Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project

Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Saturday, December 2, 2006 5:21 PM
From: "David Argall"
To: "Marc-Tizoc González" , greytalk@canonfire.com

> let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and
> incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have
> the adventure being with the PCs traveling from
> Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow
> travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of
> pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that
> features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of
> Devarnish.
>
> On their way and well within the Archclericy, the
> pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I
> suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold
> antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to
> take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron
> Hills or the Gnarley Forest?
>
Now a few negatives to consider.

If we start with goblins, going down to kobolds is just wrong. Our kobolds are supposed to be nuisance monsters, not something that might test the party if
they can handle goblins, on worgs yet. We need to move up the hd chain to orcs, gnolls...

We are talking about goblins on worgs [cr2] leading the party to lamias [cr6] Unless we just flood the scene with unacceptable numbers of goblins, this means the party will find one encounter a cakewalk, or the adventure a deathtrap. Maybe both.

This is a trial effort by somewhat unskilled labor. That means we need to limit the new stuff. Anything new is a risk anyway and we will just be asking to misjudge these new monsters, again making the adventure too easy or hard. As much as we can, we should stick to generic.

Yours for less government

David Argall

Re: Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project

Re: [greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Saturday, December 2, 2006 10:57 AM
From: "Marc-Tizoc González"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com

I'm happy to continue using the GreyTalk listserv, since this was one of my first and most frequent forum in which to contribute. I mentioned the CF! fora and the GreyChat because those places have much more active contributors, and some of them have specifically stated their reasons for eschewing GreyTalk.

Regarding Jim's suggestion to use the EEG, I'm happy to do so because I've translated the "Malgoth" that Greg Vaughn introduced (and Wizards incorporated in the Hordes of the Abyss) into an aspect or avatar of the EEG, which forgot its origin and developed independent sentience in my Shadows on the March campaign. As I've imagined and campaigned it so far, the Malgoth in Istivin is being "countered" by the drow expatriates of House Eilservs (information not yet discovered by my PCs).

However, I think that later on, the GreyChat will be useful for the project because recorded realtime communication is highly efficient. Regarding JZ's objections, I think they were always misplaced due to his personal inability to accept criticism. As anyone whose texts have been edited knows, the ability to accept criticism does not come naturally but rather is a process of socialization and recognition of the importance of one's audience.

Finally, let's focus on my "Adventure 1" idea, and incorporate my and Scott's suggestions. Let's have the adventure being with the PCs traveling from Bissel into Veluna, escorting (informally as fellow travelers or formally as caravan guards) a group of pilgrims on their way to a unique temple that features Delleb as a saint of Raqo in the city of Devarnish.

On their way and well within the Archclericy, the pilgrims are raided by the worg-riding goblins I suggested (adapting Scott's suggestion of kobold antagonists). Do you then prefer the goblins to take the noble captive (and others) into the Kron Hills or the Gnarley Forest?

MTG

Scott wrote:

Hi all,

Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>1. Whether to use GreyTalk for our development, or instead to request a dedicated message board folder on Canonfire!, such as the one used for the Gran March Project;<

I would not participate on Canonfire! directly. The whole point of this was to re-energize the Greytalk list! But if people wanted to work on it on Canonfire!, I would post my feedback here and anyone could make use of it as they saw fit.

>and 2. Whether to discuss the project more via the GreyChat, either at its regularly scheduled Thursday evening meeting, or at another time.<

I couldn't make that, especially not at the regular time, and I fear anyone left out of the chats would feel cut out of the brainstorming loop (remember Zavoda's anti-chat rants?).

>I'd like some more public discussion and in particular, specific comments on ideas I suggested.

>For example, Scott suggested that we shift the first adventure's start site from Bissel to Veluna. I'm fine with that change although I proposed Bissel to account for a poster's (Basiliv?) preference to include ancient Baklunish culture and also because placement in Bissel lends itself better to shifting toward the Quag Lake region that at least two posters indicated interest in.<

A worthwhile reason to keep the first adventure focused in Bissel. I suppose I am biased by preferring Veluna as a setting.
>However, I have some old material on Devarnish, a walled town that the FtA era Flanaess map introduced. Devarnish is relatively near the Kron Hills and has been mentioned as part of the area the Keoland occupied in several old documents. I forget if this was in Joe Katzman's old histories or one of its permutations, e.g., Kirt Wackman's OJ article (and its earlier versions), or Samwise's histories, or Gary Holian's writings.<

I don't recognize the name, but hopefully someone will and come forward.

>Regarding Scott's other ideas about stopping an ancient goblin / kuo-toa alliance, I'm intrigued but have little to comment, except that it comes across as featuring higher level magics, e.g., a gate.<

The gate would not be accessible, and only backstory info until, perhaps, the third adventure.

>Thinking about it more, I think it unlikely that goblins and kuo-toa would ally, especially with their respective devotion to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp, two gods not known for their alliance (although I like the idea that another Power might be at work).<

That's how desperate things got in the final days of the Hateful Wars (though, if you believe Living Greyhawk tournaments, the Lorridges are still full of giants!). I like Jim's suggestion, from another post, about the Elder Elemental God having a hand in this.

>Regarding the Horned Society connection, I'd suggest that this agent knew of the historical alliance and then visited the Lorridges to seek its remnants after receiving such orders from the coalescing Hierarchs in Greyhawk City.<

Much better than what I suggested.

>Overall, however, I suggest that Scott proposed a new adventure idea. I think the real trick of starting a collaborative project will be to agree to a basic outline for the adventure. Right now, we're probably still in the brain-storming phase.<

Perhaps I did, but I don't mind anything I threw out there being vetoed or overwritten. The important thing is to keep sharing more stuff, even if it is tangental to what is currently being discussed. Any ideas that can't be used "now" might be shifted into the next adventure or the one after that.

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project

[greytalk] Re: Greytalk Cooperative Project
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:05 PM
From: "Scott"
To: greytalk@canonfire.com

Hi all,

Marc-Tizoc wrote:
>As I count ‘em, six ideas have been contributed:[snipped]

Can this guy organize or what?

I agree we should keep to, at most, three linked adventures. If we can actually pull that off as a group, THEN we could get more ambitious. I also think we will have more participation if, instead of splitting writing chores up evenly, we simply repost what we have so far with something(s) new added each time, so that everyone has the chance to flesh out any part of the adventure, and more and more levels of detail are slowly added.

>Adventure 1: The PCs are raided by worg-riding goblins while traveling on a road in Bissel. The PCs best the goblins, but some NPC traveling companions are taken captive as the goblins flee. Following their trail, the PCs enter the nearby hills and find the goblins’ lair, which is based in old (Oeridian or Flan) ruins. The dungeon beneath the ruins is controlled by lamia(s) (noble?), which dominate the goblins.

>If successful, the PCs recover their traveling companions, learn that one of them is a nobles’ scion, and return her/him to her/his ancestral keep, thus gaining a noble patron. The PCs may also find signs that indicate the involvement of the Horned Society <

My thoughts: Can we jog this adventure across the Lorridges to Veluna? My thinking is that Bissel is more of a frontier area than Veluna and old forts are less likely to be left abandoned on the frontier. Now, in nice, safe Veluna, I could see a lot of old forts from the Hateful Wars being left abandoned. Who needs them now?

In the final days of the Hateful Wars, a tribe of goblins found unexpected allies in a hidden enclave of kuo-toa. Still not expecting their coalition to turn the tide of war, they instead pooled their shamans and priests and prayed for help to Gruumsh and Blibdoolpoolp. They, or something else, answered those prayers and whisked a large group of goblins and some kuo-toa through a temporary gate to somewhere else.
Now the goblins and kuo-toa that disappeared all those years ago have come back, and returned changed. The goblins are shorter, more gargoyle-like in appearance, and have innate cantrips/glamours. The kuo-toa have become fire-based creatures, capable of generating fireballs between two or more of them. They only lacked a leader, having known whisked away with them. That was before a will-o-the-wisp found them, and remembered them. A hundred years ago, this will-o-the-wisp had been a young boggart aiding the goblins and witnessed the departure. It cannot communicate with them, but it can literally lead them as a guide. It led them to an old fort, abandoned some 60 years now, near the Lorridges and they began using it as their base. Now they are abducting people to sacrifice, hoping it will open the gate to somewhere else so more of their kind can come back.

The transmorgrified goblins and kuo-toa are becoming so successful that an agent of the Horned Society has already sought them out and found them. And the goblins could have worgs too. Thoughts?

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

Yak-Men ride "worgs," but those are giant robot wolves that fire missiles...