Saturday, April 14, 2018
Wednesday, February 21, 2018
Re: Which Religions believe in an Afterlife?
Subject: Re: [GREYTALK] Which Religions believe in an Afterlife?
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:53:41 EST
From: "Rip Van Wormer"
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
In a message dated 3/8/99 9:17:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
RVEST@IUSMAIL.IUS.INDIANA.EDU writes:
> it would be better to view the afterlife in the context of pantheons
I don't know how important pantheons are in the Flanaess. In regions dominated by one ethnicity, like (the Duchy of) Urnst, the Tilvanot, and Tenh, I would say very, but in other areas a variety of pantheons might be mixed in unusual ways. Basically, each region would have a different mix of beliefs, and you're right to assume that only one or two of the local deities would preside over death.
> Nerull - The Reaper not only squelches the fire of life, he also judges the dead sends them to their
> punishment/ reward
Nerull rewards people? I still say that Allitur is a better choice for judge of the Flan.
> Istus - I see the Bakluni as believing more along the lines of reincarnation is a lot like the big goddess-figures of the Near East: Astarte, Ianna, etc. In really ancient days, the dead of those people were sent to generic Sheol-style underworlds, but by Roman times the place was filled with
astrology cults from Persia (the Magi), and reward-punishment afterlives influenced by Mithraism. I'm not quite sure what was going through the heads of the devotees of Cybele, but it probably had something to do with promised immortality.
The doctrine of transmigration of the soul came to Greece and Rome from India via Egypt (if you trust Herodotus). It could possibly fit into Baklunish society, as an undercurrent if nothing else.
> Rao - I see him as shepherding the souls of good in his "Peace & Serenity" aspect. If he is Flan > (again, I don't recall), he rules the GH "Elysian Fields"
Incabulos is "common" (to most areas). Rao is Flan, but I think the Elysian fields fit better with Pelor, unless Pelor pulls his faithful into the sun.
> If Rao IS Flan, then Pelor really has no need to be involved in the business of Death.
I'd rather that Rao and Pelor aren't worshipped in the same regions; their portfolios overlap too much. It's much neater if Rao is common to the Flan tribes of the West, and the Pelor/Nerull dichotomy limited to the east and north. The exception would of course be high-traffic central areas like Greyhawk and Dyvers where many ethnicities mingle, and recent introductions
like the Raostafari (grin) paladins in the southern Great Kingdom.
Do you think chaotic gods would defer to Wee Jas? I understood they didn't get along.
> Akwamon - Len Lakofka's sea - god. See Procan. (Anyone notice how much this guy's name >sounds like that of a DC comic's character?)
Sitting on a park bench. Eyeing little girls with bad intent. Snot dripping from his nose. Greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes. Hey Akwamon!
Akwamon, my friend, don't go away I need thee. You poor old sod, you see it's only me...
and so on.
The others are fine.
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:53:41 EST
From: "Rip Van Wormer
Reply-To: The GREYtalk Discussion List
In a message dated 3/8/99 9:17:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
RVEST@IUSMAIL.IUS.INDIANA.EDU writes:
> it would be better to view the afterlife in the context of pantheons
I don't know how important pantheons are in the Flanaess. In regions dominated by one ethnicity, like (the Duchy of) Urnst, the Tilvanot, and Tenh, I would say very, but in other areas a variety of pantheons might be mixed in unusual ways. Basically, each region would have a different mix of beliefs, and you're right to assume that only one or two of the local deities would preside over death.
> Nerull - The Reaper not only squelches the fire of life, he also judges the dead sends them to their
> punishment/ reward
Nerull rewards people? I still say that Allitur is a better choice for judge of the Flan.
> Istus - I see the Bakluni as believing more along the lines of reincarnation is a lot like the big goddess-figures of the Near East: Astarte, Ianna, etc. In really ancient days, the dead of those people were sent to generic Sheol-style underworlds, but by Roman times the place was filled with
astrology cults from Persia (the Magi), and reward-punishment afterlives influenced by Mithraism. I'm not quite sure what was going through the heads of the devotees of Cybele, but it probably had something to do with promised immortality.
The doctrine of transmigration of the soul came to Greece and Rome from India via Egypt (if you trust Herodotus). It could possibly fit into Baklunish society, as an undercurrent if nothing else.
> Rao - I see him as shepherding the souls of good in his "Peace & Serenity" aspect. If he is Flan > (again, I don't recall), he rules the GH "Elysian Fields"
Incabulos is "common" (to most areas). Rao is Flan, but I think the Elysian fields fit better with Pelor, unless Pelor pulls his faithful into the sun.
> If Rao IS Flan, then Pelor really has no need to be involved in the business of Death.
I'd rather that Rao and Pelor aren't worshipped in the same regions; their portfolios overlap too much. It's much neater if Rao is common to the Flan tribes of the West, and the Pelor/Nerull dichotomy limited to the east and north. The exception would of course be high-traffic central areas like Greyhawk and Dyvers where many ethnicities mingle, and recent introductions
like the Raostafari (grin) paladins in the southern Great Kingdom.
Do you think chaotic gods would defer to Wee Jas? I understood they didn't get along.
> Akwamon - Len Lakofka's sea - god. See Procan. (Anyone notice how much this guy's name >sounds like that of a DC comic's character?)
Sitting on a park bench. Eyeing little girls with bad intent. Snot dripping from his nose. Greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes. Hey Akwamon!
Akwamon, my friend, don't go away I need thee. You poor old sod, you see it's only me...
and so on.
The others are fine.
Saturday, February 17, 2018
Re: 3ed bastardation of gods....
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:33:23 -0800
From: Eric Van
Subject: Re: 3ed bastardation of gods....
Ummm...where's Incabulos?
I know Nerull and Hextor usually get the limelight, but that's why I liked Incabulos so much.
Ah well.
Eric VdW
--- sander wrote:
> Well, just you all knew - it is from the same site the holds the "vote".
> There is a tid-bit called 3ed gods. The table looks like this:
>
> God's name Portfolio Align. Domains
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> Heironeous Valor LG Good, Law, War
> Moradin Dwarves LG Earth, Good, Law, Protection
> Yondalla Halflings LG Good, Law, Protection
> Ehlonna Woodlands NG Animal, Good, Plant, Sun
> Carl* Gnomes NG Good, Protection, Trickery
> Pelor Sun NG Good, Healing, Strength, Sun
> Corellon* Elves CG Chaos, Good, Protection, War
> Kord Strength CG Chaos, Good, Strength, Luck
> Wee Jas Death & Magic LN Death, Law, Magic
> St Cuthbert Retribution LN Law, Strength, Protection, Destruction
> Boccob Magic N Knowledge, Magic, Trickery
> Fharlanghn Roads N Luck, Protection, Travel
> Obad-Hai Nature N Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water
> Olidammara Thieves CN Chaos, Luck, Trickery
> Hextor Tyranny LE Destruction, Evil, Law, War
> Nerull Death NE Death, Evil, Trickery
> Vecna Secrets NE Evil, Knowledge, Magic
> Erythnul Slaughter CE Chaos, Evil, Trickery, War
> Gruumsh Orcs CE Chaos, Evil, War
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> * Carl's and Correllon's names shortened by me. They still have their full
> names.
>
> My only comment - if the table is true - is "You screwed it up, bastards!".
>
> There are way too many gods with trickery in the domain. Also:
>
> * Olidammara's portfolio is thieves? Everybody hit that designer who
> read way too much conan instead of paying attention to Greyhawk. Also,
> suddenly music and wines and spirits are not something in his domain? Bad.
>
> * Boccob has now a domain of trickery? Oh no, all boccobs priest -
> supposed to be grave and considerate people - seem to have left and become
> Zagig's followers...
>
> * Who is the real god of magic? It seems as if all three - Boccob, Wee Jas
> and Vecna are contesting for the position...
>
> * Ehlonna has lost half-elves (of all things!) and gained sun...
>
> * Obad-Hai now has way in-appropriate elemental spheres...
>
> * Erythnul is apparently majorly screwed up if his spheres are really as
> seen above
>
> * There is a domain of GOOD!!!! And similarily the others, like Evil,
> chaos and law, but apparently *NOT* Neutrality!
>
> * Why the hell had they to bring in Vecna?
>
> Sander
>
> There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future -
> these are all just illusions.
From: Eric Van
Subject: Re: 3ed bastardation of gods....
Ummm...where's Incabulos?
I know Nerull and Hextor usually get the limelight, but that's why I liked Incabulos so much.
Ah well.
Eric VdW
--- sander
> Well, just you all knew - it is from the same site the holds the "vote".
> There is a tid-bit called 3ed gods. The table looks like this:
>
> God's name Portfolio Align. Domains
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> Heironeous Valor LG Good, Law, War
> Moradin Dwarves LG Earth, Good, Law, Protection
> Yondalla Halflings LG Good, Law, Protection
> Ehlonna Woodlands NG Animal, Good, Plant, Sun
> Carl* Gnomes NG Good, Protection, Trickery
> Pelor Sun NG Good, Healing, Strength, Sun
> Corellon* Elves CG Chaos, Good, Protection, War
> Kord Strength CG Chaos, Good, Strength, Luck
> Wee Jas Death & Magic LN Death, Law, Magic
> St Cuthbert Retribution LN Law, Strength, Protection, Destruction
> Boccob Magic N Knowledge, Magic, Trickery
> Fharlanghn Roads N Luck, Protection, Travel
> Obad-Hai Nature N Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water
> Olidammara Thieves CN Chaos, Luck, Trickery
> Hextor Tyranny LE Destruction, Evil, Law, War
> Nerull Death NE Death, Evil, Trickery
> Vecna Secrets NE Evil, Knowledge, Magic
> Erythnul Slaughter CE Chaos, Evil, Trickery, War
> Gruumsh Orcs CE Chaos, Evil, War
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> * Carl's and Correllon's names shortened by me. They still have their full
> names.
>
> My only comment - if the table is true - is "You screwed it up, bastards!".
>
> There are way too many gods with trickery in the domain. Also:
>
> * Olidammara's portfolio is thieves? Everybody hit that designer who
> read way too much conan instead of paying attention to Greyhawk. Also,
> suddenly music and wines and spirits are not something in his domain? Bad.
>
> * Boccob has now a domain of trickery? Oh no, all boccobs priest -
> supposed to be grave and considerate people - seem to have left and become
> Zagig's followers...
>
> * Who is the real god of magic? It seems as if all three - Boccob, Wee Jas
> and Vecna are contesting for the position...
>
> * Ehlonna has lost half-elves (of all things!) and gained sun...
>
> * Obad-Hai now has way in-appropriate elemental spheres...
>
> * Erythnul is apparently majorly screwed up if his spheres are really as
> seen above
>
> * There is a domain of GOOD!!!! And similarily the others, like Evil,
> chaos and law, but apparently *NOT* Neutrality!
>
> * Why the hell had they to bring in Vecna?
>
> Sander
>
> There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future -
> these are all just illusions.
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