheons creates more problems than it solves.

The Hindus just consider other gods (generally speaking) to be yet another in their immense pantheon. The Romans’ gods, if they did exist, might not have actually been variations on the Germanic/Norse gods or vice versa, but the Romans thought so. So long as they still received spells ;-) who cared?

> Of course, we currently have such a difficulty in some spheres – Wee Jas/Boccob, Ulaa/Fortubo, Joramy/Pyremius, Rao/Delleb, Lendor/Cyndor, Procan/Xerbo, Ehlonna/Obad-Hai, > and Velnius & the 4 Winds/Phaulkon. Many of these can be resolved on a case-by-case basis, > by differentiating subtle distinctions within their spheres, but it takes some doing (and possibly > fudging)

But why assume that they have to be differentiated at all? I’m asking this, not as a rhetorical question, but as a serious inquiry. Suppose that the gods never get together across cultural pantheons, that because every outer plane is infinite in scope they just don’t run into one another. If the only access they have to Oerth is the *rare* avatar, then their only agents are their worshippers who can compete or cooperate.

> There is also the interesting issue of the merging of faiths due to the Great Migrations. Many > of the deities from various pantheons have since come to be embraced as being common to all > areas (according to the original god list from the ’83 boxed set). This seems appropriate, especially after a thousand years. The more interesting item on the list, however, are the many gods that are not only common, but of no particular ethnic origin. I can only conclude that these > deities were common to all or at least some (more than one) pantheon prior to the Cataclysms. > These deities include St. Cuthbert, Ehlonna, Trithereon, Boccob, and Incabulos, as well as several lesser-known deities. I think it would be appropriate to decide on a case-by-case basis which deities were common to which pantheons (ie Cuthbert perhaps being common to the Oerid > and the Suel, but not the Baklunish or Flan). When drawing up racial pantheons, any or all of > these deities could be included, and factored in when drawing up the cultural traits, political structures, etc. that each race commonly has.

IMC, the ‘common’ deities (of lesser or higher standing) were initially either individual cults or parts of another pantheon all together. As a preview of Gods of Oerth, vol III, the Oeridians were kenotheists in the Hindu sense. That is, every god is great and the greatest one at a time. Praise Celestian, greatest of all gods, in the morning, then pray to Heironeous, chief of power in the gods’ realms and mightiest of all, in the evening. Given this openness and will to recognize gods of all stripes, we see certain absorption and dissemination of religions. That is, the reason that they’re commonly worshipped is because their religions have been changed to a the greatest degree possible w/o being offensive to the gods’ sensibilities. Xenophobic constructs or subversive elements to the cults have been sterilized. “Common” comes to mean not only frequency, but the degree to which the religion has been spread thin over the continent.

Moreover, it will be Kambellian’s thesis that this is absolutely necessary (bloody Oeridian that he is). That is, if any other culture had dominated the subcontinent, we would be looking at a different picture altogether. If the Baklunish peoples (to be Vol II), who were reforming the church of Istus and effectively downsizing the pantheon when the main thrust of their migrations began, were to have dominated the continent these cults would not have been tolerated to any great degree and worship of most gods would have been divided into regional cults. The Suel (to be Vol. IV) would have demanded that their gods, who (according to the Suel) really do determine the events within their spheres of influence, be worshipped as the primary gods. Here again, we see something of a repression and the likelihood that many of the gods would have disappeared.

> II The Oerdians
[Excellent thoughts on the Oeridian pantheon snipped]

Here are some of my own observations. First, we have two sets of brothers, indicating that these gods are thought to have been born and that their interrelationships are a factor of time and history. We can also note that this gives them a mortal quality, at least in the legends.

The pantheon is distinctly patriarchal. You mentioned Obad-Hai, whom I recall being Flan, but aside from her, of all of the intermediate powers, not one is female. Also note that unlike the Suel pantheon, in whose families deity status seems to be hereditary (Kord), the parents of our two sets of brothers, Hextor-Heironeous and Celestian-Fharlanghn, are of little consequence. Whether it is because they were mortals (who gives a damn about them anyway? ) or because they were gods lost to time is a matter which we can debate here ad nauseum without ever getting conclusive evidence.

On the other hand, we don’t (to my knowledge) ever hear of them paying visits to one another. Procan is never found knocking on Celestian’s door asking him to turn down the head of the sun because it makes his oceans evaporate, and Erythnul to our knowledge hasn’t ever invited Telchur over for tea and patries. The many forms of Erythnul seem to hint that he may have come from the humanoids (as opposed to them adopting him). You can tell I’m leaning towards this kind of open-minded adoption hypothesis right through prehistory (similar to what the Greeks did).

Because of the lack of evidence of anything but the most occasional interaction, IMC, the Oeridians are god thieves. Look at the binary Cain-Abel nature of the Hextor-Heironeous pair and compare it to the benign brotherhood of Celestian and Fharlanghn. There doesn’t seem to be a consistent tradition, leading me to view everything through a lens of cultural assimilation.

In my timeline, mostly adapted from OJ1, the Oeridians were the slaves of the Suloise empire. They toiled in the equatorial sun to get what little they could from the soil so that their masters could have time for games and the occasional social gathering. As the original inhabitants of the Plain of Pesh, they had been tribal and each possessing their own god(s) and extremely distinct dialects and even languages. When the Suel conquered the land, the tribes were forced into a mush of cultures. Their treatment and standard of living varied from dynasty to dynasty; some times they had to be paid for their work (a piddly amount).

So each tribe member had to accept her sister’s god. It was a survival thing. Many of those gods have been lost to time for want of worshippers, but we have some in the form of the basic Oeridian pantheon.

To complete the narrative, the Oeridians dribbled out when they could. But, when the time was ripe, they eventually rose and killed a number of their masters in the province of South Pesh. Fearing further uprising, they were emancipated and were force-marched to the north and into the Baklunish empire (who accepted them but resented the influx of impoverished people which devastated the economy, leading to strains in their already bloody relationship with the Suel… and here we go!).

> Comments, please?

Well, you asked for it.  Anyone still reading now gets to go on to round 3 where the special prize is an all-expense paid trip to Ull. All standard disclaimers concerning this all being specific to my campaign apply ad infinitum. We will have to wait and see how much of this is still campaign

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