Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:41:08 -0700
Reply-to: The GREYtalk Discussion List
Sender: The GREYtalk Discussion List
From: Chris Jarvis
Subject: [GREYTALK] The Kings & Queens of Keoland: a long list
X-To: Greyhawk List
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Okay, for everyone who wants to know what the future holds. And because I am getting deathly tired of writing the account of each individual monarch here is the big list.
A couple of notes:
1. Queen V'andree Z'entrull ruled Keoghland up until around OR 367 when she was ousted in the Great Rebellion. For about thirty years nobody was really in charge until Lord Jukka D'avros crowning himself king.
2. King Stiggur was not a nice person. He was fond of poison, surrounded himself with a cadre of killers and assassins, and generally had anyone who disagreed with him murdered. He was poisoned by members of the Angadral.
3. King Garridan was mad. He had most of his children drowned or set on fire. He went through about six wives. He was removed from the throne by the Angadral and was the last of the D'avros monarchs.
4. King Tavish I is credited with beginning Keolish imperialism. The Imperial might of Keoland reached its height under King Mhardos II. And pretty much ended with the death of King Tavish III at the Siege of Westkeep.
5. By the time Tavish IV came to the throne, everybody was pissed. He did his best to hold onto the crown but in OR 1125 died under an assassin's blade. Chaos reigned for about five years following his death.
6. From OR 1130 till OR 1168 a series of generals, mercenaries, and riff-raff attempted to hold the Black Lion Throne.
7. The Korie Dynasty came to the throne on the end of E'mund's spear in OR 1168. They held the throne until the untimely death of King Risto in OR 1208.
8. King Risto left behind him four sons, a fifth was born after his death. The oldest, Emrick, was only nine. And while the Angardral supported the Korie line, none were willing to risk the throne on one so young. The Angardral appointed Risto's chancellor as regent for the young prince. In OR 1215, on the eve of his coronation, Prince Emrick was struck down by an envenomed assassin's arrow. He died rather quickly and a fraction of Addathian Nationalists were blamed. Later that same year the thirteen year old Prince Just was killed in a hunting accident in the Axewood. In OR 1217, the twelve year old Prince Mathe drowned while boating on the Sheldomar. In OR 1221 the fifteen year old Prince Pitar was kidnapped by brigands and vanished into the Hool Marshes. In OR 1222, only the fourteen year old Prince Alric remains. This is the year in which my campaign is set-is the boy going to make it? What do you think?
The Kings and Queens of Keoland
Dynasty
Ruler
Crowned
Life span
Notes
Keogh
Brand Keogh
125
100-160
Founder of Keoghland
Rogan Keogh
160
104-171
Younger brother of Brand
Killian Keogh
171
123-197
Son of Rogan
Sean Keogh
197
172-220
Grandson of Brand
Ronan Keogh
220
195-232
Son of Sean
Merant Keogh
232
215-241
Son of Ronan
Adrich Keogh
241
220-250
Son of Ronan
Ore'elos
Druthox Al'Gra
250
130-274
Great Thamauturj of the Suel
La'ktar Phaulka
277
248-285
Du'ath S'sorkya
285
245-322
Korvee U'mothrok
322
230-330
First Witch-Queen
T'shim Valtross
330
270-352
J'arkor F'flokno
352 245-361
V'andree Z'entrull
361
340-?
Witch-Queen
D'avros
Jukka D'avros
392
352-420
Arto D'avros
415
372-437
Son of Jukka
Jussi D'avros I
437
403-440
Son of Arto
O'tuomo D'avros
440
381-472
Son of Jussi I
Jussi D'avros II
472
441-501
Great-grandson of Jussi I
Kosti D'avros
501
492-585
Boy king, Grandson of Jussi II
Mander D'avros
575
562-577
Boy king, Great-grandson of Kosti
Tobbar D'avros
577
559-582
Great-grandson of Kosti
Simon D'avros
582
550-602
Great-grandson of Kosti
Emalia D'avros-Restin
602
581-605
Queen, daughter of Simon
Dagga D'avros-Polasin
605
581-640
Queen, daughter of Simon
Stiggur D'avros
640
610-652
Son of Emalia
Garridan D'avros
652
622-694
Younger brother of Stiggur, Mad King
Restlin
Belgran Restlin
674
632-691
Proclaimed king by Council
Ivor Restlin
691
670-730
Son of Belgran
Tyvan Restlin
730
719-742
Boy king, Son of Ivor
Gregor Restlin
742
730-765
Boy king, Grandson of Ivor
Mhardos Restlin I
765
731-826
Son of Mhardos I
Faetor Restlin
802
751-826
Son of Mhardos I
Wolstan Restlin
826
810-853
Boy king, Grandson of Faetor
Khelvan Restlin I
853
821-907
Grandson of Faetor
Tavish Restlin I
900
880-945
Great-grandson of Wolstan
Khelvan Restlin II
945
922-981
Grandson of Tavish I
Tavish Restin II
981
960-992
Son of Khelvan II
Mhardos Restin II
992
975-1010
Son of Tavish II
Stephan Restin
1010
990-1034
Son of Mhardos II
Tavish Restin III
1034
1010-1097
Son of Stephan
Tavish Restin IV
1097
1080-1125
Great-grandson of Tavish III
Pretender Kings
Caspian V'adda Roarke
1130
1107-1132
Pirate and amge
Grayson Iron Stark
1142
1101-1145
Mercenary captain
O'ceana Elsen Polasin
1147
1117-1153
Warrior-queen, ambitious noblewoman
Kamral Ov Darth
1154
1120- ?
Half-orc adventurer
Jysson the Green
1154
1114-1154
Thief and mountebank
Meganwald Stormcloud
1154
1082-1157
Pretentious mage
Astorghan Redhand
1157
1117-1168
Brigand-Knight
Korie
E'mund Korie
1168
1102-1175
Stable boy, soldier, and finally king
Vaino Korie
1175
1107-1190
Younger brother of E'mund I
E'mund Korie II
1190
1158-1201
Son of E'mund I
Risto Korie
1201
1174-1208
Son of E'mund II
Kimbertos Skotti
(1223)
1180-
Monday, December 5, 2011
Sunday, November 27, 2011
Re: [GREYTALK] GH WARS
Subj: Re: [GREYTALK] GH WARS
Date: 98-08-04 17:07:18 EDT
From: froon@HOL.FR (Patric Forno)
Sender: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
Reply-to: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Hello Jason, Roger and the list,
-- Message d’origine –
>If you’d like to discuss the events of the Greyhawk Wars with someone and
>work on it as a team, I’d certainly be willing to bounce ideas back and
>forth with you. In particular, I’m very interested in the chronology of the
>Fall of the Sea Princes for my _Saga of Saltmarsh_.
>
Jason, I wanted to answer you privately, but I thought I might get helped better if I mailed the whole GH community. After all, GH is there for this purpose !
I also mailed this to Roger Moore, because I suspect him of having want I want (an Official GH WARS Timeline).
Sorry, nothing on the Sea Princes from me (there is close to nothing concerning dates in the official material).
I have an enormous problem with the GH WARS : I think the wars lasted from 582 to 585, and it is very confusing for me.
The reason for the confusion is the following :
-Goodmonth 584 : Aerdy nuked Almor & Chathold (WARS, 19 Ivid the Undying). The Month of Goodmonth is written in one of those sources, certainly WARS. It must be 584 because the raid from Osson must be in 583 (cannot be in 582 because the whole Vatun affair started in the fall of 582), and Osson is said to “winter” in the Medegia IIRC, with Ivid’s army on the other side of the border, waiting him. So it seems that the crushing of Almor was next year (so 584).
-Later it is told that Ivid V took the leadership of his armies, thinking the Almorian success was due to his strategic skills. He then entered Nyrond and is repelled. He is said to command from Rauxes, using spells and device, and this is a disaster. [IMO, TSR assumes this to happen in the fall of 584 (though this is written anywhere)].
-Then we learn that Ivid is slain during Richfest (not told which year) (WARS,21). As the story is told it is meant to be after the fall of Almor. But Richfest is BEFORE Goodmonth, so the assassination of Ivid V must be in Richfest 585 !!!
So the meeting at Greyhawk must be in Harvester 585, not 584 and the Day of the Great Signing must be in Coldeven 586, not 585. What a mess….
I can’t believe what I’ve just written, and I think it is false, but I would like to know WHERE it is false.
Maybe it is the fall of Almor who is in Goodmonth 583, and not 584 ? I don’t know, and all this WARS affair begins to get me mad !!!!
That’s why I would like to have an OFFICIAL Timeline for the WARS, and I don’t even ask for a monthly one (it would be good anyway), just an EXACT yearly one would suffice !!!!
I don’t ask for a telling of the WARS as the one in the WARS Boxed Set, I would like to see a TIMELINE. I was very confused by the telling of the whole story in the WARS Boxed Set, and even more confused with all errors that slipped in WGR4 and WGR5 about the WARS. For example, WGR5 p 4 tells that the breaking of Chendl’s siege was in Fall 584, but I can’t believe that Chendl has been besieged for a full year (the siege began in 583, isn’t it ?).
I hope Roger has one.
Regards
--------------
Patrice Forno – Marseille – France
froon@hol.fr
Les Fauconniers Gris (ggf@rmm.fr)
Liste de diffusion sur Greyhawk (Oerth@rmm.fr)
Thin Greyhawk Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/GH/FrGRey.htm
French WiF Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/WiF/wif.htm
Jacques Villeneuve Champion du Monde avec B.A.R. !!!
Go Jacques Go !!!
Date: 98-08-04 17:07:18 EDT
From: froon@HOL.FR (Patric Forno)
Sender: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
Reply-to: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (The GREYtalk Discussion List)
To: GREYTALK@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Hello Jason, Roger and the list,
-- Message d’origine –
>If you’d like to discuss the events of the Greyhawk Wars with someone and
>work on it as a team, I’d certainly be willing to bounce ideas back and
>forth with you. In particular, I’m very interested in the chronology of the
>Fall of the Sea Princes for my _Saga of Saltmarsh_.
>
Jason, I wanted to answer you privately, but I thought I might get helped better if I mailed the whole GH community. After all, GH is there for this purpose !
I also mailed this to Roger Moore, because I suspect him of having want I want (an Official GH WARS Timeline).
Sorry, nothing on the Sea Princes from me (there is close to nothing concerning dates in the official material).
I have an enormous problem with the GH WARS : I think the wars lasted from 582 to 585, and it is very confusing for me.
The reason for the confusion is the following :
-Goodmonth 584 : Aerdy nuked Almor & Chathold (WARS, 19 Ivid the Undying). The Month of Goodmonth is written in one of those sources, certainly WARS. It must be 584 because the raid from Osson must be in 583 (cannot be in 582 because the whole Vatun affair started in the fall of 582), and Osson is said to “winter” in the Medegia IIRC, with Ivid’s army on the other side of the border, waiting him. So it seems that the crushing of Almor was next year (so 584).
-Later it is told that Ivid V took the leadership of his armies, thinking the Almorian success was due to his strategic skills. He then entered Nyrond and is repelled. He is said to command from Rauxes, using spells and device, and this is a disaster. [IMO, TSR assumes this to happen in the fall of 584 (though this is written anywhere)].
-Then we learn that Ivid is slain during Richfest (not told which year) (WARS,21). As the story is told it is meant to be after the fall of Almor. But Richfest is BEFORE Goodmonth, so the assassination of Ivid V must be in Richfest 585 !!!
So the meeting at Greyhawk must be in Harvester 585, not 584 and the Day of the Great Signing must be in Coldeven 586, not 585. What a mess….
I can’t believe what I’ve just written, and I think it is false, but I would like to know WHERE it is false.
Maybe it is the fall of Almor who is in Goodmonth 583, and not 584 ? I don’t know, and all this WARS affair begins to get me mad !!!!
That’s why I would like to have an OFFICIAL Timeline for the WARS, and I don’t even ask for a monthly one (it would be good anyway), just an EXACT yearly one would suffice !!!!
I don’t ask for a telling of the WARS as the one in the WARS Boxed Set, I would like to see a TIMELINE. I was very confused by the telling of the whole story in the WARS Boxed Set, and even more confused with all errors that slipped in WGR4 and WGR5 about the WARS. For example, WGR5 p 4 tells that the breaking of Chendl’s siege was in Fall 584, but I can’t believe that Chendl has been besieged for a full year (the siege began in 583, isn’t it ?).
I hope Roger has one.
Regards
--------------
Patrice Forno – Marseille – France
froon@hol.fr
Les Fauconniers Gris (ggf@rmm.fr)
Liste de diffusion sur Greyhawk (Oerth@rmm.fr)
Thin Greyhawk Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/GH/FrGRey.htm
French WiF Page : http://wwwperso.hol.fr/~froon/WiF/wif.htm
Jacques Villeneuve Champion du Monde avec B.A.R. !!!
Go Jacques Go !!!
Monday, February 28, 2011
Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
[greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Monday, December 4, 2006 12:15 PM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>Finally, let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have the adventure being with the PCs traveling from Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of Devarnish. On their way and well within the Archclericy,<[snipped]
I'm happy to concede location back to Bissel, as long as it is a "civilized" area in Bissel. My thinking is that too near the Bramblewood or Dim Forests, men would be too fearful of monstrous incursions to leave their forts abandoned, and we are talking about the antagonists in the first scenario holing up in ruins. Along the Veluna, or even the Gran March, border, security would be much more lax and forts left forgotten.
> the pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron Hills or the Gnarley Forest?<
It needn't be so far, even if we did place the scenario in Veluna. I was thinking in the foothills of the Lorridges.
I had moved my suggestions away from worg-riding goblins because they're so Tolkein, and moved away from the lamia boss idea because I've previously written a scenario where a lamia was the boss villain(ness). Revisiting both hold less appeal for me, as does trying to do Tucker's kobolds again (I already own Dragon Mountain if I wanted that).
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Why does no one ever suggest Tucker's Yak-Men?
Monday, December 4, 2006 12:15 PM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>Finally, let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have the adventure being with the PCs traveling from Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of Devarnish. On their way and well within the Archclericy,<[snipped]
I'm happy to concede location back to Bissel, as long as it is a "civilized" area in Bissel. My thinking is that too near the Bramblewood or Dim Forests, men would be too fearful of monstrous incursions to leave their forts abandoned, and we are talking about the antagonists in the first scenario holing up in ruins. Along the Veluna, or even the Gran March, border, security would be much more lax and forts left forgotten.
> the pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron Hills or the Gnarley Forest?<
It needn't be so far, even if we did place the scenario in Veluna. I was thinking in the foothills of the Lorridges.
I had moved my suggestions away from worg-riding goblins because they're so Tolkein, and moved away from the lamia boss idea because I've previously written a scenario where a lamia was the boss villain(ness). Revisiting both hold less appeal for me, as does trying to do Tucker's kobolds again (I already own Dragon Mountain if I wanted that).
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Why does no one ever suggest Tucker's Yak-Men?
Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Saturday, December 2, 2006 5:50 PM
From: "Joseph Bloch"
To: "David Argall"
Cc: ""Marc-Tizoc \"González\""", greytalk@canonfire.com
If I may suggest something that might be fun and/or interesting...
In the spirit of "Tucker's Kobolds" (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/), why not make the challenge to the PC's increase as the actual HP value of the monsters decreases?
That is, start with "standard" high-HD humanoids like gnolls or ogres.
Then start with ever-better-prepared lower-HD humanoids. A hobgoblin ambush. Then a well-coordinated orc raid. Then a delve into a well-defended goblin camp. Etc. (Those are, obviously, just examples; not a suggestion for the actual encounters).
I think the notion of this sort of "inverted" series of modules, where the challenge grows as the monsters themselves become less individually tough, could be a neat hook to get people interested into playing and running it.
Whatcha think?
Joseph
David Argall wrote:
>>let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and
>>incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have
>>the adventure being with the PCs traveling from
>>Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow
>>travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of
>>pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that
>>features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of
>>Devarnish.
>>
>>On their way and well within the Archclericy, the
>>pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I
>>suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold
>>antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to
>>take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron
>>Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
>>
>>
>>
> Now a few negatives to consider.
>
> If we start with goblins, going down to kobolds is
>just wrong. Our kobolds are supposed to be nuisance
>monsters, not something that might test the party if
>they can handle goblins, on worgs yet. We need to
>move up the hd chain to orcs, gnolls...
>
> We are talking about goblins on worgs [cr2]
>leading the party to lamias [cr6] Unless we just flood
>the scene with unacceptable numbers of goblins, this
>means the party will find one encounter a cakewalk, or
>the adventure a deathtrap. Maybe both.
>
> This is a trial effort by somewhat unskilled
>labor. That means we need to limit the new stuff.
>Anything new is a risk anyway and we will just be
>asking to misjudge these new monsters, again making
>the adventure too easy or hard. As much as we can, we
>should stick to generic.
Saturday, December 2, 2006 5:50 PM
From: "Joseph Bloch"
To: "David Argall"
Cc: ""Marc-Tizoc \"González\"""
If I may suggest something that might be fun and/or interesting...
In the spirit of "Tucker's Kobolds" (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/), why not make the challenge to the PC's increase as the actual HP value of the monsters decreases?
That is, start with "standard" high-HD humanoids like gnolls or ogres.
Then start with ever-better-prepared lower-HD humanoids. A hobgoblin ambush. Then a well-coordinated orc raid. Then a delve into a well-defended goblin camp. Etc. (Those are, obviously, just examples; not a suggestion for the actual encounters).
I think the notion of this sort of "inverted" series of modules, where the challenge grows as the monsters themselves become less individually tough, could be a neat hook to get people interested into playing and running it.
Whatcha think?
Joseph
David Argall wrote:
>>let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and
>>incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have
>>the adventure being with the PCs traveling from
>>Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow
>>travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of
>>pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that
>>features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of
>>Devarnish.
>>
>>On their way and well within the Archclericy, the
>>pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I
>>suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold
>>antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to
>>take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron
>>Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
>>
>>
>>
> Now a few negatives to consider.
>
> If we start with goblins, going down to kobolds is
>just wrong. Our kobolds are supposed to be nuisance
>monsters, not something that might test the party if
>they can handle goblins, on worgs yet. We need to
>move up the hd chain to orcs, gnolls...
>
> We are talking about goblins on worgs [cr2]
>leading the party to lamias [cr6] Unless we just flood
>the scene with unacceptable numbers of goblins, this
>means the party will find one encounter a cakewalk, or
>the adventure a deathtrap. Maybe both.
>
> This is a trial effort by somewhat unskilled
>labor. That means we need to limit the new stuff.
>Anything new is a risk anyway and we will just be
>asking to misjudge these new monsters, again making
>the adventure too easy or hard. As much as we can, we
>should stick to generic.
Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Saturday, December 2, 2006 5:21 PM
From: "David Argall"
To: "Marc-Tizoc González", greytalk@canonfire.com
> let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and
> incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have
> the adventure being with the PCs traveling from
> Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow
> travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of
> pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that
> features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of
> Devarnish.
>
> On their way and well within the Archclericy, the
> pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I
> suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold
> antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to
> take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron
> Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
>
Now a few negatives to consider.
If we start with goblins, going down to kobolds is just wrong. Our kobolds are supposed to be nuisance monsters, not something that might test the party if
they can handle goblins, on worgs yet. We need to move up the hd chain to orcs, gnolls...
We are talking about goblins on worgs [cr2] leading the party to lamias [cr6] Unless we just flood the scene with unacceptable numbers of goblins, this means the party will find one encounter a cakewalk, or the adventure a deathtrap. Maybe both.
This is a trial effort by somewhat unskilled labor. That means we need to limit the new stuff. Anything new is a risk anyway and we will just be asking to misjudge these new monsters, again making the adventure too easy or hard. As much as we can, we should stick to generic.
Yours for less government
David Argall
Saturday, December 2, 2006 5:21 PM
From: "David Argall"
To: "Marc-Tizoc González"
> let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and
> incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have
> the adventure being with the PCs traveling from
> Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow
> travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of
> pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that
> features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of
> Devarnish.
>
> On their way and well within the Archclericy, the
> pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I
> suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold
> antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to
> take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron
> Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
>
Now a few negatives to consider.
If we start with goblins, going down to kobolds is just wrong. Our kobolds are supposed to be nuisance monsters, not something that might test the party if
they can handle goblins, on worgs yet. We need to move up the hd chain to orcs, gnolls...
We are talking about goblins on worgs [cr2] leading the party to lamias [cr6] Unless we just flood the scene with unacceptable numbers of goblins, this means the party will find one encounter a cakewalk, or the adventure a deathtrap. Maybe both.
This is a trial effort by somewhat unskilled labor. That means we need to limit the new stuff. Anything new is a risk anyway and we will just be asking to misjudge these new monsters, again making the adventure too easy or hard. As much as we can, we should stick to generic.
Yours for less government
David Argall
Friday, February 25, 2011
Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Saturday, December 2, 2006 10:57 AM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
I'm happy to continue using the GreyTalk listserv, since this was one of my first and most frequent forum in which to contribute. I mentioned the CF! fora and the GreyChat because those places have much more active contributors, and some of them have specifically stated their reasons for eschewing GreyTalk.
Regarding Jim's suggestion to use the EEG, I'm happy to do so because I've translated the "Malgoth" that Greg Vaughn introduced (and Wizards incorporated in the Hordes of the Abyss) into an aspect or avatar of the EEG, which forgot its origin and developed independent sentience in my Shadows on the March campaign. As I've imagined and campaigned it so far, the Malgoth in Istivin is being "countered" by the drow expatriates of House Eilservs (information not yet discovered by my PCs).
However, I think that later on, the GreyChat will be useful for the project because recorded realtime communication is highly efficient. Regarding JZ's objections, I think they were always misplaced due to his personal inability to accept criticism. As anyone whose texts have been edited knows, the ability to accept criticism does not come naturally but rather is a process of socialization and recognition of the importance of one's audience.
Finally, let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have the adventure being with the PCs traveling from Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of Devarnish.
On their way and well within the Archclericy, the pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
MTG
Scott wrote:
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project;<
I would not participate on Canonfire! directly. The whole point of this was to re-energize the Greytalk list! But if people wanted to work on it on Canonfire!, I would post my feedback here and anyone could make use of it as they saw fit.
>and 2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.<
I couldn't make that, especially not at the regular time, and I fear anyone left out of the chats would feel cut out of the brainstorming loop (remember Zavoda's anti-chat rants?).
>I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.
>For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.<
A worthwhile reason to keep the first adventure focused in Bissel. I suppose I am biased by preferring Veluna as a setting.
>However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.<
I don't recognize the name, but hopefully someone will and come forward.
>Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.<
The gate would not be accessible, and only backstory info until, perhaps, the third adventure.
>Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).<
That's how desperate things got in the final days of the Hateful Wars (though, if you believe Living Greyhawk tournaments, the Lorridges are still full of giants!). I like Jim's suggestion, from another post, about the Elder Elemental God having a hand in this.
>Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.<
Much better than what I suggested.
>Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.<
Perhaps I did, but I don't mind anything I threw out there being vetoed or overwritten. The important thing is to keep sharing more stuff, even if it is tangental to what is currently being discussed. Any ideas that can't be used "now" might be shifted into the next adventure or the one after that.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Saturday, December 2, 2006 10:57 AM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
I'm happy to continue using the GreyTalk listserv, since this was one of my first and most frequent forum in which to contribute. I mentioned the CF! fora and the GreyChat because those places have much more active contributors, and some of them have specifically stated their reasons for eschewing GreyTalk.
Regarding Jim's suggestion to use the EEG, I'm happy to do so because I've translated the "Malgoth" that Greg Vaughn introduced (and Wizards incorporated in the Hordes of the Abyss) into an aspect or avatar of the EEG, which forgot its origin and developed independent sentience in my Shadows on the March campaign. As I've imagined and campaigned it so far, the Malgoth in Istivin is being "countered" by the drow expatriates of House Eilservs (information not yet discovered by my PCs).
However, I think that later on, the GreyChat will be useful for the project because recorded realtime communication is highly efficient. Regarding JZ's objections, I think they were always misplaced due to his personal inability to accept criticism. As anyone whose texts have been edited knows, the ability to accept criticism does not come naturally but rather is a process of socialization and recognition of the importance of one's audience.
Finally, let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have the adventure being with the PCs traveling from Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of Devarnish.
On their way and well within the Archclericy, the pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
MTG
Scott
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project;<
I would not participate on Canonfire! directly. The whole point of this was to re-energize the Greytalk list! But if people wanted to work on it on Canonfire!, I would post my feedback here and anyone could make use of it as they saw fit.
>and 2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.<
I couldn't make that, especially not at the regular time, and I fear anyone left out of the chats would feel cut out of the brainstorming loop (remember Zavoda's anti-chat rants?).
>I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.
>For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.<
A worthwhile reason to keep the first adventure focused in Bissel. I suppose I am biased by preferring Veluna as a setting.
>However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.<
I don't recognize the name, but hopefully someone will and come forward.
>Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.<
The gate would not be accessible, and only backstory info until, perhaps, the third adventure.
>Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).<
That's how desperate things got in the final days of the Hateful Wars (though, if you believe Living Greyhawk tournaments, the Lorridges are still full of giants!). I like Jim's suggestion, from another post, about the Elder Elemental God having a hand in this.
>Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.<
Much better than what I suggested.
>Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.<
Perhaps I did, but I don't mind anything I threw out there being vetoed or overwritten. The important thing is to keep sharing more stuff, even if it is tangental to what is currently being discussed. Any ideas that can't be used "now" might be shifted into the next adventure or the one after that.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
[greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:23 AM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project;<
I would not participate on Canonfire! directly. The whole point of this was to re-energize the Greytalk list! But if people wanted to work on it on Canonfire!, I would post my feedback here and anyone could make use of it as they saw fit.
>and 2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.<
I couldn't make that, especially not at the regular time, and I fear anyone left out of the chats would feel cut out of the brainstorming loop (remember Zavoda's anti-chat rants?).
>I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.
>For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.<
A worthwhile reason to keep the first adventure focused in Bissel. I suppose I am biased by preferring Veluna as a setting.
>However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.<
I don't recognize the name, but hopefully someone will and come forward.
>Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.<
The gate would not be accessible, and only backstory info until, perhaps, the third adventure.
>Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).<
That's how desperate things got in the final days of the Hateful Wars (though, if you believe Living Greyhawk tournaments, the Lorridges are still full of giants!). I like Jim's suggestion, from another post, about the Elder Elemental God having a hand in this.
>Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.<
Much better than what I suggested.
>Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.<
Perhaps I did, but I don't mind anything I threw out there being vetoed or overwritten. The important thing is to keep sharing more stuff, even if it is tangental to what is currently being discussed. Any ideas that can't be used "now" might be shifted into the next adventure or the one after that.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Yak-Men have a 2nd-level spell called brain storm that makes it rain brains on the enemy...
Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:23 AM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project;<
I would not participate on Canonfire! directly. The whole point of this was to re-energize the Greytalk list! But if people wanted to work on it on Canonfire!, I would post my feedback here and anyone could make use of it as they saw fit.
>and 2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.<
I couldn't make that, especially not at the regular time, and I fear anyone left out of the chats would feel cut out of the brainstorming loop (remember Zavoda's anti-chat rants?).
>I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.
>For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.<
A worthwhile reason to keep the first adventure focused in Bissel. I suppose I am biased by preferring Veluna as a setting.
>However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.<
I don't recognize the name, but hopefully someone will and come forward.
>Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.<
The gate would not be accessible, and only backstory info until, perhaps, the third adventure.
>Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).<
That's how desperate things got in the final days of the Hateful Wars (though, if you believe Living Greyhawk tournaments, the Lorridges are still full of giants!). I like Jim's suggestion, from another post, about the Elder Elemental God having a hand in this.
>Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.<
Much better than what I suggested.
>Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.<
Perhaps I did, but I don't mind anything I threw out there being vetoed or overwritten. The important thing is to keep sharing more stuff, even if it is tangental to what is currently being discussed. Any ideas that can't be used "now" might be shifted into the next adventure or the one after that.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Yak-Men have a 2nd-level spell called brain storm that makes it rain brains on the enemy...
Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:38 PM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hey folks,
Thanks to Scott's public response and two other posters' private responses. With four interested people, we can form a good working group and should make some decisions, such as:
1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project; and
2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.
I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.
For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.
However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.
Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.
Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).
Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.
Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.
MTG
PS - Please comment publicly so as to encourage further participation. If you really prefer private emails, please explicitly instruct me to respond privately.
Scott wrote:
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:[snipped]
Can this guy organize or what?
I agree we should keep to, at most, three linked adventures. If we can actually pull that off as a group, THEN we could get more ambitious. I also think we will have more participation if, instead of splitting writing chores up evenly, we simply repost what we have so far with something(s) new added each time, so that everyone has the chance to flesh out any part of the adventure, and more and more levels of detail are slowly added.
>Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.
>If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society <
My thoughts: Can we jog this adventure across the Lorridges to Veluna? My thinking is that Bissel is more of a frontier area than Veluna and old forts are less likely to be left abandoned on the frontier. Now, in nice, safe Veluna, I could see a lot of old forts from the Hateful Wars being left abandoned. Who needs them now?
In the final days of the Hateful Wars, a tribe of goblins found unexpected allies in a hidden enclave of kuo-toa. Still not expecting their coalition to turn the tide of war, they instead pooled their shamans and priests and prayed for help to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp. They, or something else, answered those prayers and whisked a large group of goblins and some kuo-toa through a temporary gate to somewhere else.
Now the goblins and kuo-toa that disappeared all those years ago have come back, and returned changed. The goblins are shorter, more gargoyle-like in appearance, and have innate cantrips/glamours. The kuo-toa have become fire-based creatures, capable of generating fireballs between two or more of them. They only lacked a leader, having known whisked away with them. That was before a will-o-the-wisp found them, and remembered them. A hundred years ago, this will-o-the-wisp had been a young boggart aiding the goblins and witnessed the departure. It cannot communicate with them, but it can literally lead them as a guide. It led them to an old fort, abandoned some 60 years now, near the Lorridges and they began using it as their base. Now they are abducting people to sacrifice, hoping it will open the gate to somewhere else so more of their kind can come back.
The transmorgrified goblins and kuo-toa are becoming so successful that an agent of the Horned Society has already sought them out and found them. And the goblins could have worgs too. Thoughts?
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:38 PM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hey folks,
Thanks to Scott's public response and two other posters' private responses. With four interested people, we can form a good working group and should make some decisions, such as:
1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project; and
2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.
I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.
For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.
However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.
Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.
Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).
Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.
Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.
MTG
PS - Please comment publicly so as to encourage further participation. If you really prefer private emails, please explicitly instruct me to respond privately.
Scott
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:[snipped]
Can this guy organize or what?
I agree we should keep to, at most, three linked adventures. If we can actually pull that off as a group, THEN we could get more ambitious. I also think we will have more participation if, instead of splitting writing chores up evenly, we simply repost what we have so far with something(s) new added each time, so that everyone has the chance to flesh out any part of the adventure, and more and more levels of detail are slowly added.
>Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.
>If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society <
My thoughts: Can we jog this adventure across the Lorridges to Veluna? My thinking is that Bissel is more of a frontier area than Veluna and old forts are less likely to be left abandoned on the frontier. Now, in nice, safe Veluna, I could see a lot of old forts from the Hateful Wars being left abandoned. Who needs them now?
In the final days of the Hateful Wars, a tribe of goblins found unexpected allies in a hidden enclave of kuo-toa. Still not expecting their coalition to turn the tide of war, they instead pooled their shamans and priests and prayed for help to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp. They, or something else, answered those prayers and whisked a large group of goblins and some kuo-toa through a temporary gate to somewhere else.
Now the goblins and kuo-toa that disappeared all those years ago have come back, and returned changed. The goblins are shorter, more gargoyle-like in appearance, and have innate cantrips/glamours. The kuo-toa have become fire-based creatures, capable of generating fireballs between two or more of them. They only lacked a leader, having known whisked away with them. That was before a will-o-the-wisp found them, and remembered them. A hundred years ago, this will-o-the-wisp had been a young boggart aiding the goblins and witnessed the departure. It cannot communicate with them, but it can literally lead them as a guide. It led them to an old fort, abandoned some 60 years now, near the Lorridges and they began using it as their base. Now they are abducting people to sacrifice, hoping it will open the gate to somewhere else so more of their kind can come back.
The transmorgrified goblins and kuo-toa are becoming so successful that an agent of the Horned Society has already sought them out and found them. And the goblins could have worgs too. Thoughts?
Thursday, February 24, 2011
Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
[greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:05 PM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:[snipped]
Can this guy organize or what?
I agree we should keep to, at most, three linked adventures. If we can actually pull that off as a group, THEN we could get more ambitious. I also think we will have more participation if, instead of splitting writing chores up evenly, we simply repost what we have so far with something(s) new added each time, so that everyone has the chance to flesh out any part of the adventure, and more and more levels of detail are slowly added.
>Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.
>If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society <
My thoughts: Can we jog this adventure across the Lorridges to Veluna? My thinking is that Bissel is more of a frontier area than Veluna and old forts are less likely to be left abandoned on the frontier. Now, in nice, safe Veluna, I could see a lot of old forts from the Hateful Wars being left abandoned. Who needs them now?
In the final days of the Hateful Wars, a tribe of goblins found unexpected allies in a hidden enclave of kuo-toa. Still not expecting their coalition to turn the tide of war, they instead pooled their shamans and priests and prayed for help to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp. They, or something else, answered those prayers and whisked a large group of goblins and some kuo-toa through a temporary gate to somewhere else.
Now the goblins and kuo-toa that disappeared all those years ago have come back, and returned changed. The goblins are shorter, more gargoyle-like in appearance, and have innate cantrips/glamours. The kuo-toa have become fire-based creatures, capable of generating fireballs between two or more of them. They only lacked a leader, having known whisked away with them. That was before a will-o-the-wisp found them, and remembered them. A hundred years ago, this will-o-the-wisp had been a young boggart aiding the goblins and witnessed the departure. It cannot communicate with them, but it can literally lead them as a guide. It led them to an old fort, abandoned some 60 years now, near the Lorridges and they began using it as their base. Now they are abducting people to sacrifice, hoping it will open the gate to somewhere else so more of their kind can come back.
The transmorgrified goblins and kuo-toa are becoming so successful that an agent of the Horned Society has already sought them out and found them. And the goblins could have worgs too. Thoughts?
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Yak-Men ride "worgs," but those are giant robot wolves that fire missiles...
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:05 PM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Hi all,
Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:[snipped]
Can this guy organize or what?
I agree we should keep to, at most, three linked adventures. If we can actually pull that off as a group, THEN we could get more ambitious. I also think we will have more participation if, instead of splitting writing chores up evenly, we simply repost what we have so far with something(s) new added each time, so that everyone has the chance to flesh out any part of the adventure, and more and more levels of detail are slowly added.
>Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.
>If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society <
My thoughts: Can we jog this adventure across the Lorridges to Veluna? My thinking is that Bissel is more of a frontier area than Veluna and old forts are less likely to be left abandoned on the frontier. Now, in nice, safe Veluna, I could see a lot of old forts from the Hateful Wars being left abandoned. Who needs them now?
In the final days of the Hateful Wars, a tribe of goblins found unexpected allies in a hidden enclave of kuo-toa. Still not expecting their coalition to turn the tide of war, they instead pooled their shamans and priests and prayed for help to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp. They, or something else, answered those prayers and whisked a large group of goblins and some kuo-toa through a temporary gate to somewhere else.
Now the goblins and kuo-toa that disappeared all those years ago have come back, and returned changed. The goblins are shorter, more gargoyle-like in appearance, and have innate cantrips/glamours. The kuo-toa have become fire-based creatures, capable of generating fireballs between two or more of them. They only lacked a leader, having known whisked away with them. That was before a will-o-the-wisp found them, and remembered them. A hundred years ago, this will-o-the-wisp had been a young boggart aiding the goblins and witnessed the departure. It cannot communicate with them, but it can literally lead them as a guide. It led them to an old fort, abandoned some 60 years now, near the Lorridges and they began using it as their base. Now they are abducting people to sacrifice, hoping it will open the gate to somewhere else so more of their kind can come back.
The transmorgrified goblins and kuo-toa are becoming so successful that an agent of the Horned Society has already sought them out and found them. And the goblins could have worgs too. Thoughts?
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Yak-Men ride "worgs," but those are giant robot wolves that fire missiles...
Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:55 PM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Great to see the list alive!
While I appreciate Joseph Bloch’s comment (and am excited to see him post!), one of Dungeon’s new ideas, the “Campaign Arc,” seems useful for the proposed project and much more viable than a GreyTalk Adventure Path. The Campaign Arc is basically a trilogy of adventures, much like the old modules’ series.
In addition to three adventures being more manageable than twelve, the smaller number of proposed adventures may encourage participation from people interested in different regions of the Flanaess. We could form one or more working groups, perhaps even inspiring each group by providing updates via the list.
As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:
1. Basiliv’s list of locations, characters, and monsters;
2. Gerall Kahla’s suggestions re investigating UnderOerth or the Sea of Dust;
3. David Argall’s suggestion to start in Keoland before venturing west;
4. Aeolius’s suggestion re hags;
5. Scott Casper’s ordered list of locations; and
6. Scott’s ideas about old school monsters and specification re Furyondy and the Cold Marshes
Because I presently campaign in Sterich, I am generally more interested in the western Campaign Arc idea (starting in Keoland, venturing to the Yeomanry, and then into Slerotin’s Tunnel and the Sea of Dust). However, I’d prefer not to design an adventure into the Crystalmist-Hellfurances UnderOerth or the Sea of Dust, since they’ve already been explored in published modules, LGJ or OJ articles, or Randy Richards.
I propose adapting and integrating the ideas into the following:
Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.
If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society
Adventure 2: The noble asks the PCs to investigate the ruins further. While doing so, they are meet a small expedition commissioned by Evard the Black (a fact initially unknown to the PCs) to investigate the ruins. If the PCs are hostile, the NPC party responds in kind. If the PCs cooperate, the NPC party repays the PCs by asking their further help with a nearby fort (in the Bramblewood?). Along the way, the parties encounter kech, giant spiders, and ettercap. If the PCs defeat these monsters, they attract the attention of the hag covey that oversees this part of the woods.
At the fort, the PCs learn that kobolds are assembling significant warbands, apparently intending to raid into the Highvale. Skirmishing with or scouting them, the PCs are separated from the remaining NPCs. Should the PCs return to their noble patron in Bissel, she or he sends them back, as scouts for a larger force. Should the PCs act otherwise, eventually they should enter the Highvale and help defeat the kobold raiders, reuniting with the remaining NPCs, and meeting an elven sage in Highfolk, who informs them about the hag covey in the Bramblewood, discusses what the PCs have learned about the Horned Society, and attempts to recruit the PCs to investigate the hag covey.
Adventure 3: The PCs attempt to locate the Bramblewood hag covey, whether they were persuaded by the Highfolk sage or so instructed by their noble patron (who has unknown to the PCs become dominated by a lamia noble that is antagonistic to the covey).
Their discovery of the covey’s apparent cave domicile leads them beneath the mountains, where they encounter at least one roper and unwittingly enter a conflict between illithids, githzerai (or githyanki), and cloakers. The PCs may tip the balance or be smashed on the scales. Additionally, they may find the remaining hags (who have fled the surface due to the lamia noble’s machinations) to be implacable enemies or wary allies.
After significant conflict, the PCs fight their way to the surface and find themselves in Perrenland, near Lake Quag.
***
I’ve run out of time to produce ideas for how to connect this part of the adventure to the Cold Marshes and to incorporate further ancient Flan or Baklunish cultures.
I really like Scott’s suggestions regarding the conflict between the Blackwater hag covey and Iuz!
MTG
Scott wrote:
Hi all,
Public interest in the new cooperative project seems to have died off already, or at least publicly. Still...
"Aeolius" wrote:
>In BPAA, I devised the Covyn; three hag coveys, one epic-level
covey, and one leader - 13 hags in all.
>As far as other hags go I've been working on a few, starting with
the squalus. Much as a winter hag is the offspring of a greenhag and
ice troll and the dune hag is born of the union between wasteland
troll and greenhag, the shoal hag or squalus is parented by a
greenhag and scrag.
>I'm also revamping my Blackwater (new domain from Stormwrack)
hags. Envision the remains of a slain sea hag covey, animated into a
single undead creature by Blackwater. I got my inspiration for the
three-made-one from this: http://www.designtoscano.com/images/us/
local/products/viewlarger/DB51037_vl.jpg Considering how many hags I
am likely to unleash upon Turucambi, I think the Blackwater Hag will
be [expletive deleted]-bent upon slaying her living sisters.<
Perhaps one of these coven of hags has come to Furyondy to kidnap someone important (the Viscount of the March? his wife?) and take him deep into Iuz's territory. Everyone will assume this is Iuz's plot, but Iuz's forces are after the hags too to get their hands on their prisoner. The hags are actually delivering a sacrifice to a blackwater hag in the Cold Marshes. In exchange for the sacrifice, the blackwater hag will stop trying to kill the other hags.
Anyone interested in working on that?
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:55 PM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Great to see the list alive!
While I appreciate Joseph Bloch’s comment (and am excited to see him post!), one of Dungeon’s new ideas, the “Campaign Arc,” seems useful for the proposed project and much more viable than a GreyTalk Adventure Path. The Campaign Arc is basically a trilogy of adventures, much like the old modules’ series.
In addition to three adventures being more manageable than twelve, the smaller number of proposed adventures may encourage participation from people interested in different regions of the Flanaess. We could form one or more working groups, perhaps even inspiring each group by providing updates via the list.
As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:
1. Basiliv’s list of locations, characters, and monsters;
2. Gerall Kahla’s suggestions re investigating UnderOerth or the Sea of Dust;
3. David Argall’s suggestion to start in Keoland before venturing west;
4. Aeolius’s suggestion re hags;
5. Scott Casper’s ordered list of locations; and
6. Scott’s ideas about old school monsters and specification re Furyondy and the Cold Marshes
Because I presently campaign in Sterich, I am generally more interested in the western Campaign Arc idea (starting in Keoland, venturing to the Yeomanry, and then into Slerotin’s Tunnel and the Sea of Dust). However, I’d prefer not to design an adventure into the Crystalmist-Hellfurances UnderOerth or the Sea of Dust, since they’ve already been explored in published modules, LGJ or OJ articles, or Randy Richards.
I propose adapting and integrating the ideas into the following:
Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.
If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society
Adventure 2: The noble asks the PCs to investigate the ruins further. While doing so, they are meet a small expedition commissioned by Evard the Black (a fact initially unknown to the PCs) to investigate the ruins. If the PCs are hostile, the NPC party responds in kind. If the PCs cooperate, the NPC party repays the PCs by asking their further help with a nearby fort (in the Bramblewood?). Along the way, the parties encounter kech, giant spiders, and ettercap. If the PCs defeat these monsters, they attract the attention of the hag covey that oversees this part of the woods.
At the fort, the PCs learn that kobolds are assembling significant warbands, apparently intending to raid into the Highvale. Skirmishing with or scouting them, the PCs are separated from the remaining NPCs. Should the PCs return to their noble patron in Bissel, she or he sends them back, as scouts for a larger force. Should the PCs act otherwise, eventually they should enter the Highvale and help defeat the kobold raiders, reuniting with the remaining NPCs, and meeting an elven sage in Highfolk, who informs them about the hag covey in the Bramblewood, discusses what the PCs have learned about the Horned Society, and attempts to recruit the PCs to investigate the hag covey.
Adventure 3: The PCs attempt to locate the Bramblewood hag covey, whether they were persuaded by the Highfolk sage or so instructed by their noble patron (who has unknown to the PCs become dominated by a lamia noble that is antagonistic to the covey).
Their discovery of the covey’s apparent cave domicile leads them beneath the mountains, where they encounter at least one roper and unwittingly enter a conflict between illithids, githzerai (or githyanki), and cloakers. The PCs may tip the balance or be smashed on the scales. Additionally, they may find the remaining hags (who have fled the surface due to the lamia noble’s machinations) to be implacable enemies or wary allies.
After significant conflict, the PCs fight their way to the surface and find themselves in Perrenland, near Lake Quag.
***
I’ve run out of time to produce ideas for how to connect this part of the adventure to the Cold Marshes and to incorporate further ancient Flan or Baklunish cultures.
I really like Scott’s suggestions regarding the conflict between the Blackwater hag covey and Iuz!
MTG
Scott
Hi all,
Public interest in the new cooperative project seems to have died off already, or at least publicly. Still...
"Aeolius" wrote:
>In BPAA, I devised the Covyn; three hag coveys, one epic-level
covey, and one leader - 13 hags in all.
>As far as other hags go I've been working on a few, starting with
the squalus. Much as a winter hag is the offspring of a greenhag and
ice troll and the dune hag is born of the union between wasteland
troll and greenhag, the shoal hag or squalus is parented by a
greenhag and scrag.
>I'm also revamping my Blackwater (new domain from Stormwrack)
hags. Envision the remains of a slain sea hag covey, animated into a
single undead creature by Blackwater. I got my inspiration for the
three-made-one from this: http://www.designtoscano.com/images/us/
local/products/viewlarger/DB51037_vl.jpg Considering how many hags I
am likely to unleash upon Turucambi, I think the Blackwater Hag will
be [expletive deleted]-bent upon slaying her living sisters.<
Perhaps one of these coven of hags has come to Furyondy to kidnap someone important (the Viscount of the March? his wife?) and take him deep into Iuz's territory. Everyone will assume this is Iuz's plot, but Iuz's forces are after the hags too to get their hands on their prisoner. The hags are actually delivering a sacrifice to a blackwater hag in the Cold Marshes. In exchange for the sacrifice, the blackwater hag will stop trying to kill the other hags.
Anyone interested in working on that?
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Monday, November 27, 2006 4:13 PM
From: "LASSEK,CHRISTINA/J TEMPLE"
To: "Scott"
I'm still game, just been working on my current campaign.
That sounds good...maybe throw in some Crimson Deaths. :-) Since we're in the neighborhood, we could even involve some elements of Blackmoor...
~Jim
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:47:11 -0800 (PST)
Scott wrote:
> Hi all,
> Public interest in the new cooperative project seems to have died off already, or at least publicly. Still...
> "Aeolius" wrote:
> >In BPAA, I devised the Covyn; three hag coveys, one epic-level covey, and one leader - 13 hags in all.
>
>> As far as other hags go I've been working on a few, starting with
> the squalus. Much as a winter hag is the offspring of a greenhag and ice troll and the dune hag is born of the union between wasteland troll and greenhag, the shoal hag or squalus is parented by a greenhag and scrag.
>
>> I'm also revamping my Blackwater (new domain from Stormwrack)
> hags. Envision the remains of a slain sea hag covey, animated into a single undead creature by Blackwater. I got my inspiration for the three-made-one from this: http://www.designtoscano.com/images/us/ local/products/viewlarger/DB51037_vl.jpg Considering how many hags I am likely to unleash upon Turucambi, I think the Blackwater Hag will be [expletive deleted]-bent upon slaying her living sisters.<
> Perhaps one of these coven of hags has come to Furyondy to kidnap someone important (the Viscount of the March? his wife?) and take him deep into Iuz's territory. Everyone will assume this is Iuz's plot, but Iuz's forces are after the hags too to get their hands on their prisoner. The hags are actually delivering a sacrifice to a blackwater hag in the Cold Marshes. In exchange for the sacrifice, the blackwater hag will stop trying to kill the other hags. Anyone interested in working on that?
> ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
> Yak-Men are interested in the Viscount of the March's wife too...
Monday, November 27, 2006 4:13 PM
From: "LASSEK,CHRISTINA/J TEMPLE"
To: "Scott"
I'm still game, just been working on my current campaign.
That sounds good...maybe throw in some Crimson Deaths. :-) Since we're in the neighborhood, we could even involve some elements of Blackmoor...
~Jim
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:47:11 -0800 (PST)
Scott
> Hi all,
> Public interest in the new cooperative project seems to have died off already, or at least publicly. Still...
> "Aeolius" wrote:
> >In BPAA, I devised the Covyn; three hag coveys, one epic-level covey, and one leader - 13 hags in all.
>
>> As far as other hags go I've been working on a few, starting with
> the squalus. Much as a winter hag is the offspring of a greenhag and ice troll and the dune hag is born of the union between wasteland troll and greenhag, the shoal hag or squalus is parented by a greenhag and scrag.
>
>> I'm also revamping my Blackwater (new domain from Stormwrack)
> hags. Envision the remains of a slain sea hag covey, animated into a single undead creature by Blackwater. I got my inspiration for the three-made-one from this: http://www.designtoscano.com/images/us/ local/products/viewlarger/DB51037_vl.jpg Considering how many hags I am likely to unleash upon Turucambi, I think the Blackwater Hag will be [expletive deleted]-bent upon slaying her living sisters.<
> Perhaps one of these coven of hags has come to Furyondy to kidnap someone important (the Viscount of the March? his wife?) and take him deep into Iuz's territory. Everyone will assume this is Iuz's plot, but Iuz's forces are after the hags too to get their hands on their prisoner. The hags are actually delivering a sacrifice to a blackwater hag in the Cold Marshes. In exchange for the sacrifice, the blackwater hag will stop trying to kill the other hags. Anyone interested in working on that?
> ~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
> Yak-Men are interested in the Viscount of the March's wife too...
Friday, January 28, 2011
Re: [greytalk] Re: Knights of the Watch
Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:30 AM
From: "Chris Anderson"
To: "Marc-Tizoc González"
Cc: greytalk@canonfire.com
I've always envisioned Ket as being culturally like the Seljuk Turks. Tusmit, Ekbir, and Zeif would be more like the Arabic cultures of Baghdad circa 800-1000AD. Ull is the Mongol equivalent (I confess ... the city of Ilkhan did that for me) and the Paynims are the moral equivalent of the Empire of Tamerlane for me, sans Samarkand.
For me, Ket, Bissel, and Veluna would have much the same tensions that Byzantium and the Turks had... not because of religion, but because of competing cultures. Which would make Bissel the Outremer of Keoland... except that we have no crusades. :-)
Personally, I think the idea of a Crusade from the Flanaess into Baklunish lands is silly, unless somehow the Suloise remembered their history, got organized, and got seriously mad. Mad in both meanings of the term, too.
So, it would never happen.
-- Chris
On 3/19/07, Marc-Tizoc González wrote:
Thanks to all for responding. This level of historical information is one of GreyTalk's strengths.
Rafu mentioned that the comparison between civilized Bakluna and the Ottoman Empire is off and suggested comparing the Baklunish to pre-Ottoman Arabs is better.
He and Chris Anderson also distinguished the factors of Earth's Crusades and the sociopolitical situation between the Kingdom of Keoland, Veluna, and Ket. It's interesting that an Oerthly crusade seems unlikely given Keoland's failure to hold what it tried to conquer during its historical expansionism.
In contrast, the uncivilized Bakluni nomads have twice invaded substantial regions of the Flanaess.
MTG
Raffaele Manzo < raffaele.manzo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why did many of the Crusades seem to originate in kingdoms of France and
> England? Is that historically inaccurate?
Historically accurate or not, I think we tend to get such an impression because those two kingdoms were the two largest unified political entities within Roman Catholic Europe during most of the Middle Ages (the two which stand out resembling "nations" to our modern eyes).
As an aside, since you mentioned the Crusades... I believe the Knights of the Watch have something of the (historical Crusades-era) Templars. Templar Knights were "soldier monks" tasked with defending the small Christian "kingdoms" in the Holy Land - a shard of Western Europe surrounded by Arab nations. In a sense, if you think of "greater Keoland area" states as a Western Europe, and of Bakluni as Arabs, then you've got Western Europe and Near East sharing a long border - longer than any Holy Land kingdom was large (though nearly impassable mountain ranges do help) - and the Watchers patrolling it. Of course, you can only draw so much similarities... You won't have any "Crusades" in the Flanaess, at least not "Watcher-nations vs
Baklunish states" Crusades. Real world Crusades were born from politically opposed peoples *not* sharing a geographical border, but sharing a distant cultural heritage which brought both sides to hold a certain place as "holy". If you look ad Baklunish states vs. Gran March, Keoland etc. you're looking at politically opposed peoples who
*do* share a border, but having no common cultural heritage whatsoever (a much more common situation in the majority of real-world conflicts as well).
Oh, yes... and I would *not* liken the Bakluni to the Ottoman Empire. Pre-Ottoman Arabs is a much closer call, I believe.
____
Rafu
(the gamer formerly known as "Lord Raphael")
http://victordraconem.blogspot.com
From: "Chris Anderson"
To: "Marc-Tizoc González"
Cc: greytalk@canonfire.com
I've always envisioned Ket as being culturally like the Seljuk Turks. Tusmit, Ekbir, and Zeif would be more like the Arabic cultures of Baghdad circa 800-1000AD. Ull is the Mongol equivalent (I confess ... the city of Ilkhan did that for me) and the Paynims are the moral equivalent of the Empire of Tamerlane for me, sans Samarkand.
For me, Ket, Bissel, and Veluna would have much the same tensions that Byzantium and the Turks had... not because of religion, but because of competing cultures. Which would make Bissel the Outremer of Keoland... except that we have no crusades. :-)
Personally, I think the idea of a Crusade from the Flanaess into Baklunish lands is silly, unless somehow the Suloise remembered their history, got organized, and got seriously mad. Mad in both meanings of the term, too.
So, it would never happen.
-- Chris
On 3/19/07, Marc-Tizoc González
Thanks to all for responding. This level of historical information is one of GreyTalk's strengths.
Rafu mentioned that the comparison between civilized Bakluna and the Ottoman Empire is off and suggested comparing the Baklunish to pre-Ottoman Arabs is better.
He and Chris Anderson also distinguished the factors of Earth's Crusades and the sociopolitical situation between the Kingdom of Keoland, Veluna, and Ket. It's interesting that an Oerthly crusade seems unlikely given Keoland's failure to hold what it tried to conquer during its historical expansionism.
In contrast, the uncivilized Bakluni nomads have twice invaded substantial regions of the Flanaess.
MTG
Raffaele Manzo < raffaele.manzo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why did many of the Crusades seem to originate in kingdoms of France and
> England? Is that historically inaccurate?
Historically accurate or not, I think we tend to get such an impression because those two kingdoms were the two largest unified political entities within Roman Catholic Europe during most of the Middle Ages (the two which stand out resembling "nations" to our modern eyes).
As an aside, since you mentioned the Crusades... I believe the Knights of the Watch have something of the (historical Crusades-era) Templars. Templar Knights were "soldier monks" tasked with defending the small Christian "kingdoms" in the Holy Land - a shard of Western Europe surrounded by Arab nations. In a sense, if you think of "greater Keoland area" states as a Western Europe, and of Bakluni as Arabs, then you've got Western Europe and Near East sharing a long border - longer than any Holy Land kingdom was large (though nearly impassable mountain ranges do help) - and the Watchers patrolling it. Of course, you can only draw so much similarities... You won't have any "Crusades" in the Flanaess, at least not "Watcher-nations vs
Baklunish states" Crusades. Real world Crusades were born from politically opposed peoples *not* sharing a geographical border, but sharing a distant cultural heritage which brought both sides to hold a certain place as "holy". If you look ad Baklunish states vs. Gran March, Keoland etc. you're looking at politically opposed peoples who
*do* share a border, but having no common cultural heritage whatsoever (a much more common situation in the majority of real-world conflicts as well).
Oh, yes... and I would *not* liken the Bakluni to the Ottoman Empire. Pre-Ottoman Arabs is a much closer call, I believe.
____
Rafu
(the gamer formerly known as "Lord Raphael")
http://victordraconem.blogspot.com
RE: [greytalk] Looking for a Bakluni War God
Wednesday, April 4, 2007 4:40 PM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
I agree. Al'Akbar as a righteous war / sun god, and Azor'alq as the noble paladin / fakir (is that the right word?).
LGJ 3 described Azor'alq (formerly of Pinnacles fame) and connected him in very interesting ways to Al'Akbar and the Bakluni struggle against evil / darkness.
MTG
"Vest III, Robert W" wrote:
I think Al'Akbar &/or Azor'alq are probably the closest thing the Baklunish have to war gods.
Rob Bastard
Bastard Greyhawk: http://homepages.ius.edu/rvest/Greyhawk.html
Age of Worms: http://www.ghoulgamers.com/viewforum.php?f=73
Greyhawk on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greyhawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Basiliv [mailto:basiliv@cablespeed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:36 PM
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Subject: Re: [greytalk] Looking for a Bakluni War God
Official info on the Baklunish gods is sparse, so you might want to see what fan material is available.
But you can get just about everything officially available about them by consulting 2 sources:
1) The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer: This has a write-up of all of the Baklunish gods of Demigod status or higher. Each write-up is about 4 paragraphs, which is a lot more than many of them had in the past. But what I think is especially useful are the
write-ups of the Bakluni nations, and the religious conflicts add a nice dimension to this small pantheon.
2) Living Greyhawk Journal #3: This one may be questionable by some, as the real write-ups in here are of several Hero-Gods of Greyhawk. Several figures that were little more than names were turned into Hero-Gods, and a few of these are Bakluni in origin. But I mention it because, divine or not, the backgrounds of these figures provide a good addition to the religious conflicts I mentioned above.
Other than that, for official sources you've really just got several write-ups of Istus:
Greyhawk Adventures hardback
From The Ashes boxed set
1983 boxed set -- this also has a write-up of Xan Yae
I think that's about it. Hope this helps!
~Jim (Basiliv)
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:14 -0400
"Aluvial" wrote:
> I'm looking for information about Baklunish gods.
> Especially a war god if any.
>
> I know that the Suel got a special writeup at some point... I was
>wondering about the Bakluni.
>
> Aluvial
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
I agree. Al'Akbar as a righteous war / sun god, and Azor'alq as the noble paladin / fakir (is that the right word?).
LGJ 3 described Azor'alq (formerly of Pinnacles fame) and connected him in very interesting ways to Al'Akbar and the Bakluni struggle against evil / darkness.
MTG
"Vest III, Robert W"
I think Al'Akbar &/or Azor'alq are probably the closest thing the Baklunish have to war gods.
Rob Bastard
Bastard Greyhawk: http://homepages.ius.edu/rvest/Greyhawk.html
Age of Worms: http://www.ghoulgamers.com/viewforum.php?f=73
Greyhawk on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greyhawk
-----Original Message-----
From: Basiliv [mailto:basiliv@cablespeed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:36 PM
To: greytalk@canonfire.com
Subject: Re: [greytalk] Looking for a Bakluni War God
Official info on the Baklunish gods is sparse, so you might want to see what fan material is available.
But you can get just about everything officially available about them by consulting 2 sources:
1) The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer: This has a write-up of all of the Baklunish gods of Demigod status or higher. Each write-up is about 4 paragraphs, which is a lot more than many of them had in the past. But what I think is especially useful are the
write-ups of the Bakluni nations, and the religious conflicts add a nice dimension to this small pantheon.
2) Living Greyhawk Journal #3: This one may be questionable by some, as the real write-ups in here are of several Hero-Gods of Greyhawk. Several figures that were little more than names were turned into Hero-Gods, and a few of these are Bakluni in origin. But I mention it because, divine or not, the backgrounds of these figures provide a good addition to the religious conflicts I mentioned above.
Other than that, for official sources you've really just got several write-ups of Istus:
Greyhawk Adventures hardback
From The Ashes boxed set
1983 boxed set -- this also has a write-up of Xan Yae
I think that's about it. Hope this helps!
~Jim (Basiliv)
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:14 -0400
"Aluvial" wrote:
> I'm looking for information about Baklunish gods.
> Especially a war god if any.
>
> I know that the Suel got a special writeup at some point... I was
>wondering about the Bakluni.
>
> Aluvial
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